To Dope or not to Dope - would you?

May 26, 2011
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so here's an interesting 'clinic' conumdrum i'd welcome your collective thoughts on...

In 2012 product ‘X’ is not on any lists of banned substances, it’s a undoubtedly a drug – indeed it’s been synthetically produced in a lab in Europe - but as it’s not been ‘discovered’ yet it’s not named and therefore banned by any of the various sporting & governmental federations & authorities. To that effect is there is also no such test for ‘X’ that can be used by any authorities. In effect; if you can get your hands on ‘X’ and use it correctly (and safely) then the chances are that you can reap the serious rewards, with very little chance of detection, or side effects. Fame and Fortune are yours.

Now i ask you all the following:

- If such a product as ‘X’ existed, would you take it – knowing it would give you that advantage, but also rationalising that as it was not ‘banned’, it was not in effect cheating?
- What do you think would happen to you if ‘X’ was discovered in you backdated test samples that had been taken when this Drug was not on the banned lists, but was subsequently banned?

Just curious what peoples answers would be to the above....

Thanks all,

A.
 
May 26, 2010
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Alex76 said:
so here's an interesting 'clinic' conumdrum i'd welcome your collective thoughts on...

In 2012 product ‘X’ is not on any lists of banned substances, it’s a undoubtedly a drug – indeed it’s been synthetically produced in a lab in Europe - but as it’s not been ‘discovered’ yet it’s not named and therefore banned by any of the various sporting & governmental federations & authorities. To that effect is there is also no such test for ‘X’ that can be used by any authorities. In effect; if you can get your hands on ‘X’ and use it correctly (and safely) then the chances are that you can reap the serious rewards, with very little chance of detection, or side effects. Fame and Fortune are yours.

Now i ask you all the following:

- If such a product as ‘X’ existed, would you take it – knowing it would give you that advantage, but also rationalising that as it was not ‘banned’, it was not in effect cheating?
- What do you think would happen to you if ‘X’ was discovered in you backdated test samples that had been taken when this Drug was not on the banned lists, but was subsequently banned?

Just curious what peoples answers would be to the above....

Thanks all,

A.
Making a deal with the devil is a two way street. Except he collects twice.
 
Hell no. a) I'm afraid of needles, b) the true benchmark isn't the banned list, it's your conscience. It always knows what is truly "banned"., and c) you never know what all that crap can do to you in the long run.
 
Chances are, the substance is pre-categorized by the WADA list anyways, listing it as dope before it was even invented. It's artificial, it's not legalized as med, it endagers or enhances health/performance, it's dope. Whatever your conscience says, it's dope.
 
Oct 4, 2011
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I would like to think my answer would be no, but the facts are there that suggest a large% of people will when faced with the same conundrum. Plenty of psychological tests have asked people these types of questions and gone on to show that when faced with a situation the people will do something different to what they predicted they would do.

So while I would like to say an absolute no, I cant because Im not in the situation and nobody can really know what they would do unless they are there and faced with the decision.

Still 100% anti -doping ...just cant answer with 100% assurance.
 
Jan 18, 2011
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It would be better if you directed this question to people who actually race, and not to the recreational rider, who might sign up for one or two races a year, at most.

As for your answer
Hell yes, unless studdies show that "X" might kill you.

If "X" is later banned, then you stop using it.
.
.
 
May 26, 2011
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Sure - this can be directed at those who actually race in the big boys leagues, or those who only dream when their smashing the pedals on the way to work.
 
Jul 29, 2009
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If I were a professional cyclist then I would follow in the long illustrious line of my predecessors by doping as much as I could feasibly get away with.

Thankfully I'm not a professional and I wouldn't want any of my friends or faimly to be one either. But if they were then then I would expect them to dope.
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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SirLes said:
If I were a professional cyclist then I would follow in the long illustrious line of my predecessors by doping as much as I could feasibly get away with.

Thankfully I'm not a professional and I wouldn't want any of my friends or faimly to be one either. But if they were then then I would expect them to dope.
Well said - and for me that is almost the real question, would you be a pro in the first instance when this dilemma will follow you around.
I know a lot of talented riders who returned home from racing in Europe very disillusioned.

To answer the OP - I would like to think no.
However cyclings problem is that very few teams, DSs and others in authority put the safeguards in place to encourage people to say no.

If you become a Pro, then cycling is no longer the fun and joyous event it was - it is your job, your livelihood, where you are told what races your doing and given a role, with a constant worry and pressure of being on contract with no guarantee of it being renewed.
Under those circumstances I cannot answer the question.
 
Dec 18, 2009
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Only those who've sacrificed all their lives aiming to be or currently racing as pros can answer that question.
 
Mar 22, 2011
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Though provoking question, although i suspect that the responses you get from people here would not be representative of what you'd get if you asked it of stagiares or professionals (or any high level athlete). The reason being that to perform at a high level also requires a completely different mindset (psychological profile) from the man on the street so they would be driven by very different factors when presented the question.
 
