Tour de France 2025 route rumours and announcements

[YavorD]

You are convinced Vingegaard cannot beat Pogacar and be better if he is not 2 weeks in intensive care, with broken collarbone, pneumotorax, broken ribs and doing the Tour with less mass muscle.

I don't think anyone suggests Vingegaard can't be better. Pretty sure everyone knows he can be better with a proper preparation.
I guess most of the people just think that if Pogacar repeats his level from this year he'll be impossible to beat and he can also be better without a Giro in his legs.
And the former is very reasonable tbh. His PdB performance was **** ridiculous. It is nearly impossible to beat someone at that level.

 

[pman]

I am a Pogacar fan. I'd probably say he's my favorite rider (though I have a soft spot for Remco and Roglic). I am definitely not a Vingegaard or Visma fan. Yet even I think it's a massive case of present bias to think Jonas can't beat Pog at the Tour. The closest, least injured competition between the two was a few years back in Jonas first victory and honestly, that year wasn't that close.

I am not saying that Jonas is the better Tour rider, it's entirely possible that Pog has simply found a higher level but I am skeptical. I hope I am wrong and Pog crushes the Tour again but I think the gap between the two are much smaller than some of you think.

 

[houtdffan]

Pog’s not

it is the side used last time, except for that late climb detour. Pog was dropped on the main climb to Courchervel, around where Ullrich was dropped in 2000

 

[Ulle97]

With the likes of Loze being used now, do you think we'll ever see the old Courchevel climb being used again? Like the summit finish in 97, 2000 and 2005.

It's a steady 6.5% for 20k but it causes quite significant GC damage!!

 

[YavorD]

With the likes of Loze being used now, do you think we'll ever see the old Courchevel climb being used again? Like the summit finish in 97, 2000 and 2005.

It's a steady 6.5% for 20k but it causes quite significant GC damage!!

I don't think it will cause significant damage now just because it has done so 20 years ago.*

*Of course, with Pogacar and Vingegaard it could, but naturally the action should be underwhelming.

 

[Berniece]

Injured and still climbed better than 2022 and 2023. Uninjured he would have lost less time on the Col de la Bonnette stage and been closer in the TT. But he would still have lost. And don't forget Pogacar had a Giro in his legs. The gap is enormous.

What's this "Giro in his legs" narrative that's being pushed? UAE was clear that this didn't have any influence, and even helped with his form.

 

[Cookster15]

What's this "Giro in his legs" narrative that's being pushed? UAE was clear that this didn't have any influence, and even helped with his form.

UAE can say whatever PR they wish. How could the Giro not have an effect? A three week grand tour? 21 days of racing. It should not require explaining why nobody has pulled off the Giro-Tour double since 1998.

 

[Netserk]

With the likes of Loze being used now, do you think we'll ever see the old Courchevel climb being used again? Like the summit finish in 97, 2000 and 2005.

It's a steady 6.5% for 20k but it causes quite significant GC damage!!

Probably not, but I thought the same of Pla d'Adet.

 

[Cookster15]

Your a reasonable guy. Exactly what this guy said is what it is.

If Pogi gets hurt my money is on Vingegaard as he is the first in line, simple stuff especially simple since Pogacar is so much better, its laughable for anyone watching all the numbers how much better he is, if he dont get hurt, forget it the gap will just increase.



The more mountains they will do the better it will be for Pogacar that kinda goes without saying if people watched any races this year, at least it should for everyone. But then again that almost goes for all terrain so for yeah dosent really matter at the end of the day as you say, if he isnt hurt. Its not a easy task for ASO to say the least.

Overall this route seems somewhat expected its okei not spectacular and certaintly for my taste would want more going on in week 1 for sure but im sure someone else like something else but yeah overall decent it will be okei.
I personally not that it matter would love 3 mountains before Ventoux(prepare for monster NR) and hard Loze side but the Tour gonne Tour regardless, alot of suspenions adding up and most likely the sript is set anyway come week 3, like it usually is, even with this route (2TT and 3 MTF before week 3 is plenty).

These people are assuming what happened on Loze in ‘23 is relevant. It isn’t.

 

[houtdffan]

Courchervel has ALWAYS produced major time gaps, all 3 times it was used (1997, 2000, 2005)

It's a 22.3km climb at 6.6%. It's a monster HC climb even when using the old finish of the altiport instead of continuing to the Loze

 

[YavorD]

UAE can say whatever PR they wish. How could the Giro not have an effect? A three week grand tour? 21 days of racing. It should not require explaining why nobody has pulled off the Giro-Tour double since 1998.

I think it needs explaining.
If Tom Dumoulin could be 2nd and 2nd with a weak *** Sunweb team after a very hard ridden Giro it isn't as impossible as many people try to make us believe.
And the real reason is that:
1. Not many dominant GT riders tried it.
2. None of the riders who actually tried had the perfect conditions Pogacar had. Not a single meaningful crash, very easy Giro with a weak field while having the best team in the race and a Tour where his only competitor spent 2 weeks in a hospital in April.

Not taking anything from Pogacar. His level was incredible but put Froome and Contador in the same conditions (best team, easy Giro, no crashes, injured opponent) and I have no doubt they'd win it. And those 3 are the only top GT riders that actually tried it since Pantani

 

[James M]

These people are assuming what happened on Loze in ‘23 is relevant. It isn’t.

