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This Sport is Corrupt from Top to Bottom

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Anonymous

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I've honestly had my fill with this sport.

Whether it be the authorities - the cyclists - doctors - A/B samples - Armstrong/Landis

Get to Falkirk the lot of you.

Cycling is now akin to WWF.

At least I know where I stood with EPO!

I'm flummoxed by the mere mind-boggling changes in the attitude of everything involved.
 
Apr 19, 2010
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Silly boy, it's no different to any other sport.
Try competing in sport yourself, it stops you caring so much about what football team beats who or what cyclist dopes.
I honestly feel sorry for people who get so into watching other people play sports while sitting on their butts all day/evening.
 
It has to get worse before it'll get better. Just wishing it away and forgetting about it won't help matters. You have to root it all out. And rooting it all out is going to hurt a lot of people, destroy a lot of reputations, and put the sport through the mill.

The sport is, despite the cynicism of the Clinic, getting cleaner. It's being dragged kicking and screaming through the cleaning up process, sure, and it's a very slow process that has only taken baby steps to date, which is why plenty of doping is still rife. The tearing up of the mandrake root of idols is a pretty huge step, and it has to be done properly to ensure progress is actually made. And it's going to, like the proverbial mandrake root, kill everything within earshot when this step is taken. But it is necessary if you genuinely want the sport to clean up, and not just want the doping stories to stop.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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happychappy said:
Silly boy, it's no different to any other sport.
Try competing in sport yourself, it stops you caring so much about what football team beats who or what cyclist dopes.
I honestly feel sorry for people who get so into watching other people play sports while sitting on their butts all day/evening.
Agreed!

I feel the same way about those who post kitty avatars. Cats make for good eating, you have a farm?
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Rogge on the ropes

Sergey&#174 said:
I've honestly had my fill with this sport.
happychappy said:
Silly boy, it's no different to any other sport.
Libertine Seguros said:
The sport is, despite the cynicism of the Clinic, getting cleaner.
Mon Feb 14 03:33pm EST | Déjá vu → Despite the past history, the IOC's response to the newest allegation was as feeble as ever. Organization president Jacques Rogges said of the matter:

"Definitely, if there is a discrepancy it must be solved. We had the situation where sanctions were taken when the truth emerged. I can say that in this case, which I don't know in detail, definitely, we would urge both parties to come up with the truth and then decisions will be taken. As I said I will check with my department."
Oh, you're going to ask to come up with the truth, are you? The same accused of doctoring?
What do they expect C to say? "You got us, we lied?" If they're going to take the accused's word for it, why not stop all drug testing and just ask athletes if they're cheating?


Source: (http://sports.yahoo.com/D-j-vu-China-accused)

292 Comments on this article WoW Show: Newest First Oldest First Highest Rated Most Replied Post a Comment Comments 1 - 25 of 292 >>>> must read
.
 
Jul 6, 2009
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Sergey® said:
I've honestly had my fill with this sport.

Whether it be the authorities - the cyclists - doctors - A/B samples - Armstrong/Landis

Get to Falkirk the lot of you.

Cycling is now akin to WWF.

At least I know where I stood with EPO!

I'm flummoxed by the mere mind-boggling changes in the attitude of everything involved.
ok cool good go away no need for this thread delete account post no more find other sport go away. some are not naive really go away from cycling have a good life peace.
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
The sport is, despite the cynicism of the Clinic, getting cleaner.
I agree with almost all of your post, but this particular line probably would read better if you said
The sport is, partly due to the cynicism of the Clinic, getting cleaner
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Sergey® said:
I've honestly had my fill with this sport.

Whether it be the authorities - the cyclists - doctors - A/B samples - Armstrong/Landis

Get to Falkirk the lot of you.

Cycling is now akin to WWF.

At least I know where I stood with EPO!

I'm flummoxed by the mere mind-boggling changes in the attitude of everything involved.
Too bad there's not a sub-forum on a cycling website where we could discuss these various issues.

What was the point of this thread again? :rolleyes:
 
Libertine Seguros said:
It has to get worse before it'll get better. Just wishing it away and forgetting about it won't help matters. You have to root it all out. And rooting it all out is going to hurt a lot of people, destroy a lot of reputations, and put the sport through the mill.