Alex76 said:
... but as it’s not been ‘discovered’ yet it’s not named and therefore banned by any of the various sporting & governmental federations & authorities. To that effect is there is also no such test for ‘X’ that can be used by any authorities. .
And that means automatically that the drug has not been tested under phased, controlled conditions. So, there is no "safe" to the drug's use.

The same question from a different angle, are you ready to allow secret, uncontrolled experimentation on children, minors, and adults?

A similar question: Are you okay doping your kids? You aren't a medical professional either. you are Soccer Mom/Dad wanting to help Janie get on the A Team. Lots of people are okay with the idea as long as it's not them. Bring it home and the issue becomes very clearly defined.

As another post mentioned, LOTS of talented riders have walked away because they weren't okay with the doping culture. Too bad most humans aren't raised similarly.

BTW, some parents are willing to put their kids in some awful situations. A very tragic/funny scene in the movie Bruno where the main character is casting for children for some Bruno spectacular and the parent is asked if the baby could be 10lbs lighter by the time they go into production and the parent said "Yes" without skipping a beat.
 
nevada said:
Only those who've sacrificed all their lives aiming to be or currently racing as pros can answer that question.
I think this is true, but I think I wouldn't have.
I don't cheat. I allready hate it when people cheat during a simple game and they consider the cheating just to be fun. To me it spoils the game.
 
function said:
The reason being that to perform at a high level also requires a completely different mindset (psychological profile) from the man on the street so they would be driven by very different factors when presented the question.
So true! Check Floyd Landis' response to the doping issue. He didn't have a problem with doping at all. He just used his experience to exact some revenge. Well played Sir!
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Alex76 said:
- If such a product as ‘X’ existed, would you take it – knowing it would give you that advantage, but also rationalising that as it was not ‘banned’, it was not in effect cheating?
Just for the sake of clarity, I think it's worth pointing out that the way the rules are written there is absolutely no ambiguity on this one. This is cheating, period.

As to the broader question of "would you dope in this situation", everyone has to make their own choice. I've opted not to, and I'm OK with that decision. I've made some choices that resulted in me not having to chose, mainly not going to Europe when I had the chance. The reality that doping was/is a part of the culture at the very top level of the sport was definitely a factor, though is wasn't the only one (or even the biggest one). The other parts Dr. M mentioned were the real reasons.
 
Apr 10, 2009
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nevada said:
Only those who've sacrificed all their lives aiming to be or currently racing as pros can answer that question.
I don't agree with this. You either choose to or not to, and as evidenced by the many amateurs that have been caught doping, it isn't just a "pro" problem.

My answer is no, I would not dope. Simple as that.
 
Mar 26, 2009
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Even though I race at a such a mediocre level that I'm lucky if my prize money pays for my hotel room at the race, I still say that I absolutely would take drug X. It is a legal substance that would help me perform, just like taking a multivitamin, protein supplements, or even just fully caffeinated coffee. If the cost was not prohibitive I don't know a single fellow racer who would NOT take drug X.

The second question is trickier because I can think of at least two conflicting precedents. On one hand runners like Lasse Viren, but also the USA cycling team at the 1984 Olympics, were known to be blood-doping their way to success. The practice was not banned at the time, and the legacy of those athletes remained intact. On the other hand we have baseball hero Mark McGwire, who used the legal supplement androstenedione to achieve the fabled home-run record, but who was treated as a cheater by both the media and the general American public. The American public seemingly couldn't handle that their "pure sport" of baseball was tainted by the use of even a legal drug.
 
Dec 18, 2009
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slowoldman said:
I don't agree with this. You either choose to or not to, and as evidenced by the many amateurs that have been caught doping, it isn't just a "pro" problem.

My answer is no, I would not dope. Simple as that.
And there are pros who said no and many amateurs that don't.

I'm not sure that I would have your strength and I don't judge those that chose otherwise.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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I would experiment jotting down my data, of course.

Dr.Mas's last paragraph, is the real answer.
 
Aug 10, 2009
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131313 said:
Just for the sake of clarity, I think it's worth pointing out that the way the rules are written there is absolutely no ambiguity on this one. This is cheating, period.

This.

Prohibited List:

S0. Non-Approved Substances
Any pharmacological substance which is not addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the List and with no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use (e.g drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development or discontinued, designer drugs, veterinary medicines) is prohibited.
 
Mar 22, 2011
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nevada said:
And there are pros who said no and many amateurs that don't.

I'm not sure that I would have your strength and I don't judge those that chose otherwise.
I wouldn't say it's a "pro" problem either, it's just that the professionals have _more_ people who fit a certain psychological profile. You can still have the same psychological profile as a pro and be an amateur, it's just a different distribution.
 
May 26, 2011
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So what do we think.....

Anyone used their extensive budgets and resources to full capacity and found 'something', and feeling very confident about it....?
 

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