Tour de France Tour de France 2021, Stage 15: Céret – Andorre-la-Vieille, 191.3 km

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I like how Kirby thinks literally every tactical move Ineos make is brilliant, regardless of outcome.
I, too, am trying to figure out why the commentators are so taken with Ineos having an armada around Carpaz, with Pogi 'isolated,' when it's already clear that it won't do any good. I mean, what's the play now? It's clear the yellow jersey is in no danger. The Ineos show is getting old.
 
Yup. Which is the problem when UAE are allowed to just tap out a soft tempo for a lot of the stage. But if a team like Ineos starts riding early to make it more difficult they get accused of being tactically inept by the geniuses on here…
And they have been 'tactically inept.' What have they got to show for the fact that UAE is weak as a team and they are so strong? Nada.
 
But it doesn't hurt the rivals if they follow you while you attack into a headwind...

Didn't you ser how the riders in the break almost turned around to not be at the front at a certain point a couple of kilometers from the top?

It would have been suicide. Unfortunately.
As it stands today He is off the podium. All people in Colombia and Ecuador were talking about the altitude. So what advantage was that?

BTW, to your second point, did you see how Quintana took advantage at that moment of heavy head wind and high altitude and hit them where it hurts?
 
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Feb 1, 2020
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I, too, am trying to figure out why the commentators are so taken with Ineos having an armada around Carpaz, with Pogi 'isolated,' when it's already clear that it won't do any good. I mean, what's the play now? It's clear the yellow jersey is in no danger. The Ineos show is getting old.
Yes I agree. Ineos looks a bit ridiculous at this point.
 
At least its a top 5. Movistar have been riding to protect Mas' top 15 place all tour.
Mas is like a Kruijswijk, he tends to ride better as the race goes on. They've still got reason to believe he can podium. I don't think he will as things stand, but I think he may well finish around the same position he did last year. And there's a whole week of racing to go, people can always crash out, get sick and so on, and he is a guy who has podiumed GTs in the not very distant past. It's not quite IAM riding to protect Mathias Fränk's 14th place, that Pierre Rolland complained about a few years ago.
 
...rides like this will set off rounds of people creating expectations that if he doesn't live up to he will get bashed for.
I watched a couple of his jumps..and you could see that there was some response..but after his 3rd surge and he got a gap..he did many things classic mountain bike..he made his gap enough to be out of sight.. Valverde is a great racer..full stop. Kuss sat down,settled down and stayed on top of the gear..guy has both a sit down and stand up cadence that is high,smooth and fluid..but as a skinny guy he did lots of incredible things, standing up to get it turned over and get on top of a big gear..and he did some serious great,great,fantastic turning and braking..you saw a few times Valverde airing it out, coming in to the corners too fast..had it been a drag race I think Valverde would fly past Kuss on flat ground or in a straight downhill..Valverde wins..but today Sepp Kuss showed is a great bike handler..I have now watched the last 25k again.
.I obviously love both of these guys..I love the fact that at 200 years old Alejandro Valverde is contesting a stage in the tour..dropping other elite riders like a dirty diaper!!watching Sepp shred downhill as well as uphill w the best riders in the world is something fun..awesome!!
I see Sepp Kuss's riding style as being annoyed with drop handlebars..I could be wrong but I believe he would have won today w a straight pair of mountain bike bars..his climbing style is hypnotic..
I remember watching Alberto Contador swivel as he climbed..doing like a hip swing,I am riding a horse kind of thing..
Watching Pogocar climb looks like he is going to get groceries..the guy is relaxed and powerful in equal measures..guys who waste calories bobbing up and down I hope are done..these last few days have been silky smooth..
And if nobody else says..Vin Diesel Nibali looked good today..
I am giddy about what Uran must be thinking..for sure a great week ahead..
 
