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I’m beginning to miss the old forum, before Blutto and SF, among others, were banned. There was some nastiness and insults, but also some actual discussion of issues.

With regard to murder rates:

2017 Murder rate (per 100K)
NY – 3.4; London – 1.2

2018 Murders
January: NY – 18; London – 8
February: NY – 11; London – 15
March: NY – 21; London – 22

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43628494

So, yes, for two months, there have been a few more murders in London than New York (which, it should be pointed out, has a substantially lower murder rate than that of the U.S. as a whole, and which has been declining for nearly a decade). What does that mean? With such a small sample size, it’s hard to know. But if you, Lupi, are using that as evidence that we don’t need gun control, I wish you would stop beating around the bush and say so, rather than just citing two months of data, as if that ended all discussion. I could cite two months of the stock market as evidence that Trump is one of the worst economic Presidents of all time, though I wouldn’t have to stop there to make that argument.

To make it even harder to follow you, you post stuff without links. I don’t even understand the HC passage. So she’s anti-choice now?
 
Jan 20, 2016
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Merckx index said:
I’m beginning to miss the old forum, before Blutto and SF, among others, were banned. There was some nastiness and insults, but also some actual discussion of issues.

With regard to murder rates:

2017 Murder rate (per 100K)
NY – 3.4; London – 1.2

2018 Murders
January: NY – 18; London – 8
February: NY – 11; London – 15
March: NY – 21; London – 22

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43628494

So, yes, for two months, there have been a few more murders in London than New York (which, it should be pointed out, has a substantially lower murder rate than that of the U.S. as a whole, and which has been declining for nearly a decade). What does that mean? With such a small sample size, it’s hard to know. But if you, Lupi, are using that as evidence that we don’t need gun control, I wish you would stop beating around the bush and say so, rather than just citing two months of data, as if that ended all discussion. I could cite two months of the stock market as evidence that Trump is one of the worst economic Presidents of all time, though I wouldn’t have to stop there to make that argument.

To make it even harder to follow you, you post stuff without links. I don’t even understand the HC passage. So she’s anti-choice now?
When I quote someone directly, I don't need to post a link. The pussy hat march (baby killing march) and the other save the children from guns march were just get out to vote rallies for the Democrats. Nothing more, nothing less. They don't give a damn about children. They love to abort millions of them every year.

Now why do the left care so much about the stock market all of a sudden?
 
You're saying every single young person marching against guns wasn't marching for a different national mind set, but rather votes? Got proof? Need a little more than Soros donations for that one.

Well, some left look at economics. Maybe if the dispossessed homeowners of 2008 had done the same, the country might be in a slightly different place. Just a thought.

How's that bipartisan deregulation bill looking?


Preach the wisdom

'Just days after the Parkland shooting, right-wing radio show host Rush Limbaugh went so far as to say that such tragedies only occur in public schools, not private or religious schools. “That is an inescapable observation,” he said. “It’s true.” A caller on his show offered this by way of explanation: “I mean, there’s almost no rules in the public schools.”

Ted Nugent, a National Rifle Association board member, said last week on the radio that schools and the media are brainwashing students. “The lies from these poor, mushy brained children who have been fed lies and parrot lies, I really feel sorry for them,” said Nugent. “It’s not only ignorant and dangerously stupid — it’s soulless. … I’m afraid to say and it hurts me to say this, but the evidence is irrefutable: They have no soul.”

The condemnation of public schools for their ability to create such dangerous figures as the Parkland students comes at a time when conservatives more broadly are gravitating toward increased support for charter schools, which undercut liberal teacher unions and give schools much more freedom over the curriculum."

Yeah baby

"Far-right conservative attempts to weaken support for public education did not begin with the Parkland massacre. Many advocates for private and religious schools have long framed public schools as dangerous secular institutions. Even this past summer, a young listener called in to Rush Limbaugh’s show to ask why it seems like liberalism has taken over all aspects of public education. Limbaugh responded:

Whenever there is a communist invasion or revolution, the news outlets are the first things seized and then the schools and then health care. … So [leftists] make it an objective to control education, because that’s how they control minds, that’s how they control countries, that’s how they control populations."

