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Nov 8, 2012
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djpbaltimore said:
Scott SoCal said:
Sorry. I usually apologize when I'm wrong.

This passes as analysis?

You know the left won the culture war, right? FFS, marijuana will be Federally legal soon. Accept the victory already.
You misspelled 'never'.

I knew it was time to leave Arkansas when one of the ballot initiatives banned same sex couples from adopting*. But, I will let everybody I know who still lives there that they have already 'won'. I'm sure that they'll be thrilled to hear it.

Overall, I am sure that the transactional support of Trump by those christian leaders had no strings whatsoever. Cool story, bro.

ETA: It passed 57-43! A landslide. Fortunately is was later struck down by the courts. See where this may be leading?
You misspelled 'never'.
Then you haven't looked.

But, I will let everybody I know who still lives there that they have already 'won'.
You know BO defended DOMA until well in to his first term. That was not very long ago. LBGTQ community has come a very, very long way in a relative short amount of time.

Overall, I am sure that the transactional support of Trump by those christian leaders had no strings whatsoever. Cool story, bro.
I can imaging those Christian leaders have had to eat a lot of crow in the last year and a half. If you think the bulk of Trump support comes from the birthers then... there's really nothing I can say. Except that you still have no idea why he won.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Bustedknuckle said:
Hey scott, the face of your trump led republican party...do you know her? Is she from your neighborhood?
She even mentioned the president, 'even the president says your are murderers and rapists'...nice, deal with it

http://abc13.com/woman-hurls-racist-insults-at-mom-and-son-who-were-working/3658878/

OBTW-the guy who said Clinton, if elected, should be removed 'by any means'...including assassination...why that's exactly like gay bashing, LGBTQ hating sarah HUCKABEE being asked to leave a restaurant..TS...
Why do you hate us?" Guzman asked. The woman's response was, "Because you're Mexicans."

"We're honest people right here," Guzman replied. The woman scoffed, then said, "Yeah, rapists, animals, drug dealers...even the president of the United States says so."
I'm sorry, so you are painting Trump supporters with this brush? Okay man.
 
Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
Koronin said:
Koronin said:
ChewbaccaDefense said:
Koronin said:
ChewbaccaDefense, I completely agree with you. I want out of this country. Too far away from my husband's retirement and I'm a lot further away from retirement than he is. Unfortunately I don't see a way out before he retires and then hopefully we can survive on his retirement income.
And the unfortunate reality is that the DNC only has themselves to blame. They ran the one person in America who couldn't beat Trump, and here we are.
Actually I think the two Candidates they had were the two that couldn't win for different reason. Unfortunately as a female our lives depended on the last election and now we won't have any rights left in a couple of years.
So, I honestly don’t get this sentiment. In another generation women will control nearly everything.
The GOP is intent on taking away our rights and forcing us back to being pieces of property and disposable incubators with no other value. That very well can happen with the Supreme Court nominee. Those decisions will be felt for generations. They will basically force women out of the workforce because they will make it legal for employer to refuse to hire women of child bearing age just because we could get pregnant and allow them to fire us if we do.
Weird. I have two pregnant women employed right now and I’m a very small business. I’m not gonna fire them. They kick ***. My team rules and i’m Hoping they can figure out a family/work balance. Praying actually.

You need to take a step back from the edge. Literally none of what you just wrote is going to happen.[/quote]

You may not, but a LOT of companies WILL and currently do they just use other excuses. Before it was illegal they not only did but flat out said it was because they were pregnant. Sorry if you don't like reality. Women also don't get promotions just because we CAN get pregnant. That is a fact in many companies and with the new justice it is very likely to just get worse.
I also HOPE you will grant them at least a month of time off AFTER they deliver so they have time to recover before having to be back at work. Of course this country doesn't have maternity leave and most companies in this country do not have maternity leave either. In many companies women are lucky if they can get a week off for childbirth. Although there is FMLA most women cannot afford to take time off with that because they can't afford being without the income.
This is the real world in the US for women.
 
Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
rhubroma said:
Scott SoCal said:
rhubroma said:
Garbage and utter pap are sensational. Just prooves you are a blockhead.
I could have used "wrong" and "silly".... but I chose to be flashy.
"Flashy" would be to "sex it up a bit" intellectually, but you haven't hit the mark.

And those immigration rules to follow? We are free to rape and pilliage your resources, or buy your drugs, or bomb you, or strike you on a proxy basis, but don't come knocking on our doors?
Just knock on the front door. Don't sneak in the back. It's not too much to ask.
How does this tackle the problem at hand? The front door is shut and gaurded, but the long tentacals of US capitalism have the keys to exploit everywhere. In fact the solution is the wall.

Give and take doesn't seem to be your forte.
 
Nor honesty, sacrifice or heavy lifting. Socialism wont work because it doesn’t work. How could it be paid for? Cut military spending?

My heart’s in the right place, I’m just feckless. Good for a laugh and a firm handshake though. Apparently the working definition of conservatism and libertarianism is to not stick one’s neck out for anything. Inspiring.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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aphronesis said:
Nor honesty, sacrifice or heavy lifting. Socialism wont work because it doesn’t work. How could it be paid for? Cut military spending?

My heart’s in the right place, I’m just feckless. Good for a laugh and a firm handshake though. Apparently the working definition of conservatism and libertarianism is to not stick one’s neck out for anything. Inspiring.
Like you do?

Beyond that a really stupid post. Taking military spending to zero would barely pay for Medicare for Californians.
 
Robert5091 said:
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/27/bill-shine-white-house-communications-678856
President Donald Trump is expected to tap former Fox News executive Bill Shine as communications director, the latest sign of the network's growing influence over the West Wing.
One day, the Murdochs will ask for a favor ...
Huh! Well I never -
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-28/for-deals-like-disney-fox-it-helps-to-be-a-trump-friend
For Deals Like Disney-Fox, It Helps to Be a Trump Friend

The antitrust approval process isn’t supposed to work like this.
...
There is no question that the president’s ally Murdoch wants to sell to Disney, not to Comcast. So how convenient that the Justice Department gave the deal its stamp of approval almost immediately after the two companies signed their new, improved merger deal. The approval, as the New York Times noted, “bolsters” Disney’s bid because it makes it possible for the merger to close before Comcast can make another move.

When he announced the Justice Department’s approval on Wednesday, Delrahim made it sound as if his division had actually stood up for consumers. “Today’s settlement ensures that sports programming competition is preserved in the local markets where Disney and Fox compete for cable and satellite distribution,” he said in a statement.

But that’s just window dressing to disguise the fact that the person Delrahim really stood up for was Trump. When people talk about Trump’s authoritarian impulses, they rarely include antitrust enforcement. But they should. We now know he will use it to aid friends and punish perceived enemies — and the rule of law be damned.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Koronin said:
You may not, but a LOT of companies WILL and currently do they just use other excuses. Before it was illegal they not only did but flat out said it was because they were pregnant. Sorry if you don't like reality. Women also don't get promotions just because we CAN get pregnant. That is a fact in many companies and with the new justice it is very likely to just get worse.
I also HOPE you will grant them at least a month of time off AFTER they deliver so they have time to recover before having to be back at work. Of course this country doesn't have maternity leave and most companies in this country do not have maternity leave either. In many companies women are lucky if they can get a week off for childbirth. Although there is FMLA most women cannot afford to take time off with that because they can't afford being without the income.
This is the real world in the US for women.
I also HOPE you will grant them at least a month of time off AFTER they deliver so they have time to recover before having to be back at work.
They get 6 weeks natural, 8 weeks C-section. Both the employees and employer pay in to California Disability. Generally new Mom's will take several weeks of FMLA. Again it's disability already paid for. Those that work here receive 160 hours of paid time off. They can use it in any way they choose... it works out to 4 weeks paid and they get that after being here for one year. Plus I'm flexible. The reality is I need them more than they need me and I think all of us know it. They work hard, are talented and reasonably well paid.