Despite the criticism here, I have to say that I really liked the way Ineos went yesterday.
I was actually expecting a pretty boring stage, but Ineos made it interesting with their driving.
Putting riders in a breakaway and then using them as a relay station is one of the most interesting tactical possibilities that cycling offers and I'm all the more happy every time it works.
The added value for Ineos yesterday was limited in the end, but they certainly put on a good show. I hope to see more of it in the next 3 days.
 
Despite the criticism here, I have to say that I really liked the way Ineos went yesterday.
I was actually expecting a pretty boring stage, but Ineos made it interesting with their driving.
Putting riders in a breakaway and then using them as a relay station is one of the most interesting tactical possibilities that cycling offers and I'm all the more happy every time it works.
The added value for Ineos yesterday was limited in the end, but they certainly put on a good show. I hope to see more of it in the next 3 days.
They tried. If they don't try they are riding for fourth spot which makes little sense. with a week to go.
 
Despite the criticism here, I have to say that I really liked the way Ineos went yesterday.
I was actually expecting a pretty boring stage, but Ineos made it interesting with their driving.
Putting riders in a breakaway and then using them as a relay station is one of the most interesting tactical possibilities that cycling offers and I'm all the more happy every time it works.
The added value for Ineos yesterday was limited in the end, but they certainly put on a good show. I hope to see more of it in the next 3 days.
one thing i dont like is when they are trying to get yellow while keeping podium in mind, thats not whole ineos issue, they did what they could under those circumstances, but carapaz cannot attack just once, thats most likely not gonna work

im not sure how much does ineos care about podium and how much does carapaz care about podium, but i would rather see him blow himself up than attack once...and then nothing, they are not gonna beat pogacar by being conservative, if you want to get 5 minutes (which is already almost impossible) its time to go big or go home - it especially applies to ineos and carapaz because they are established rich team and carapaz doesnt have to prove his worth with tdf podiums, he is already a GT winner and has another podium in Vuelta so both squad and rider could afford to blow it up

i can understand vingegaard as a non established rider to get that first big result, ineos however have the luxury of swinging and missing - right now they are looking at 4th gc place at best (uran,vingegaard and pogacar are better at TT) with 7 minutes down on yellow...whats the point? thats barely a footnote on Ineos palmares
 
one thing i dont like is when they are trying to get yellow while keeping podium in mind, thats not whole ineos issue, they did what they could under those circumstances, but carapaz cannot attack just once, thats most likely not gonna work

im not sure how much does ineos care about podium and how much does carapaz care about podium, but i would rather see him blow himself up than attack once...and then nothing, they are not gonna beat pogacar by being conservative, if you want to get 5 minutes (which is already almost impossible) its time to go big or go home - it especially applies to ineos and carapaz because they are established rich team and carapaz doesnt have to prove his worth with tdf podiums, he is already a GT winner and has another podium in Vuelta so both squad and rider could afford to blow it up

i can understand vingegaard as a non established rider to get that first big result, ineos however have the luxury of swinging and missing - right now they are looking at 4th gc place at best (uran,vingegaard and pogacar are better at TT) with 7 minutes down on yellow...whats the point? thats barely a footnote on Ineos palmares
As you said Ineos made the best they could out of the situation.
If they wouldn´t take over the pace on the Envalira, Laengen would have led the Peleton over the pass with 15 minutes back probably and on the last climb less would have happened in the main group...
Carapaz tried, but he just wasn´t strong enough to eliminate Pogacar and Vingegaard. I think in the end he was happy that he could follow their attacks..
 
im not sure how much does ineos care about podium and how much does carapaz care about podium, but i would rather see him blow himself up than attack once...and then nothing, they are not gonna beat pogacar by being conservative
They're not going to beat Pogacar, full stop. Carapaz is fighting for the podium, but I'm not sure he's going to make it.
 
Putting riders in a breakaway and then using them as a relay station is one of the most interesting tactical possibilities that cycling offers and I'm all the more happy every time it works.
For that tactics to make sense, a rider who has men further up the road must drop his main competitors. That's something Carapaz failed to do (or he did, if you count Guillaume Martin among those). This way, they've not achieved much...
 
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