To Mr. LeMond

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May 11, 2009
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Well, I know sometimes people hang out here, but enough is enough. I have been reading both sides of the continued process, and think now Greg that you have crossed a line.

You were right about Armstrong. Don't be a **** about it.

You obviously feel passionately about cycling, that is a good thing. However, there are positive ways to push that passion to produce benefits. There are also ways to use that passion to destroy things.

So when I read one of the icons of cycling swearing and having publically published what appears to be a rant ... all I can do is sigh. You would do well to note that Mark Twain wrote many letter that were never sent. He was intelligent enough to know when his blood was up, and even more intelligent in allowing there to be a .. check if you will (namely his wife), to stop the angry letters from going out.

What you wrote about the UCI may have some points, but they are lost among the swearing and clear demonstration of anger .. temper may be a better word. Such a display is ill suited to you Greg.

Instead, I will remind you of what did bring success and what brought you years, and years of frustration. The many public barbs traded between yourself and Mr. Armstrong accomplished not much more than the spreading of mutual bad blood. However, your involvement in and support to an organized process wherein evidence was systemically gathered and presented ... brought you personally, resounding success.

Please take a step back, and reconsider your options. Unlike many of us who have a passion for cycling, you have a chance to do a world of good. I believe that both we, and you, would do better if you invested more of your passion is something besides a profanity laced tirade and the demand for yet another head.

Its time to move forward. You were right. Demanding heads will not fix what ailes us, we have our scalps. What we need now is solutions and systems, and, IMHO, recommending more police actions, and attempting to create the independent anti-doping process (without the profanity) would be great places to start.

Passion is a good thing. Positively directed passion is what this sport needs from its leaders. Please, for all our sakes, help calm rather than inflame. Help us move forward so we can get back to watching the worlds greatest athletes take on the world's toughest sport.
 
Oct 16, 2012
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gree0232 said:
Demanding heads will not fix what ailes us, we have our scalps.
By chance, did you notice how Pat McQuaid ranted his way through the media after Monday? This head isn’t due to demand, it’s due to removal. No reasonable progress with him in the game.
 
Sep 5, 2009
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Suggest this thread be closed. Should be on appropriate LeMond thread currently under discussion, if at all.
 
Velodude said:
Suggest this thread be closed. Should be on appropriate LeMond thread currently under discussion, if at all.
then report it.

not that it will do much good... the mods seem to be letting the loons run the asylum.

must say, though, i'm quite enjoying the Ignore feature.
 
Oct 10, 2012
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gree0232 said:
Demanding heads will not fix what ailes us, we have our scalps. What we need now is solutions and systems, and, IMHO, recommending more police actions, and attempting to create the independent anti-doping process (without the profanity) would be great places to start.
McQuaids and verbruggen's heads are 2 heads that have to go. Can anybody still seriously think that the sport is in good hands when those two control the governance of cycling? Since they seem determined to not resign it is down to the bigger personalities in the sport to try and effect change. It's revolution that is needed not evolution.

It's the obvious passion in GLs statement that make it real and easy to empathise with.
 
thirteen said:
then report it.

not that it will do much good... the mods seem to be letting the loons run the asylum.

must say, though, i'm quite enjoying the Ignore feature.
gree0232
This message is hidden because gree0232 is on your ignore list.
It is possibly the best single feature of this forum.;)

I can only imagine what doofus wrote. I think I'll leave it that way.:D
 
May 11, 2009
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fat_boy_fat said:
By chance, did you notice how Pat McQuaid ranted his way through the media after Monday? This head isn’t due to demand, it’s due to removal. No reasonable progress with him in the game.
That may indeed be true. Offering a emotional, profane tirade is not going to produce that result.

Its bad enough when you and I doing it, but some people are above that by dint of their position, etc.

LeMond has the ability to be a positive or negative influence. Profanity and anger are not going to accomplish much.

I suppose they make great headlines, offer up some nice drama, but really, I watch this sport because of the sport. If I want a melodrama, I'll pick up one of those dime store novels with Fabio on the cover.

End State: change in leadership at UCI.

Methods to get there:

A: Swearing at Pat McQuaid.

B: gathering evidence, generating consensus, producing options, offering solutions.

We've spend almost two decades screaming at other over Lance. One side won, one side lost. And we did a incredible amount of damage in the process.

