Tour de France Tour de France 2026 route rumours

[E_F_]

The climb is not located in Europe so @Netserk is totally right. In my post I didn't write "climbs in UCI Europe races" but "European climbs".

Oh, I agree. I was just pointing put the discrepancy between argument and counter.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Prudhomme is the worst thing that ahs ever happened to cylcing.

I'd take Prudhomme over Jean Marie Leblanc anyday, I don't think people remember how terrible the routes used to be. A first week full of flat stages, then the same recycled climbs in the Alps and Pyrenees, the only positive was the 100k of ITT.
Since Prudhomme has come in, the routes now have more medium mountain stages, less sprint stages, and lots of new climbs.
I agree, the lack of ITT KM's is frustrating and the overuse of short mountain stages isn't ideal, but as an overall race it's far more entertaining.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

But is Slovenia in Eastern Europe?

 

[Netserk]

No, my point is that geographic labelling isn't immutable and depends on context. The landmass something is almost always less important in any context outside of geology than political and cultural labelling.

In this cultural and political context (sport and cycling), Turkey is European. It is a European UCI nation; its races are in the Tour of Europe; and it hosts European Championships. The mountain in this context is therefore European.

the climb is a physical object outside of cycling , not defined by any social institutions

 

[Valv.Piti]

I'd take Prudhomme over Jean Marie Leblanc anyday, I don't think people remember how terrible the routes used to be. A first week full of flat stages, then the same recycled climbs in the Alps and Pyrenees, the only positive was the 100k of ITT.
Since Prudhomme has come in, the routes now have more medium mountain stages, less sprint stages, and lots of new climbs.
I agree, the lack of ITT KM's is frustrating and the overuse of short mountain stages isn't ideal, but as an overall race it's far more entertaining.

I agree, but most people do like romantizing stuff. There were 1-2 nice, hard mountain stages and long time trials, but that was literally about it. Leblanc would never make great GD's like the last 3 we have seen for example in 23, 24 and 25 and which this one in Barcelona also will be.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I'd take Prudhomme over Jean Marie Leblanc anyday, I don't think people remember how terrible the routes used to be. A first week full of flat stages, then the same recycled climbs in the Alps and Pyrenees, the only positive was the 100k of ITT.
Since Prudhomme has come in, the routes now have more medium mountain stages, less sprint stages, and lots of new climbs.
I agree, the lack of ITT KM's is frustrating and the overuse of short mountain stages isn't ideal, but as an overall race it's far more entertaining.

Absolutely. Leblanc routes were so repetitive and boring with a whole week of flat stages (and last mountains 5-7 days before the end). Prudhomme made the route more diverse.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Tonale + Gavia (2260 vertical meters) is indeed an even bigger combo than Telegraphe + Galibier (2080 vertical meters), I overlooked it. Then again, it's also about what separation between climbs is allowed: in case of the former it's 9.5 km and it case of the latter only 5 km. Finestre + Sestriere has a total of 2310 vertical meters, so the biggest (it has 11 km descent).

Continuous climbs constitute a different category though.

I think the crucial element here is that you cannot climb Galibier north without climbing Télégraphe and there are no alternative routes by which to climb Télégraphe either, therefore it is functionally part of the same climb, like the multiple ramps of Croix de Fer or Val Thorens, whereas you can climb Tonale and then continue on to Edolo, and you can climb Gavia from Ponte di Legno without going over Tonale first.

As a result I would class them as separate climbs.

Although the altitude gain is not sufficient to really be relevant here, I think Sierra Morela and Ancáres offers a bit of an anomaly here, because the only way to climb Ancáres without climbing Sierra Morela is to go over either Ancáres itself from León or Cruz de Cespedosa (ie 90% of the way up Ancáres) from the south and loop down through Balouta. If you want to climb the Galician side of Ancáres without doubling back on yourself, your only way is to go over Sierra Morela with a fairly significant descent.

 

[Bavarianrider]

You guys are completely ignoring UCI leadership here

The Tour is a much bigger Brand. Whatever the Tour wants, UCI has to folow.