As a woman or a man the only thing you need to do as an employee is bring value to your employer. The fact that you have a uterus means very little if you are valuable as an employee. I don't know or know of a business owner who doesn't think this way.

This is the real world in the US for women.
Ted Kennedy, 1987, on the Senate floor;

Robert Bork's America is a land in which women would be forced into back-alley abortions, blacks would sit at segregated lunch counters, rogue police could break down citizens' doors in midnight raids, and schoolchildren could not be taught about evolution, writers and artists could be censored at the whim of the Government, and the doors of the Federal courts would be shut on the fingers of millions of citizens
Sound familiar?
 
Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
Then you haven't looked.

You know BO defended DOMA until well in to his first term. That was not very long ago. LBGTQ community has come a very, very long way in a relative short amount of time.

I can imaging those Christian leaders have had to eat a lot of crow in the last year and a half. If you think the bulk of Trump support comes from the birthers then... there's really nothing I can say. Except that you still have no idea why he won.
Let's not get carried away. The rightwing deification of Kim Davis suggests that we are not that far from where we started. Mostly replacing an older generation with millennials. I don't think that many individuals have changed their views. Whether the trend continues over time is hard to predict. LGBTQ are as prone to demagoguery as illegal immigrants or muslims. Credit to Trump that he seems not to care one way or another, but we know how fickle public opinion is in the days of Trumpism and Anti-Trumpism (see Russia, FBI, NFL, etc). We shall see how this plays out. There are already cases in the pipeline and I anticipate a lot more to come.

No, and I never said it was. But when he was at 20% in the GOP primary against 17 candidates, I think they made up a substantial part of that number, providing him an essential firewall when he lost Iowa.
 
Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
Socialism isn't insane as an idea. The problem is it doesn't work. Granted, some very small indigenous populated countries rife with natural resources it has done good things for most of the population. But Socialism can't be scaled.
That is such a tired argument. You can't deny the success that smaller countries have had with (mixed) socialism, so you claim that it doesn't work when a population reaches a certain size, though there is no evidence whatsoever to back that up, nor is there any logical reason to believe it. It’s just a cute excuse that anti-socialists use, because democratic socialism to that degree has never actually been tried in a country the size of the U.S. What we do know is that many aspects of our economy have been socialized, and to great success. There is no particular reason to think that further socialism would bring the entire system down.

Based on the evidence, it would be more reasonable to argue that capitalism can’t be scaled. Compare China with India.

I would say for you to get what you want I have to get what I want first. Not to be flippant, but a thriving economy pays for all the stuff you want to provide.
Not to be flippant, but a strong federal government pays for the infrastructure and basic research that the thriving economy needs in order to provide anything.

I don't think the point is conservative don't want inexpensive and accessible healthcare... the point is how can we pay for it that is fair? In principle, free college, free university is great. How can it be paid for in a fair way? Are we a sovereign Country? Do we have a right and responsibility to policy who we grant citizenship to? How do we do that in a way fair to everybody? Housing is a human right. Great. How do we pay for that in a fair way?
In principle, it would be great if we could provide free education up to high school to everyone, but how could we possibly pay for that? In principle, it would be great if we could build libraries and create public parks for everyone, a national highway system, have a national system of defense for everyone, but my goodness, we can't pay for any of that, so I guess we can't have it. As Americans, we believe most things can't be done, that's our national motto.

Should a relative handful be forced to support the masses? How much responsibility do the masses have to support themselves? Any?
Substitute the word "consumers" for "masses", and suddenly it doesn't look so difficult.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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djpbaltimore said:
Scott SoCal said:
Then you haven't looked.

You know BO defended DOMA until well in to his first term. That was not very long ago. LBGTQ community has come a very, very long way in a relative short amount of time.

