After what we saw this year I doubt it would make a difference which side of Loze they do. Pog 24 is a different beast to Pog 23. Remember what happened on Plateau de Beille and Col de la Bonette - and all with a Giro in his legs.
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Injured and still climbed better than 2022 and 2023. Uninjured he would have lost less time on the Col de la Bonnette stage and been closer in the TT. But he would still have lost. And don't forget Pogacar had a Giro in his legs. The gap is enormous.
Again? It's not true. He wasn't climbing better than in 2023.
Nevertheless, it would be easy for Vingegaard to do interviews and give 177373 excuses for the fact he lost the Tour this year, but he didn't what Pogacar did in the previous year in the interviews after the Tour because of a wrist.
I think climbing data said otherwise? eg On PdB Vingegaard was also over 2 minutes faster than Pantani's record.
Vingegaard cannot defeat Pogacar on equal terms, I am convinced of this now. That Pogacar won't be doing the Giro in 2025 closes the deal. Also don't forget Pogacar is nearly two years younger.
You are convinced Vingegaard cannot beat Pogacar and be better if he is not 2 weeks in intensive care, with broken collarbone, pneumotorax, broken ribs and doing the Tour with less mass muscle.
Don't see a problem with that. Meribel side would limit the action to the last 3 km.
That slightly easier side could prompt an action on Madeleine depending on GC situation.
Don't complain to me, complain to Richard Plugge and others. They were the ones who claimed Vingegaard wouldn't ride the Tour if he didn't think he could win it - despite those injuries. He still won't beat a fresh Pogacar in 2025. Only crashes or illness can change this.
I don't think anyone suggests Vingegaard can't be better. Pretty sure everyone knows he can be better with a proper preparation.
I guess most of the people just think that if Pogacar repeats his level from this year he'll be impossible to beat and he can also be better without a Giro in his legs.
And the former is very reasonable tbh. His PdB performance was **** ridiculous. It is nearly impossible to beat someone at that level.
I am a Pogacar fan. I'd probably say he's my favorite rider (though I have a soft spot for Remco and Roglic). I am definitely not a Vingegaard or Visma fan. Yet even I think it's a massive case of present bias to think Jonas can't beat Pog at the Tour. The closest, least injured competition between the two was a few years back in Jonas first victory and honestly, that year wasn't that close.
I am not saying that Jonas is the better Tour rider, it's entirely possible that Pog has simply found a higher level but I am skeptical. I hope I am wrong and Pog crushes the Tour again but I think the gap between the two are much smaller than some of you think.
I am not saying that Jonas is the better Tour rider, it's entirely possible that Pog has simply found a higher level but I am skeptical. I hope I am wrong and Pog crushes the Tour again but I think the gap between the two are much smaller than some of you think.
it is the side used last time, except for that late climb detour. Pog was dropped on the main climb to Courchervel, around where Ullrich was dropped in 2000
I don't think it will cause significant damage now just because it has done so 20 years ago.*
*Of course, with Pogacar and Vingegaard it could, but naturally the action should be underwhelming.
What's this "Giro in his legs" narrative that's being pushed? UAE was clear that this didn't have any influence, and even helped with his form.
Ofc the numbers did, how anyone can even twist that is pretty remarkable to be honest.
Vingegaard said it himself, Jumbo said it if you watch the documentary on youtube Jorgenson said Vingegaard was climbing better than he ever was close to before and still he wasnt evne close and that was a hard pill to swallow and yes also the numbers said it I mean how can anyone discuss that haha? It shouldnt be hard to be real at least.
But this guy said he didnt, only fitting as he also said Vingegaard would crush him in the mountains on several occasions and that Evenepoel would win the WC easy.. Funny how that goes isnt it
- personally I just find it sad above anything else.
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Your a reasonable guy. Exactly what this guy said is what it is.
If Pogi gets hurt my money is on Vingegaard as he is the first in line, simple stuff especially simple since Pogacar is so much better, its laughable for anyone watching all the numbers how much better he is, if he dont get hurt, forget it the gap will just increase.