 

[Red Rick]

I think the crucial element here is that you cannot climb Galibier north without climbing Télégraphe and there are no alternative routes by which to climb Télégraphe either, therefore it is functionally part of the same climb, like the multiple ramps of Croix de Fer or Val Thorens, whereas you can climb Tonale and then continue on to Edolo, and you can climb Gavia from Ponte di Legno without going over Tonale first.

As a result I would class them as separate climbs.

Although the altitude gain is not sufficient to really be relevant here, I think Sierra Morela and Ancáres offers a bit of an anomaly here, because the only way to climb Ancáres without climbing Sierra Morela is to go over either Ancáres itself from León or Cruz de Cespedosa (ie 90% of the way up Ancáres) from the south and loop down through Balouta. If you want to climb the Galician side of Ancáres without doubling back on yourself, your only way is to go over Sierra Morela with a fairly significant descent.

Do you mean Folgueiras? I've seen stage designs with Pelliceira but I don't know how feasable that road is, it seemed to be asphalted when I checked.

Anyway, I can't believe the people of the cyclingnews forum miss this monster

Spoiler

But overall my rant on Galibier isn't about stats, but entirely how it's basically empirically proven it doesn't affect racing like a monster climb, and instead the racing is much more akin a bang average HC climb.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Do you mean Folgueiras? I've seen stage designs with Pelliceira but I don't know how feasable that road is, it seemed to be asphalted when I checked.

Folgueiras is the name of the village near the summit, it's often used in Unipublic nomenclature, the actual high point of the road is Alto de la Sierra Morela (or Serra Morela in Galego).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

But overall my rant on Galibier isn't about stats, but entirely how it's basically empirically proven it doesn't affect racing like a monster climb, and instead the racing is much more akin a bang average HC climb.

There's also usually a lot of terrain after Galibier North (including false flats) and this alone discourages cyclists. Obviously cases where there was a big climb afterwards (like Alpe) pretty much eliminate any GC action on Galibier (2022 was an exception cause Visma really wanted to tire Pog and they succeeded). There's no combo like Mortirolo+Aprica or Finestre+Sestriere of course. Obviously avg. gradient of 7% is not 9-10% so drafting makes Galibier+Telegraphe easier to overcome than those mentioned monsters.

 

[vappa]

Absolutely. Leblanc routes were so repetitive and boring with a whole week of flat stages (and last mountains 5-7 days before the end). Prudhomme made the route more diverse.

F that, make the first stage a queen stage

 

[Red Rick]

There's also usually a lot of terrain after Galibier North (including false flats) and this alone discourages cyclists. Obviously cases where there was a big climb afterwards (like Alpe) pretty much eliminate any GC action on Galibier (2022 was an exception cause Visma really wanted to tire Pog and they succeeded). There's no combo like Mortirolo+Aprica or Finestre+Sestriere of course. Obviously avg. gradient of 7% is not 9-10% so drafting makes Galibier+Telegraphe easier to overcome than those mentioned monsters.

The shallow downhill wouldn't matter so much if the Galibier itself was hard enough. You can put Galibier 2022 side by side with Tourmalet 2023 and see the difference.

The sustained gradients aren't there, and the attrition element gets super overrated because when a climb gets very long it mostly just means domestiques will go slower or get wasted on sections where the team leaders are chilling.

It's a type of climb we've seen underwhelm time and time again. Bonette as penultimate climb turns into a pubcrawl (in 2 different eras). Col de la Loze sucks as a MTF without the steep section. Val Thorens was terrible in 2019.

Sure, Pogacar or Vingegaard might delete everyone else on the Galibier. But that only means the Galibier at the very least is worthy of being a cat 3 like Mur de Bretagne.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's a type of climb we've seen underwhelm time and time again. Bonette as penultimate climb turns into a pubcrawl (in 2 different eras). Col de la Loze sucks as a MTF without the steep section. Val Thorens was terrible in 2019.

Sure, Pogacar or Vingegaard might delete everyone else on the Galibier. But that only means the Galibier at the very least is worthy of being a cat 3 like Mur de Bretagne.

To put it simply, long segment at 9-10% does way more damage than long 7-8% section.