I can imaging those Christian leaders have had to eat a lot of crow in the last year and a half. If you think the bulk of Trump support comes from the birthers then... there's really nothing I can say. Except that you still have no idea why he won.
Let's not get carried away. The rightwing deification of Kim Davis suggests that we are not that far from where we started. Mostly replacing an older generation with millennials. I don't think that many individuals have changed their views. Whether the trend continues over time is hard to predict. LGBTQ are as prone to demagoguery as illegal immigrants or muslims. Credit to Trump that he seems not to care one way or another, but we know how fickle public opinion is in the days of Trumpism and Anti-Trumpism (see Russia, FBI, NFL, etc). We shall see how this plays out. There are already cases in the pipeline and I anticipate a lot more to come.

No, and I never said it was. But when he was at 20% in the GOP primary against 17 candidates, I think they made up a substantial part of that number, providing him an essential firewall when he lost Iowa.
The rightwing deification of Kim Davis suggests that we are not that far from where we started. Mostly replacing an older generation with millennials. I don't think that many individuals have changed their views.
There's a process for the Kim Davis' of the world. She went to jail if I recall.

LGBTQ community can't possibly expect to change the hearts and minds of all people who have deeply held religious beliefs. Surely you understand that, right? But good grief, look at where the Pope is at on the issue these days. You may want it all, and you may want it now but... there's been monumental progress made just in the last decade. That's not getting rolled back anymore that anti-discrimination laws are in general.

LGBTQ are as prone to demagoguery as illegal immigrants or muslims.
Yeah except the demagoguery you speak of is largely fiction.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Merckx index said:
Scott SoCal said:
Socialism isn't insane as an idea. The problem is it doesn't work. Granted, some very small indigenous populated countries rife with natural resources it has done good things for most of the population. But Socialism can't be scaled.
That is such a tired argument. You can't deny the success that smaller countries have had with (mixed) socialism, so you claim that it doesn't work when a population reaches a certain size, though there is no evidence whatsoever to back that up, nor is there any logical reason to believe it. It’s just a cute excuse that anti-socialists use, because democratic socialism to that degree has never actually been tried in a country the size of the U.S. What we do know is that many aspects of our economy have been socialized, and to great success. There is no particular reason to think that further socialism would bring the entire system down.

Based on the evidence, it would be more reasonable to argue that capitalism can’t be scaled. Compare China with India.

I would say for you to get what you want I have to get what I want first. Not to be flippant, but a thriving economy pays for all the stuff you want to provide.
Not to be flippant, but a strong federal government pays for the infrastructure and basic research that the thriving economy needs in order to provide anything.

I don't think the point is conservative don't want inexpensive and accessible healthcare... the point is how can we pay for it that is fair? In principle, free college, free university is great. How can it be paid for in a fair way? Are we a sovereign Country? Do we have a right and responsibility to policy who we grant citizenship to? How do we do that in a way fair to everybody? Housing is a human right. Great. How do we pay for that in a fair way?
In principle, it would be great if we could provide free education up to high school to everyone, but how could we possibly pay for that? In principle, it would be great if we could build libraries and create public parks for everyone, a national highway system, have a national system of defense for everyone, but my goodness, we can't pay for any of that, so I guess we can't have it. As Americans, we believe most things can't be done, that's our national motto.

Should a relative handful be forced to support the masses? How much responsibility do the masses have to support themselves? Any?
Substitute the word "consumers" for "masses", and suddenly it doesn't look so difficult.
That is such a tired argument.
Try as you like but you can't ignore incentive and human nature. We aren't Sweden and even there they have their issues. Central Planning doesn't work on a big scale. Neither does the barter system.

but a strong federal government pays for the infrastructure and basic research
Pays for with what? Governemnt is paid how?

In principle, it would be great if we could provide free education up to high school to everyone, but how could we possibly pay for that? In principle, it would be great if we could build libraries and create public parks for everyone, a national highway system, have a national system of defense for everyone, but my goodness, we can't pay for any of that, so I guess we can't have it. As Americans, we believe most things can't be done, that's our national motto.
It's a question of efficiency. Nothing is free and most understand that. Public education, at least today, isn't a very good example of an argument for expanding the role of government.

National Highway System? Yeah, that was private business contracted to both State and Federal public works re-directing tax dollars to create thousands of miles of Interstates. Tax dollars funding contracts awarded to private contractors.