The sport is, despite the cynicism of the Clinic, getting cleaner. It's being dragged kicking and screaming through the cleaning up process, sure, and it's a very slow process that has only taken baby steps to date, which is why plenty of doping is still rife. The tearing up of the mandrake root of idols is a pretty huge step, and it has to be done properly to ensure progress is actually made. And it's going to, like the proverbial mandrake root, kill everything within earshot when this step is taken. But it is necessary if you genuinely want the sport to clean up, and not just want the doping stories to stop.
I never understand the notion that the sport is getting cleaner. It might be, but how would anyone on the outside know? If the number of positives declines, that could be because riders are getting better at beating the tests. If the number of positives increases, that could be because the tests are getting better at catching dopers.

The best evidence probably comes from comparing power data in the present to that in the past. I'm a big fan of Science of Sport for that reason. But as they will be the first to admit, times up certain climbs, etc., can depend on so many other factors besides raw power that it is always tricky to draw conclusions. Certainly there is a substantial error margin, which can obscure a lot of doping or non-doping.

But what I really object to is the notion that ultimately, if certain people try hard enough, doping will be eradicated. This ignores the extremely powerful incentive to win by any means possible, combined with accelerating technologies that virtually assure dopers will always be ahead of the tests. I see it as a no-win (forget the pun or irony) situation. The cleaner the peloton becomes, the greater the advantage of even a minor level of doping. Conversely, the more widspread doping is, the harder it is to beat tests while having a significant advantage over other dopers.

This results, IMHO, in classical cyclical behavior (much like that of deer populations, which expand when wolves are scarce. The expanding population provides more food, the wolf population expands, and the deer population crashes. The wolves starve for lack of food, and the cycle starts over again). So we see phases when doping seems to be greater, and phases when it seems to be less. This does not mean that we are on a path to eventual eradication.

As a scientist, I doubt very much that any new technologies will prevent doping. They might control it, restrain it within certain limits. The 50% HT rule has arguably done this, and the biopassport, too. But they certainly haven't "rooted out" doping. I think the only way that could be done is either a) a radical change in human nature (maybe gene doping with Bassons' genes?); or b) getting money out of the sport to take away the incentive to win (but that would also require a major change in human nature).
 
How do people know the sport is getting cleaner.

In the last few months weve had 3 of the great gc riders, Contador Eze and Ricco found doping.

Then you have guys like Andrew and Frank who everyone knows are doping, Samu Sanchez who defends dopers with "just let em ride", Basso and Vino, returing to former glories after "cleaning themselves up", suspicious performances from the likes of Menchov , Sastre and Evans flying past known dopers as if they werent there, and the most famous doper of all time, returning to finish a gt on the podium at the age of 38.

So why is the sport clearning up?

They said the sport was cleaning up in 99. Then came the Armstrong years. They said the sport was cleariing up in mid 2000's, then came 3 TDF's of suspension.

But this time, the sport is really cleaning up. honest:eek:
 
Jun 9, 2010
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mmmmmm this ppl when they said this kind of things think in other sports like football or basketball? when they saw those sports they think the same? "Ohhh football or basketball are full of dopers and stuff!"?

Cuz I dont... maybe Im totally aware that the sport is not clean but I dont care and just want to see a good spectacle? or I think that the world is not perfect so cycling - football - basket are not perfect and whatever I just want to enjoy seeing them... I dont know...

For me is kinda weird read comments that say something like "Hey I'm done with cycling! is full of dopers and *** and stuff..."... i just think "DID YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE SPORT IS CLEAN????? REALLY?" "WTF? do you live in a bubble? or what?"

We can dream with a clean sport but for that it'll need years to be it...
 
Jul 9, 2009
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The Hitch said:
How do people know the sport is getting cleaner.

In the last few months weve had 3 of the great gc riders, Contador Eze and Ricco found doping.

Then you have guys like Andrew and Frank who everyone knows are doping, Samu Sanchez who defends dopers with "just let em ride", Basso and Vino, returing to former glories after "cleaning themselves up", suspicious performances from the likes of Menchov , Sastre and Evans flying past known dopers as if they werent there, and the most famous doper of all time, returning to finish a gt on the podium at the age of 38.

So why is the sport clearning up?

They said the sport was cleaning up in 99. Then came the Armstrong years. They said the sport was cleariing up in mid 2000's, then came 3 TDF's of suspension.

But this time, the sport is really cleaning up. honest:eek:
No it really really is now. Just ask Wigans who has gone from attacking dopers to defending them.;)
 
Jun 13, 2010
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Sergey® said:
I've honestly had my fill with this sport.

Whether it be the authorities - the cyclists - doctors - A/B samples - Armstrong/Landis

Get to Falkirk the lot of you.

Cycling is now akin to WWF.