The more mountains they will do the better it will be for Pogacar that kinda goes without saying if people watched any races this year, at least it should for everyone. But then again that almost goes for all terrain so for yeah dosent really matter at the end of the day as you say, if he isnt hurt. Its not a easy task for ASO to say the least.
Overall this route seems somewhat expected its okei not spectacular and certaintly for my taste would want more going on in week 1 for sure but im sure someone else like something else but yeah overall decent it will be okei.
I personally not that it matter would love 3 mountains before Ventoux(prepare for monster NR) and hard Loze side but the Tour gonne Tour regardless, alot of suspenions adding up and most likely the sript is set anyway come week 3, like it usually is, even with this route (2TT and 3 MTF before week 3 is plenty).
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UAE can say whatever PR they wish. How could the Giro not have an effect? A three week grand tour? 21 days of racing. It should not require explaining why nobody has pulled off the Giro-Tour double since 1998.
These people are assuming what happened on Loze in ‘23 is relevant. It isn’t.
Courchervel has ALWAYS produced major time gaps, all 3 times it was used (1997, 2000, 2005)
It's a 22.3km climb at 6.6%. It's a monster HC climb even when using the old finish of the altiport instead of continuing to the Loze
It's a 22.3km climb at 6.6%. It's a monster HC climb even when using the old finish of the altiport instead of continuing to the Loze
I think it needs explaining.
If Tom Dumoulin could be 2nd and 2nd with a weak *** Sunweb team after a very hard ridden Giro it isn't as impossible as many people try to make us believe.
And the real reason is that:
1. Not many dominant GT riders tried it.
2. None of the riders who actually tried had the perfect conditions Pogacar had. Not a single meaningful crash, very easy Giro with a weak field while having the best team in the race and a Tour where his only competitor spent 2 weeks in a hospital in April.
Not taking anything from Pogacar. His level was incredible but put Froome and Contador in the same conditions (best team, easy Giro, no crashes, injured opponent) and I have no doubt they'd win it. And those 3 are the only top GT riders that actually tried it since Pantani
Ridding with a broken wrist for one....and the fact that Pogi has evolved into a rider completely on his own all time statistically based on his outrages numbers whole year and many more which isnt even worth the time
Should be nethless to say but ofc it isnt relevant at all yeah. Its like comparing peak Froome to now and making a case you wish for and then debate it as its a real thing.
These same people also said that he would beat him in the mountains during this Tour..And Evenepoel would win WC by alot and ignore , riders themself, team manager/trainer and even numbers which never lies at that point whats even the point?
- At one point I think its okei to just draw a line in the sand and call it as it is too if some people have a hard time being real about stuff.
Back to the route 6.5/10, could be better (especially first week for my taste) could be worse. Tour gonne Tour regardless, and by week 3 the script is set eitherway. Looking forward to another Tour hoping Roglic, Evenepoel, Vinge, Pogi and everyone gives it a go.
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My completely baseless suspicion is that Pogacar's 2024 form is one of those peaks you get once in your life and that Vingegaard will match him in 2025.
Anyway 6.5/10 is a fair score for what is a fairly average route.
Main complaints are: I don't like MTTs, the returning MTFs are cool but not super-exciting mythic climbs like Granon or Puy de Dome, and there really should be a descent finish.
Replace the MTT with a tough sawtooth Pyrenees stage that has a finish like Aubisque/Laruns, and replace stage 20 with a 35km hilly itt and I'd be happy.
Main complaints are: I don't like MTTs, the returning MTFs are cool but not super-exciting mythic climbs like Granon or Puy de Dome, and there really should be a descent finish.
Replace the MTT with a tough sawtooth Pyrenees stage that has a finish like Aubisque/Laruns, and replace stage 20 with a 35km hilly itt and I'd be happy.
Apparently, they don't want to use Puy de Dome because they can't have spectators...
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