There are things that worked in that process, and things that did not. Lets ALL learn some lessons, and so what works .. for the sport and not the tabloids please.

Mr. LeMond, please.
 
May 11, 2009
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ontheroad said:
McQuaids and verbruggen's heads are 2 heads that have to go. Can anybody still seriously think that the sport is in good hands when those two control the governance of cycling? Since they seem determined to not resign it is down to the bigger personalities in the sport to try and effect change. It's revolution that is needed not evolution.

It's the obvious passion in GLs statement that make it real and easy to empathise with.
And profanity and temper tantrum will accomplish that?

You do understand that the disagreement here is less about end state and moe about methodology.

If McQuaid has to go because he's .. acting like a tool. How exactly does acting like a tool generate anything that will remove said tool?

Angry antics is not what got Lance. It was evidence.
 
May 11, 2009
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thirteen said:
i know!

isn't it lovely?

no idea either :D
Not as much utility as the report function is.

Gents, if you do not want to participate, then do not.

If you follow me around to tell me that you are ignoring me, you are not ignoring me. You are trolling.

No one is forcing you to behave in such a manner.

the discussion is about methods. If you don't like it? Go elsewhere.
 
This is hilarious. One of the handbag ladies who tirelessly defended Armstrong has now become the reasonable advocate for reform. I don't think I have seen a more miraculous conversion since Joe Papp turned himself into an advocate against doping.
 
yay, gree-troll is back. the completely discredited gree-troll who posted 400+ times in support of armstrong as usada threatened. but whose stomach got a little weak when the facts were out.

fact is, lemond has been right literally about everything since the beginning. so i'm listening to him. while you, girlfriend, are back on ignore.
 
May 11, 2009
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BroDeal said:
This is hilarious. One of the handbag ladies who tirelessly defended Armstrong has now become the reasonable advocate for reform. I don't think I have seen a more miraculous conversion since Joe Papp turned himself into an advocate against doping.
One, the serial trolls do not have to follow posters around.

If you don;t want to discuss, get out of the way and let any of the thousands of other posters without giant chips on their shoulder have a discussion without the mindless insults and supercilious trolling.

Apparently, I see where Greg gets his guidance to be a ****.
 
May 11, 2009
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Big Doopie said:
yay, gree-troll is back. the completely discredited gree-troll who posted 400+ times in support of armstrong as usada threatened. but whose stomach got a little weak when the facts were out.

fact is, lemond has been right literally about everything since the beginning. so i'm listening to him. while you, girlfriend, are back on ignore.
And once again, that report function works wonderfully.
 
gree0232 said:
One, the serial trolls do not have to follow posters around.

If you don;t want to discuss, get out of the way and let any of the thousands of other posters without giant chips on their shoulder have a discussion without the mindless insults and supercilious trolling.

Apparently, I see where Greg gets his guidance to be a ****.
You have no credibility. You spent years defending fraud in the sport. The sport got to where it is because of people like you protecting the cheats. No one will buy your new role as a reformer.
 
May 11, 2009
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Zweistein said:
Heard that before.
And yet we still have to.

Again, I agree with end state. There is no way that the UCI could not have known about this stuff. Certainly not with WADA and riders actively trying to give it to them.

However, there are ways to actually effect change. LeMond is correct. However, just like with Armstrong, there are things that work toward producing an end state, and things that do not.

LeMond swearing produces ... LeMond swearing and allows his adversaries to paint him as a disinterested zealot.

I think anyone who has followed cycling for any length of time knows that is false. LeMond obviously cares a great deal. Its just a matter, hopefully, of helping him help himself.
 
May 11, 2009
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BroDeal said:
You have no credibility. You spent years defending fraud in the sport. The sport got to where it is because of people like you protecting the cheats. No one will buy your new role as a reformer.
There is a subject, and there is you avoiding it.

There is also a report button.

Please take your personal Crusade elsewhere. I really don;t need you to be a **** to me to have a discussion about whether GL swearing or not is helpful.

The trolling was bad enough over LA, you got 'em. Now, your just being a ****.

And despite what you claim, clearly not ignoring me.

That is the last you will get B, all else gets reported.
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
13,250
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gree0232 said:
Well, I know sometimes people hang out here, but enough is enough. I have been reading both sides of the continued process, and think now Greg that you have crossed a line.

You were right about Armstrong. Don't be a **** about it.