At least I know where I stood with EPO!

I'm flummoxed by the mere mind-boggling changes in the attitude of everything involved.
Frankly, at least when you watch pro wrestling you know exactly what you are watching/buying for your money. Pro wrestlers look like boy scouts compared to pro cyclists.
 
The Hitch said:
How do people know the sport is getting cleaner.

.......

But this time, the sport is really cleaning up. honest:eek:
Yeah it doesn't feel like it's cleaning up at all. Just seems like riders are easily beating the tests. Plus, the reaction of riders to what has been going on doesn't instil much confidence. Add to that the evidence we keep hearing and seeing about corruption in the UCI + McQuaid being a ****.
 
Sep 16, 2010
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The goal by Wayne Rooney this weekend may have been the best sport highlight for 2011. Not sure what he is on but I want some.....lol.
 
Sergey® said:
I've honestly had my fill with this sport.

Whether it be the authorities - the cyclists - doctors - A/B samples - Armstrong/Landis

Get to Falkirk the lot of you.

Cycling is now akin to WWF...
happychappy said:
Silly boy, it's no different to any other sport.
Try competing in sport yourself, it stops you caring so much about what football team beats who or what cyclist dopes.
I honestly feel sorry for people who get so into watching other people play sports while sitting on their butts all day/evening.
Right now, Sergey, you are about where I was at about 4 years ago when I gave up on following the pro races. So, like happychappy I just concentrated on riding. Now I'm back into the media side of it realizing while competitive cycling has it's problems, other sport also has their problems (as happyc points out) except that we don't hear much about the problems in other sport. Mainly because other sports tend to stick their head in the sand... at least compared to cycling. So from that perspective, maybe things in cycling aren't so bad after all with all the effort to try to tackle the problem. It's not perfect for sure, but at least many in cycling are trying to make it better. You know... to keep it from becoming WWF ;).

BTW... what the crap's Falkirk???
 
Aug 10, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
It has to get worse before it'll get better. Just wishing it away and forgetting about it won't help matters. You have to root it all out. And rooting it all out is going to hurt a lot of people, destroy a lot of reputations, and put the sport through the mill.

The sport is, despite the cynicism of the Clinic, getting cleaner. It's being dragged kicking and screaming through the cleaning up process, sure, and it's a very slow process that has only taken baby steps to date, which is why plenty of doping is still rife. The tearing up of the mandrake root of idols is a pretty huge step, and it has to be done properly to ensure progress is actually made. And it's going to, like the proverbial mandrake root, kill everything within earshot when this step is taken. But it is necessary if you genuinely want the sport to clean up, and not just want the doping stories to stop.
It will never get better. It will never be rooted out. Wait until genetic doping kicks in. Pro cycling is just a filthy circus.
 
I think the sport is cleaning up, not in the amount of dopers but in the amount of dope they can get away with. From a logical point of view, if the threshold keeps being reduced we'll reach a point where doping isn't worth the risk of getting caught for the benefit it brings. That's the theory anyway. It stands to reason that, as that threshold diminishes, less riders will dope, even if the top GC contenders will keep at it for as long as possible.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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hrotha said:
I think the sport is cleaning up, not in the amount of dopers but in the amount of dope they can get away with. From a logical point of view, if the threshold keeps being reduced we'll reach a point where doping isn't worth the risk of getting caught for the benefit it brings. That's the theory anyway. It stands to reason that, as that threshold diminishes, less riders will dope, even if the top GC contenders will keep at it for as long as possible.
this argument could be valid to a point but as all theories it misses the complexity of the issue of doping, more specifically, that many doping agents are designer drugs or research products completely unknown to the testers.


there is no way to set a threshold if you dont know even what a substance you're dealing with.
 
Apr 13, 2010
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python said:
this argument could be valid to a point but as all theories it misses the complexity of the issue of doping, more specifically, that many doping agents are designer drugs or research products completely unknown to the testers.


there is no way to set a threshold if you dont know even what a substance you're dealing with.
I think hrotha is more pointing to indirect measures, like the markers in blood profiling...
 
Sep 25, 2009
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JPM London said:
I think hrotha is more pointing to indirect measures, like the markers in blood profiling...
if it was about a blood profiling, then 'reducing threshold theory' is particularly inapplicable because the way the uci profiling is supposed to work is opposite of setting thresholds for detection...for example, a 50% hct limit is an outdated threashold that individual blood profiling was supposed to replace.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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may be ure using wrong terms ? but where is you assurance that you still cant do what was possible before ?
 

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