No conspiracies there. Just solid F.A.C.T.Z
 
Re: Re:

Lupi33x said:
Unchained said:
Lupi..I think lots of the trajectories of conversation here is based on some form of American exceptionalism..it never was.
we never were.
As the world gets miniaturized by technology Americans are in all out resistance to being measured.. we are not the healthiest, we are not the most educated, happy or fit..we are not winning any infant mortality contests.

But what are panties are in a bunch about is that we are violent and have some whacked non apologetic stance about it to ourselves and others. We are currently on some stupid world concert type tour
.we are saying we kill each other and our children and we are proud of it.
Lots of Americans are embarrassed that we are fat, don't have free school or health care and that murder is common and ignored
.just some cultural boilerplate. Our president is reinforcing American exceptionalism
Rude,uneducated and blissfully lost on the art of saying sorry.
It's like buying a Gary Glitter album not because you like the music but after discovering he is a child molester..we need to reject most of Trump's behavior.. Internationally unacceptable..
His behavior is irrelevant. His actions as President speak louder and that is all we need to judge him on.
Look at countries that have free school and health care and tell me how good that school & health care actually are.

You're a socialist if you believe in those things and we'll never agree so its pointless debating political ideology. .
Hmmm

Colonial New England encouraged its towns to support free public schools funded by taxation. in the early 19th century Massachusetts took the lead in school reform, with programs designed by Horace Mann that were widely emulated across the North. Teachers were especially trained in normal schools and taught the three Rs (of reading, writing, and arithmetic) and also history and geography. Public education was at the elementary level in most places. after the Civil War, the cities began building high schools. the South was far behind northern standards on every educational measure, and gave weak support to its segregated all-black schools. However northern philanthropy and northern churches provided assistance to private black colleges across the South. Religious denominations across the country set up their private colleges. states also open state universities, but they were quite small well into the 20th century,

In 1823, the Reverend Samuel Read Hall founded the first normal school, the Columbian School in Concord, Vermont,[12][13] aimed at improving the quality of the burgeoning common school system by producing more qualified teachers.

In the mid-20th century, the rapidly increasing Catholic population led to the formation of parochial schools in the largest cities. Theologically oriented Episcopalian, Lutheran and Jewish bodies on a smaller scale set up their own parochial schools. There were debates over whether tax money could be used to support them, with the answer typically being no. From about 1876, thirty-nine states passed a constitutional amendment to their state constitutions, called Blaine Amendments after James G. Blaine, one of their chief promoters, forbidding the use of public tax money to fund local parochial schools.

States passed laws to make schooling compulsory between 1852 (Massachusetts) and 1917 (Mississippi). They also used federal funding designated by the Morrill Land-Grant Colleges Acts of 1862 and 1890 to set up land grant colleges specializing in agriculture and engineering. By 1870, every state had free elementary schools,[14] albeit only in urban centers.
 
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The copy-paste king is hard at work. One of these days he might learn to think for himself.

Isn't the truthdog guy a serial plagiarizer too? Birds of a feather LOL
 
Lupi33x said:
When I quote someone directly, I don't need to post a link.
It may not be against forum rules not to do so, but if one wants to verify the quote, and—particularly important on a politics forum—determine the context, having a link is often critical. The HC quote mentions three marches, two of which you put in bold, though the marches were for pretty much opposite reasons. If you think putting that passage in bold somehow supports the notion of a political agenda, you have to explain it further, because I’m not seeing it.

The pussy hat march (baby killing march) and the other save the children from guns march were just get out to vote rallies for the Democrats.
To the extent that any political view is associated more with one party than the other, any march tends to excite one base more than the other. It’s wildly inaccurate to claim that’s the only purpose. As one example, there are many Republican NRA members who support what the students are doing, and as another, there are many pro-choice women and men who are Republican.

Nothing more, nothing less. They don't give a damn about children. They love to abort millions of them every year.
Embryos or fetuses are not “children”. We can have a discussion about their rights vs. the rights of women who bear them, but mislabeling them is biasing the argument in favor of a certain conclusion. And since you seem to care about hundreds of thousands (not millions) of abortions every year, why do you not also care about the tens of thousands of deaths that will result from rolling back environmental regulations?