As Americans, with the right incentives, we know that anything can be done.
 
Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
Koronin said:
You may not, but a LOT of companies WILL and currently do they just use other excuses. Before it was illegal they not only did but flat out said it was because they were pregnant. Sorry if you don't like reality. Women also don't get promotions just because we CAN get pregnant. That is a fact in many companies and with the new justice it is very likely to just get worse.
I also HOPE you will grant them at least a month of time off AFTER they deliver so they have time to recover before having to be back at work. Of course this country doesn't have maternity leave and most companies in this country do not have maternity leave either. In many companies women are lucky if they can get a week off for childbirth. Although there is FMLA most women cannot afford to take time off with that because they can't afford being without the income.
This is the real world in the US for women.
I also HOPE you will grant them at least a month of time off AFTER they deliver so they have time to recover before having to be back at work.
They get 6 weeks natural, 8 weeks C-section. Both the employees and employer pay in to California Disability. Generally new Mom's will take several weeks of FMLA. Again it's disability already paid for. Those that work here receive 160 hours of paid time off. They can use it in any way they choose... it works out to 4 weeks paid and they get that after being here for one year. Plus I'm flexible. The reality is I need them more than they need me and I think all of us know it. They work hard, are talented and reasonably well paid.

As a woman or a man the only thing you need to do as an employee is bring value to your employer. The fact that you have a uterus means very little if you are valuable as an employee. I don't know or know of a business owner who doesn't think this way.

This is the real world in the US for women.
Ted Kennedy, 1987, on the Senate floor;

Robert Bork's America is a land in which women would be forced into back-alley abortions, blacks would sit at segregated lunch counters, rogue police could break down citizens' doors in midnight raids, and schoolchildren could not be taught about evolution, writers and artists could be censored at the whim of the Government, and the doors of the Federal courts would be shut on the fingers of millions of citizens
Sound familiar?

I'm glad to hear you respect the women and the fact that they need time to recover after childbirth because many employers don't. That's because you're in California most likely. There are a lot of employers that do not value women. Unfortunately but true.

Yep and that is where we very well may be headed in many states. Unfortunately there are many signs that we are headed for those horrible days. There is a group that truly wants that to be reality and it will be a nightmare for the majority of us. I only pray it doesn't get that far, but it is a real possibility.
 
Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
There's a process for the Kim Davis' of the world. She went to jail if I recall.

LGBTQ community can't possibly expect to change the hearts and minds of all people who have deeply held religious beliefs. Surely you understand that, right? But good grief, look at where the Pope is at on the issue these days. You may want it all, and you may want it now but... there's been monumental progress made just in the last decade. That's not getting rolled back anymore that anti-discrimination laws are in general.

LGBTQ are as prone to demagoguery as illegal immigrants or muslims.
Yeah except the demagoguery you speak of is largely fiction.
Once you posit that religious beliefs trumps civil rights, just about anything is on the table. No one expects to convince everyone, but many want to keep most of the progress that has been made. I am not holding my breath.

Are you seriously suggesting that LGBTQ issues don't get demagogued? Ever listen to Curt Schilling or Mike Huckabee on the topic? Or how equal rights bills get turned into arguments about bathrooms?
 
Scott SoCal said:
Bustedknuckle said:
Hey scott, the face of your trump led republican party...do you know her? Is she from your neighborhood?
She even mentioned the president, 'even the president says your are murderers and rapists'...nice, deal with it

http://abc13.com/woman-hurls-racist-insults-at-mom-and-son-who-were-working/3658878/

OBTW-the guy who said Clinton, if elected, should be removed 'by any means'...including assassination...why that's exactly like gay bashing, LGBTQ hating sarah HUCKABEE being asked to leave a restaurant..TS...
Why do you hate us?" Guzman asked. The woman's response was, "Because you're Mexicans."

"We're honest people right here," Guzman replied. The woman scoffed, then said, "Yeah, rapists, animals, drug dealers...even the president of the United States says so."
I'm sorry, so you are painting Trump supporters with this brush? Okay man.
Yup, and the thousands who flock to his silly, 'kiss my ring' rallys..doesn't he know the campaign's over? BUT only place where they fawn over this guy..
 
NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION...geez
Several billionaires with deep ties to Russia attended exclusive, invitation-only receptions during Donald Trump’s inauguration festivities, guest lists obtained by ABC News show.
These powerful businessmen, who amassed their fortunes following the collapse of the Soviet Union -- including one who has since been sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury Department -- were ushered into events typically reserved for top donors and close political allies and were given unprecedented access to Trump’s inner circle.
..and once again, his 17 Intel agencies say there was Russian meddling in the 2016 election..putin says there wasn't, dumm-ass trump says there wasn't..wonder what Vlad has on donnie-boy...and will anybody be surprised if don the dummy asks NATO to curtail any eastern European expansion? 'Provacative'..like annexing Crimea or invading Eastern Ukraine wasn't...
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Bustedknuckle said:
Scott SoCal said:
Bustedknuckle said:
Hey scott, the face of your trump led republican party...do you know her? Is she from your neighborhood?
She even mentioned the president, 'even the president says your are murderers and rapists'...nice, deal with it

http://abc13.com/woman-hurls-racist-insults-at-mom-and-son-who-were-working/3658878/

OBTW-the guy who said Clinton, if elected, should be removed 'by any means'...including assassination...why that's exactly like gay bashing, LGBTQ hating sarah HUCKABEE being asked to leave a restaurant..TS...
Why do you hate us?" Guzman asked. The woman's response was, "Because you're Mexicans."

"We're honest people right here," Guzman replied. The woman scoffed, then said, "Yeah, rapists, animals, drug dealers...even the president of the United States says so."
I'm sorry, so you are painting Trump supporters with this brush? Okay man.
Yup, and the thousands who flock to his silly, 'kiss my ring' rallys..doesn't he know the campaign's over? BUT only place where they fawn over this guy..
I figured. And it’s a good thing. You still don’t get it. If not by now probably never. Get used to political irrelevance.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Bustedknuckle said:
NO COLLUSION, NO OBSTRUCTION...geez
Several billionaires with deep ties to Russia attended exclusive, invitation-only receptions during Donald Trump’s inauguration festivities, guest lists obtained by ABC News show.
These powerful businessmen, who amassed their fortunes following the collapse of the Soviet Union -- including one who has since been sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury Department -- were ushered into events typically reserved for top donors and close political allies and were given unprecedented access to Trump’s inner circle.
..and once again, his 17 Intel agencies say there was Russian meddling in the 2016 election..putin says there wasn't, dumm-ass trump says there wasn't..wonder what Vlad has on donnie-boy...and will anybody be surprised if don the dummy asks NATO to curtail any eastern European expansion? 'Provacative'..like annexing Crimea or invading Eastern Ukraine wasn't...
Re-runs are boring. As Gowdy said yesterday, “we’ve seen the bias, now show us the evidence...”

Here’s where you should hang your hat. Mr Booker has a winner. I’m sure of it. Don’t know why Kamala didn’t think of it first.

https://twitter.com/CoryBooker/status/1012373272556658688
 
Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
Socialism isn't insane as an idea. The problem is it doesn't work. Granted, some very small indigenous populated countries rife with natural resources it has done good things for most of the population. But Socialism can't be scaled.
The real problem with hard-core capitalism is that it doesn't take into account the damage done to the environment. Environmental services like water and air purification, pollination, temperature control, etc. are worth trillions, but they are taken for granted. Companies don't want to take responsibility for the *real* costs, not now, and certainly not for costs into the future. Otherwise the share value of oil & mining companies would likely be zero.

This is not hippie-speak. This is a reality you and mainstream economics simply refuse to face.
 