 

[Red Rick]

To put it simply, long segment at 9-10% does way more damage than long 7-8% section.

Not only that, but attrition can be a net negative if it only tires domestiques while the leaders are sleepwalking, and it may occasionally simply reduce gaps. You see it often with these very top heavy climbs like Bola del Mundo

 

[ashhutch1997]

The shallow downhill wouldn't matter so much if the Galibier itself was hard enough. You can put Galibier 2022 side by side with Tourmalet 2023 and see the difference.

You can't really compare Galibier 2022 with Tourmalet 2023, as Granon is a much, much harder climb than Cautertes. The best way to use Galibier would be Les Deux Alps.

 

[E_F_]

I fixed it, everyone1!!!1!!!!

Galibier fixed

191.9 km, +6985 m. Bike ride in Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes

ridewithgps.com

 

[Gigs_98]

I don't understand this discussion. It's about how Galibier from the north is seen as a monster climb but never produces good racing but that's jus not true, right? The 2022 and 2011 stages are two of the best TdF mountain stages of the century. Galibier north has disappointed 1 out of 4 times in the post Armstrong era, which is a great rate especially for TdF standards. Yes, the races came back together after the huge explosion on the Galibier but that doesn't make the stage boring. The stages only disappointed if you were measuring them against arbitrarily set standards instead of how entertaining they were.

 

[ashhutch1997]

I don't understand this discussion. It's about how Galibier from the north is seen as a monster climb but never produces good racing but that's jus not true, right? The 2022 and 2011 stages are two of the best TdF mountain stages of the century. Galibier north has disappointed 1 out of 4 times in the post Armstrong era, which is a great rate especially for TdF standards. Yes, the races came back together after the huge explosion on the Galibier but that doesn't make the stage boring. The stages only disappointed if you were measuring them against arbitrarily set standards instead of how entertaining they were.

2007 the race blew apart as well, with Contador's first major TDF attack, but the finish was almost 50km away so nothing stuck.

 

[Gigs_98]

2007 the race blew apart as well, with Contador's first major TDF attack, but the finish was almost 50km away so nothing stuck.

Yes but the stage was once again pretty good imo

 

[Red Rick]

You can't really compare Galibier 2022 with Tourmalet 2023, as Granon is a much, much harder climb than Cautertes. The best way to use Galibier would be Les Deux Alps.

Nothing to do with the climb that followed. Tourmalet had the boys going full gas for 12 minutes and making the top with a 2 minute gap despite being a shorter col than the Galibier, where even after doing generational attacks before they even hit the Galibier proper everyone ends up coming back.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Nothing to do with the climb that followed. Tourmalet had the boys going full gas for 12 minutes and making the top with a 2 minute gap despite being a shorter col than the Galibier, where even after doing generational attacks before they even hit the Galibier proper everyone ends up coming back.

Well, the one time we saw this side of Galibier in the current era of cycling, the top riders just did softening attacks, never going for it all and they sat up near the top of the climb. In total, I think You’re just not accepting anything other than Colle delle Finestre as a climb this far out because nearly any other climb in Cycling doesn‘t blow up the race with this much climbing left as in the Galibier stage

 

[Netserk]

had vingegaard chosen to attack the last 2 km and bridge up to van aert youd have seen the largest gaps on any mountain stage in recent memory

 

[houtdffan]

You can't really compare Galibier 2022 with Tourmalet 2023, as Granon is a much, much harder climb than Cautertes. The best way to use Galibier would be Les Deux Alps.

or continue past Le Deux Alpes and have a finish at the Jandri

 

[Red Rick]

had vingegaard chosen to attack the last 2 km and bridge up to van aert youd have seen the largest gaps on any mountain stage in recent memory

Yes, because of Van Aert, and because then suddenly false flat downhill becomes a strong benefit rather than a strong negative. Something that would apply to any pass.

Any time it's been raced full gas, the gaps on top have been completely mid. Nevermind Finestre. I think it's not even well established it's even a good HC climb outside of it's stats.

Meanwhile Pogacar collapsed after doing Galibier and he didn't even lose 3 minutes. He then collapsed on Loze and he lost 7.