Now why do the left care so much about the stock market all of a sudden?
All those rich deep staters and neoliberals have investments, don’t they? Seriously, Trump and his supporters have been pointing to the stock market as validation of his economic measures. The most recent fall reflects a certainty that if the tariffs actually go through, a lot of American jobs are going to be lost.
 
Re: Re:

Lupi33x said:
macbindle said:
Lupi33x said:
You're quite predictable and I saw that coming.
So the BBC contradicts itself with spin after embarrassing the country. What else is new...
The facts remain, London murder rate is higher than New York's. You can call that selective stats all day it doesn't change the fact. How can it be with no guns, how can it be...
Nice utopia you've got there.
USA murder rate=4.88 per 100k citizens

UK murder rate= 0.9 per 100k citizens.

How can it be with no guns, how can it be...
Nice utopia you've got there.
Predict that did you?
Yep. We're talking about New York vs London.
I expected you would try to change the parameters because these stats sink your entire narrative.
What is my entire narrative and how has it been sunk?

You've attempted to make, or imply, a correlation between tight gun control and increased murder rate. Youve done it by comparing the murder rates of two cities in two countries (London and NY). The only thing this tells us is that you don't understand data, and more precisely how cherry-picking data to make a point whilst ignoring all the other data makes your point very easy to disprove. So no, I haven't "changed the parameters". I've given you the data in context.

USA murder rate=4.88 per 100k citizens (No gun control)

UK murder rate= 0.9 per 100k citizens (gun control)

That is the correlation. I'm not going to get into whether it is a causal relationship.

Perhaps you could tell us what the murder rates in St Louis, Detroit, Baltimore and New Orleans tell us about the relationship between gun control and murder rate?

Your "nice utopia" remark is a straw man, by the way. You probably didn't realise that.

I somehow doubt you will address these points, at least in any sort of coherent and logical fashion. We'll either be treated to your standard diversionary tactics or you won't have the honesty and courage to address them at all but will mask it by telling us that you 'haven't got time', 'already dealt with it', are 'done with this' or somesuch cowardly and evasive nonsense.
 
Re:

Lupi33x said:
The copy-paste king is hard at work. One of these days he might learn to think for himself.

Isn't the truthdog guy a serial plagiarizer too? Birds of a feather LOL
So, you clarified HRC’s agenda yet. Guns in NY/London?

Didn’t see a truthdig link tonight. Get those facts on the marches yet? How about proof that public schooling equals communism?


Birds of a feather and LOL in one sentence? You are formidable. What’d you read last? Curious George?

You can discredit anything pasted in whenever you’re up to it
 
Snowflakes and virtue-signalling explained, aka the Lupi33x playbook:

From Malala to Parkland, why are the victims demonised?

"Survivors of the Marjory Stoneman Douglas high school shooting in Parkland, Florida, this February, in which 17 students and teachers were killed, have been attacked in ways that mirror Malala’s character assassination. First they were dismissed as fake, “crisis actors”; then their moral and physical fibre was questioned.

An unverified photo of Malala wearing jeans and high-heeled boots circulated on social media and attracted abuse for her allegedly scandalous fashion choices (she has never been seen without a headscarf). Emma González, one of the more prominent Parkland student campaigners, has been called a “skinhead lesbian” by a Republican candidate. He also called David Hogg, another survivor, a “moron” and a “bald-faced liar”. All three have been Photoshopped on to images that were then circulated as real on social media in order to “prove” that they are stooges for some liberal lobby.

How rightwingers have attacked Parkland students with lies, hoaxes and smears
The result is that the smear campaigns, so vicious and unrelenting, sow seeds of doubt in the larger population. More importantly, they end up diverting the conversation away from the core issue – the fundamental flaw in a society that has failed to protect its children, those most innocent of victims, and fixates instead on the figurehead as corrupt or as a vehicle of sinister puppeteers.

These figureheads are also not held to be competent agents of political change and so are seen as upstarts, precocious transgressors, pretentious people who think they are better than everybody else. This is an impulse that is suspicious of activism when carried out by everyday people, even those who have been unwillingly thrust into the spotlight by traumatic events. In the case of the young, the smear campaigns have to be especially vicious because there is so little information available that would easily discredit them. They have no history, no romantic past, no adult failings or idiosyncrasies.