You obviously feel passionately about cycling, that is a good thing. However, there are positive ways to push that passion to produce benefits. There are also ways to use that passion to destroy things.


So when I read one of the icons of cycling swearing and having publically published what appears to be a rant ... all I can do is sigh. You would do well to note that Mark Twain wrote many letter that were never sent. He was intelligent enough to know when his blood was up, and even more intelligent in allowing there to be a .. check if you will (namely his wife), to stop the angry letters from going out.

What you wrote about the UCI may have some points, but they are lost among the swearing and clear demonstration of anger .. temper may be a better word. Such a display is ill suited to you Greg.

Instead, I will remind you of what did bring success and what brought you years, and years of frustration. The many public barbs traded between yourself and Mr. Armstrong accomplished not much more than the spreading of mutual bad blood. However, your involvement in and support to an organized process wherein evidence was systemically gathered and presented ... brought you personally, resounding success.

Please take a step back, and reconsider your options. Unlike many of us who have a passion for cycling, you have a chance to do a world of good. I believe that both we, and you, would do better if you invested more of your passion is something besides a profanity laced tirade and the demand for yet another head.

Its time to move forward. You were right. Demanding heads will not fix what ailes us, we have our scalps. What we need now is solutions and systems, and, IMHO, recommending more police actions, and attempting to create the independent anti-doping process (without the profanity) would be great places to start.

Passion is a good thing. Positively directed passion is what this sport needs from its leaders. Please, for all our sakes, help calm rather than inflame. Help us move forward so we can get back to watching the worlds greatest athletes take on the world's toughest sport.
See - theres your problem.
Lance fans always accused LeMond as having an agenda against only Lance - and now LeMond has stood up (yet again) to the bullies who are still around - it was never just Lance.


You have repeated that Greg should use his "passion" to "positive effect" - yet you have not said what that would be??

Except that his use of profanity seems to upset you .... yet you used profanity yourself - noted.
 
Oct 8, 2012
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gree0232 said:
Well, I know sometimes people hang out here, but enough is enough. I have been reading both sides of the continued process, and think now Greg that you have crossed a line.

You were right about Armstrong. Don't be a **** about it.

You obviously feel passionately about cycling, that is a good thing. However, there are positive ways to push that passion to produce benefits. There are also ways to use that passion to destroy things.

So when I read one of the icons of cycling swearing and having publically published what appears to be a rant ... all I can do is sigh. You would do well to note that Mark Twain wrote many letter that were never sent. He was intelligent enough to know when his blood was up, and even more intelligent in allowing there to be a .. check if you will (namely his wife), to stop the angry letters from going out.

What you wrote about the UCI may have some points, but they are lost among the swearing and clear demonstration of anger .. temper may be a better word. Such a display is ill suited to you Greg.

Instead, I will remind you of what did bring success and what brought you years, and years of frustration. The many public barbs traded between yourself and Mr. Armstrong accomplished not much more than the spreading of mutual bad blood. However, your involvement in and support to an organized process wherein evidence was systemically gathered and presented ... brought you personally, resounding success.

Please take a step back, and reconsider your options. Unlike many of us who have a passion for cycling, you have a chance to do a world of good. I believe that both we, and you, would do better if you invested more of your passion is something besides a profanity laced tirade and the demand for yet another head.

Its time to move forward. You were right. Demanding heads will not fix what ailes us, we have our scalps. What we need now is solutions and systems, and, IMHO, recommending more police actions, and attempting to create the independent anti-doping process (without the profanity) would be great places to start.

Passion is a good thing. Positively directed passion is what this sport needs from its leaders. Please, for all our sakes, help calm rather than inflame. Help us move forward so we can get back to watching the worlds greatest athletes take on the world's toughest sport.

Geez! What a f-ing stupid post. Anyone putting their reputation on the line, and Greg has a much better reputation than that **** Armstrong... Anyone putting their reputation on the ine and asking for Pat McQuaid to resign is alright the eyes of all except for the foolish.
 
Jul 15, 2010
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Big Daddy said:
Geez! What a f-ing stupid post. Anyone putting their reputation on the line, and Greg has a much better reputation than that **** Armstrong... Anyone putting their reputation on the ine and asking for Pat McQuaid to resign is alright the eyes of all except for the foolish.
Silence is golden. As is the ignore list.
 
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