Ridding with a broken wrist for one....and the fact that Pogi has evolved into a rider completely on his own all time statistically based on his outrages numbers whole year and many more which isnt even worth the time

Should be nethless to say but ofc it isnt relevant at all yeah. Its like comparing peak Froome to now and making a case you wish for and then debate it as its a real thing.
These same people also said that he would beat him in the mountains during this Tour..And Evenepoel would win WC by alot and ignore , riders themself, team manager/trainer and even numbers which never lies at that point whats even the point?
- At one point I think its okei to just draw a line in the sand and call it as it is too if some people have a hard time being real about stuff.

Back to the route 6.5/10, could be better (especially first week for my taste) could be worse. Tour gonne Tour regardless, and by week 3 the script is set eitherway. Looking forward to another Tour hoping Roglic, Evenepoel, Vinge, Pogi and everyone gives it a go.

 

[fbjim]

My completely baseless suspicion is that Pogacar's 2024 form is one of those peaks you get once in your life and that Vingegaard will match him in 2025.

 

[fbjim]

Anyway 6.5/10 is a fair score for what is a fairly average route.

Main complaints are: I don't like MTTs, the returning MTFs are cool but not super-exciting mythic climbs like Granon or Puy de Dome, and there really should be a descent finish.

Replace the MTT with a tough sawtooth Pyrenees stage that has a finish like Aubisque/Laruns, and replace stage 20 with a 35km hilly itt and I'd be happy.

 

[RedheadDane]

Main complaints are: I don't like MTTs, the returning MTFs are cool but not super-exciting mythic climbs like Granon or Puy de Dome, and there really should be a descent finish.

Apparently, they don't want to use Puy de Dome because they can't have spectators...

 

[Berniece]

UAE can say whatever PR they wish. How could the Giro not have an effect? A three week grand tour? 21 days of racing. It should not require explaining why nobody has pulled off the Giro-Tour double since 1998.

Because it was a weak Giro, and he used it as training

 

[E_F_]

Apparently, they don't want to use Puy de Dome because they can't have spectators...

Why don't they take an exorbitant amount for train-tickets, so rich people can follow the race all the way up the climb - indoors?

 

[rallybanana]

As Ventoux returns next year, are people happy with its use as a MTF. It is very hard to use Ventoux with other climbs as there simply are none of note in the nearby hinterland.

Do you prefer when they do Ventoux twice with a downhill finish in Malaucene.... like in 2021??

I'd like to see Ventoux climbed from the Malaucene side (just for some variation). I think it was only once ever climbed from that side (in TdF) and that was in 1951.

What if it's windy?

You could have the finish in Chalet Reynard. So even if it's windy you can still climb to the top and then descent 6K to the finish without worrying about the finishing line and podium blowing away. According to the wikipedia page the Malaucene side is better sheltered from the wind.

 

[Netserk]

I'd like to see Ventoux climbed from the Malaucene side (just for some variation). I think it was only once ever climbed from that side (in TdF) and that was in 1951.

A finish at the ski station like in PN '08 could be another variation (I think they should have done that in 2021).

 

[Froome]

UAE can say whatever PR they wish. How could the Giro not have an effect? A three week grand tour? 21 days of racing. It should not require explaining why nobody has pulled off the Giro-Tour double since 1998.

The Giro had a positive effect on him. He used as a training and it worked well for the Tour where he was even stronger.

Of course he benefited from no competition in the Giro and injuried competition in the Tour, but it's part of cycling.

 

[RedheadDane]

Why don't they take an exorbitant amount for train-tickets, so rich people can follow the race all the way up the climb - indoors?

Naaah, give them to kids from local schools and/or bike clubs for free. They'll probably be much better behaved. In fact, I think that should be normal procedure every time there is limited space.

You could have the finish in Chalet Reynard. So even if it's windy you can still climb to the top and then descent 6K to the finish without worrying about the finishing line and podium blowing away.

That doesn't help the worry about the riders getting blown away.
Pretty sure they finished at Chalet Reynard in 2016.

 

[Cookster15]

1. Not many dominant GT riders tried it.

Not taking anything from Pogacar. His level was incredible but put Froome and Contador in the same conditions (best team, easy Giro, no crashes, injured opponent) and I have no doubt they'd win it. And those 3 are the only top GT riders that actually tried it since Pantani

Both Contador and Froome tried it. Both were the dominant GT riders in the peloton at the time. But the other thing we are forgetting is the gap between Pogacar and the rest of the peloton. Think about the manner of his wins after the Tour and the fact he had been winning since March (Strade Bianche) with an 81km breakaway. Neither Contador nor Froome did anything remotely close.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Giro's competition was weak but who is strong enough to challenge or give a fight to Pogacar? Some People still try to downplay Pogacar's feat. I am waiting to see other GC riders winning Giro-Tour

 

[Froome]

Giro's competition was weak but who is strong enough to challenge or give a fight to Pogacar?

Not injured competition.

 

[Berniece]

Giro's competition was weak but who is strong enough to challenge or give a fight to Pogacar? Some People still try to downplay Pogacar's feat. I am waiting to see other GC riders winning Giro-Tour

No one is downplaying it. It's the opposite, some people are saying that he wasn't even at his best at the Tour, which is plain ridiculous.