Society has a problem with public campaigners because they are symbols of all the threats that encroach upon its comforting myths and hierarchies. It is not really about gun control in America or about girls’ education in Pakistan or about providing safe harbour to refugees. It is about upholding the status quo in all the ways that ensure our small relative superiorities are enshrined; and it is about our prejudices as to who gets to advocate or campaign.

The pompous head of the private school association in Pakistan that planned the anti-Malala day does not like it that a random young woman wields more influence than him, so he tries to tear her down. A politician is a little irritated that a cocky teen’s voice is beginning to be louder than his, and so he scoffs at him."


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/05/malala-parkland-demonise-victims-nobel-prize-winner-pakistan?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
 
Re:

macbindle said:
Yeah but you support killing babies which is socialist so you'll never agree.


It’s true. I insist that they be born out of wedlock if necessary into strained conditions of poverty and emotional insecurity or stability and that they and whatever of their family can be accounted for should have no assistance whatsoever from the public good and imprisoned if the time comes where they can work for pennies on the dollar, maybe do a bit of smuggling and be subjet to to the depredations of corrupt prison employees. Or work thre jobs in rent seeking convenience food marts that wreck the food chain ( the environment) contribute to ill health and the obesity crisis and inflated real estate through rent seeking credit ratings. Etc.

It’s a wild utopian dream, I know.
 
Re: Re:

Lupi33x said:
macbindle said:
Lupi33x said:
You're quite predictable and I saw that coming.
So the BBC contradicts itself with spin after embarrassing the country. What else is new...
The facts remain, London murder rate is higher than New York's. You can call that selective stats all day it doesn't change the fact. How can it be with no guns, how can it be...
Nice utopia you've got there.
USA murder rate=4.88 per 100k citizens

UK murder rate= 0.9 per 100k citizens.

How can it be with no guns, how can it be...
Nice utopia you've got there.
Predict that did you?
Yep. We're talking about New York vs London.
I expected you would try to change the parameters because these stats sink your entire narrative.
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"...lupi, are you a NRA member?
 
Re: Re:

Lupi33x said:
Unchained said:
Lupi..I think lots of the trajectories of conversation here is based on some form of American exceptionalism..it never was.
we never were.
As the world gets miniaturized by technology Americans are in all out resistance to being measured.. we are not the healthiest, we are not the most educated, happy or fit..we are not winning any infant mortality contests.

But what are panties are in a bunch about is that we are violent and have some whacked non apologetic stance about it to ourselves and others. We are currently on some stupid world concert type tour
.we are saying we kill each other and our children and we are proud of it.
Lots of Americans are embarrassed that we are fat, don't have free school or health care and that murder is common and ignored
.just some cultural boilerplate. Our president is reinforcing American exceptionalism
Rude,uneducated and blissfully lost on the art of saying sorry.
It's like buying a Gary Glitter album not because you like the music but after discovering he is a child molester..we need to reject most of Trump's behavior.. Internationally unacceptable..
His behavior is irrelevant. His actions as President speak louder and that is all we need to judge him on.
Look at countries that have free school and health care and tell me how good that school & health care actually are.

You're a socialist if you believe in those things and we'll never agree so its pointless debating political ideology. I'd rather have a guy who is rough around the edges as President who improved things for the country than some CIA robot who gave nothing but lip service and watched the country burn. Don't even get started on the foreign policy disaster, the effects of which are still being felt in Europe as well as the Mid East.
There's a difference in 'rough around the edges' and being a racist, lying thug.

How has he improved 'things' in his 15 months? Specifics please. How will his trade war, bloated national debt, arming and militarizing the southern border, obvious fear of anything not white, male and heterosexual, gutting of the state department, EPA, education department(devos, she's a gem) 'improve things'?

Specifics please.

Oh yes, character matters...donnie is not a gentleman, statesman.Not educated, not well read(I think he needs glasses but is too vain to get them), certainly not a student of anything, like history.
 
Jan 20, 2016
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Re: Re:

Bustedknuckle said:
Lupi33x said:
Unchained said:
Lupi..I think lots of the trajectories of conversation here is based on some form of American exceptionalism..it never was.
we never were.
As the world gets miniaturized by technology Americans are in all out resistance to being measured.. we are not the healthiest, we are not the most educated, happy or fit..we are not winning any infant mortality contests.

But what are panties are in a bunch about is that we are violent and have some whacked non apologetic stance about it to ourselves and others. We are currently on some stupid world concert type tour
.we are saying we kill each other and our children and we are proud of it.
Lots of Americans are embarrassed that we are fat, don't have free school or health care and that murder is common and ignored
.just some cultural boilerplate. Our president is reinforcing American exceptionalism
Rude,uneducated and blissfully lost on the art of saying sorry.
It's like buying a Gary Glitter album not because you like the music but after discovering he is a child molester..we need to reject most of Trump's behavior.. Internationally unacceptable..
His behavior is irrelevant. His actions as President speak louder and that is all we need to judge him on.
Look at countries that have free school and health care and tell me how good that school & health care actually are.

You're a socialist if you believe in those things and we'll never agree so its pointless debating political ideology. I'd rather have a guy who is rough around the edges as President who improved things for the country than some CIA robot who gave nothing but lip service and watched the country burn. Don't even get started on the foreign policy disaster, the effects of which are still being felt in Europe as well as the Mid East.
There's a difference in 'rough around the edges' and being a racist, lying thug.

How has he improved 'things' in his 15 months? Specifics please. How will his trade war, bloated national debt, arming and militarizing the southern border, obvious fear of anything not white, male and heterosexual, gutting of the state department, EPA, education department(devos, she's a gem) 'improve things'?

Specifics please.

Oh yes, character matters...donnie is not a gentleman, statesman.Not educated, not well read(I think he needs glasses but is too vain to get them), certainly not a student of anything, like history.
This fictitious Trump that Media Matters, MSNBC, CNN, SNL and the Democrats have created; and convinced those with malleable minds exists, bears very little resemblance to the real Trump. It would take my lifetime and more to deprogram the damage that has been done to you, I've better things to do with my time.
 
Re: Re:

Lupi33x said:
Bustedknuckle said:
Lupi33x said:
Unchained said:
Lupi..I think lots of the trajectories of conversation here is based on some form of American exceptionalism..it never was.
we never were.
As the world gets miniaturized by technology Americans are in all out resistance to being measured.. we are not the healthiest, we are not the most educated, happy or fit..we are not winning any infant mortality contests.

But what are panties are in a bunch about is that we are violent and have some whacked non apologetic stance about it to ourselves and others. We are currently on some stupid world concert type tour
.we are saying we kill each other and our children and we are proud of it.
Lots of Americans are embarrassed that we are fat, don't have free school or health care and that murder is common and ignored
.just some cultural boilerplate. Our president is reinforcing American exceptionalism
Rude,uneducated and blissfully lost on the art of saying sorry.
It's like buying a Gary Glitter album not because you like the music but after discovering he is a child molester..we need to reject most of Trump's behavior.. Internationally unacceptable..
His behavior is irrelevant. His actions as President speak louder and that is all we need to judge him on.
Look at countries that have free school and health care and tell me how good that school & health care actually are.

You're a socialist if you believe in those things and we'll never agree so its pointless debating political ideology. I'd rather have a guy who is rough around the edges as President who improved things for the country than some CIA robot who gave nothing but lip service and watched the country burn. Don't even get started on the foreign policy disaster, the effects of which are still being felt in Europe as well as the Mid East.
There's a difference in 'rough around the edges' and being a racist, lying thug.

How has he improved 'things' in his 15 months? Specifics please. How will his trade war, bloated national debt, arming and militarizing the southern border, obvious fear of anything not white, male and heterosexual, gutting of the state department, EPA, education department(devos, she's a gem) 'improve things'?

Specifics please.

Oh yes, character matters...donnie is not a gentleman, statesman.Not educated, not well read(I think he needs glasses but is too vain to get them), certainly not a student of anything, like history.
This fictitious Trump that Media Matters, MSNBC, CNN, SNL and the Democrats have created; and convinced those with malleable minds exists, bears very little resemblance to the real Trump. It would take my lifetime and more to deprogram the damage that has been done to you, I've better things to do with my time.
Didn’t think you could show anything that has actually improved...what a surprise. The ‘real’ trump, I see you choose to ignore the ridiculous things he says everyday on his hand held brain cell.
 
Jan 20, 2016
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Re: Re:

Bustedknuckle said:
Lupi33x said:
Bustedknuckle said:
Lupi33x said:
Unchained said:
Lupi..I think lots of the trajectories of conversation here is based on some form of American exceptionalism..it never was.
we never were.
As the world gets miniaturized by technology Americans are in all out resistance to being measured.. we are not the healthiest, we are not the most educated, happy or fit..we are not winning any infant mortality contests.

But what are panties are in a bunch about is that we are violent and have some whacked non apologetic stance about it to ourselves and others. We are currently on some stupid world concert type tour
.we are saying we kill each other and our children and we are proud of it.
Lots of Americans are embarrassed that we are fat, don't have free school or health care and that murder is common and ignored
.just some cultural boilerplate. Our president is reinforcing American exceptionalism
Rude,uneducated and blissfully lost on the art of saying sorry.
It's like buying a Gary Glitter album not because you like the music but after discovering he is a child molester..we need to reject most of Trump's behavior.. Internationally unacceptable..
His behavior is irrelevant. His actions as President speak louder and that is all we need to judge him on.
Look at countries that have free school and health care and tell me how good that school & health care actually are.

You're a socialist if you believe in those things and we'll never agree so its pointless debating political ideology. I'd rather have a guy who is rough around the edges as President who improved things for the country than some CIA robot who gave nothing but lip service and watched the country burn. Don't even get started on the foreign policy disaster, the effects of which are still being felt in Europe as well as the Mid East.
There's a difference in 'rough around the edges' and being a racist, lying thug.

How has he improved 'things' in his 15 months? Specifics please. How will his trade war, bloated national debt, arming and militarizing the southern border, obvious fear of anything not white, male and heterosexual, gutting of the state department, EPA, education department(devos, she's a gem) 'improve things'?

Specifics please.

Oh yes, character matters...donnie is not a gentleman, statesman.Not educated, not well read(I think he needs glasses but is too vain to get them), certainly not a student of anything, like history.
This fictitious Trump that Media Matters, MSNBC, CNN, SNL and the Democrats have created; and convinced those with malleable minds exists, bears very little resemblance to the real Trump. It would take my lifetime and more to deprogram the damage that has been done to you, I've better things to do with my time.
Didn’t think you could show anything that has actually improved...what a surprise. The ‘real’ trump, I see you choose to ignore the ridiculous things he says everyday on his hand held brain cell.
I've got better things to do with my time than watch CNN's daily Trump bashing.
 
Re: Re:

Lupi33x said:
macbindle said:
"You can grab them by the pussy"
You've never said anything like that in private in your entire life I take it.
Only the person in question. And even then there are some tactic preliminaries and consensual lightheartedness.

We’ll take it that as with most everything, you’re not versed in these matters either: hence the bluster.
 
Re: Re:

Lupi33x said:
macbindle said:
"You can grab them by the pussy"
You've never said anything like that in private in your entire life I take it.
I think we can take your attempted defence as a tacit admission that these are Trump's words, having told us in your previous post that the media has created a false image of Trump.

These are Trump's words. Not the media's. He is capable of creating his own image without any need of media exaggeration.

Why would whether or not I have ever muttered misogenistic and rapey comments have any bearing on this?

Your attempted defence is pretty revealing of your view of women.
 
Jan 20, 2016
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Re: Re:

macbindle said:
Lupi33x said:
macbindle said:
"You can grab them by the pussy"
You've never said anything like that in private in your entire life I take it.
I think we can take your attempted defence as a tacit admission that these are Trump's words, having told us in your previous post that the media has created a false image of Trump.

These are Trump's words. Not the media's. He is capable of creating his own image without any need of media exaggeration.

Why would whether or not I have ever muttered misogenistic and rapey comments have any bearing on this?

Your attempted defence is pretty revealing of your view of women.
its not rapey when "they let you do it" = consent

So I take your lack of an answer as a yes because it would be easier to say no.

You're the second person on this forum to try to call me a rapist today. Nice people here, really nice.
 

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