Re: Re:

Jagartrott said:
Scott SoCal said:
Socialism isn't insane as an idea. The problem is it doesn't work. Granted, some very small indigenous populated countries rife with natural resources it has done good things for most of the population. But Socialism can't be scaled.
The real problem with hard-core capitalism is that it doesn't take into account the damage done to the environment. Environmental services like water and air purification, pollination, temperature control, etc. are worth trillions, but they are taken for granted. Companies don't want to take responsibility for the *real* costs, not now, and certainly not for costs into the future. Otherwise the share value of oil & mining companies would likely be zero.

This is not hippie-speak. This is a reality you and mainstream economics simply refuse to face.
You can broaden this: hardcore macro-economic capitalism is not interested in externals. Of which the environment may be the most costly macro. Followed by expenses wrought on humanity.

Hard-core capitalism has no probleem privatizing things it never made or owned, but acquired through government approved fiat. And yet any sanctioned moves toward the public are beyond the pale.

It’s a pretty uninteresting form of perpetual hypocrisy. I guess if you live it for a few decades all alternatives become unpleasant abstractions.m

But you know some (many) people live in a world where all facets of human experience are only valid if filtered through the profit motive and possessive individualism.

Or a redneck, godfearin’ hand me down Hobbesianism.
 
Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
djpbaltimore said:
Scott SoCal said:
Then you haven't looked.

You know BO defended DOMA until well in to his first term. That was not very long ago. LBGTQ community has come a very, very long way in a relative short amount of time.

I can imaging those Christian leaders have had to eat a lot of crow in the last year and a half. If you think the bulk of Trump support comes from the birthers then... there's really nothing I can say. Except that you still have no idea why he won.
Let's not get carried away. The rightwing deification of Kim Davis suggests that we are not that far from where we started. Mostly replacing an older generation with millennials. I don't think that many individuals have changed their views. Whether the trend continues over time is hard to predict. LGBTQ are as prone to demagoguery as illegal immigrants or muslims. Credit to Trump that he seems not to care one way or another, but we know how fickle public opinion is in the days of Trumpism and Anti-Trumpism (see Russia, FBI, NFL, etc). We shall see how this plays out. There are already cases in the pipeline and I anticipate a lot more to come.

No, and I never said it was. But when he was at 20% in the GOP primary against 17 candidates, I think they made up a substantial part of that number, providing him an essential firewall when he lost Iowa.
The rightwing deification of Kim Davis suggests that we are not that far from where we started. Mostly replacing an older generation with millennials. I don't think that many individuals have changed their views.
There's a process for the Kim Davis' of the world. She went to jail if I recall.

LGBTQ community can't possibly expect to change the hearts and minds of all people who have deeply held religious beliefs. Surely you understand that, right? But good grief, look at where the Pope is at on the issue these days. You may want it all, and you may want it now but... there's been monumental progress made just in the last decade. That's not getting rolled back anymore that anti-discrimination laws are in general.

LGBTQ are as prone to demagoguery as illegal immigrants or muslims.
Yeah except the demagoguery you speak of is largely fiction.
NO .... I can NOT understand this at all. Why should these good people pay ... with their lives ... because you and the religious right have a hang up with the supernatural and/or interpreting the supernatural. You’re so dead F-ing wrong on this issue ... and the religious right’s treatment of these people is utterly deplorable. How TF can you have a serious,cogent discussion on social policy ... if your leaders keep spouting from the Bible? Get your head out of your ass, man.

American religious right? Lived it. Escaped by age 14. Totally fuckin wacko. Deplorable.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Re: Re:

Alpe73 said:
Scott SoCal said:
djpbaltimore said:
Scott SoCal said:
Then you haven't looked.

You know BO defended DOMA until well in to his first term. That was not very long ago. LBGTQ community has come a very, very long way in a relative short amount of time.

I can imaging those Christian leaders have had to eat a lot of crow in the last year and a half. If you think the bulk of Trump support comes from the birthers then... there's really nothing I can say. Except that you still have no idea why he won.
Let's not get carried away. The rightwing deification of Kim Davis suggests that we are not that far from where we started. Mostly replacing an older generation with millennials. I don't think that many individuals have changed their views. Whether the trend continues over time is hard to predict. LGBTQ are as prone to demagoguery as illegal immigrants or muslims. Credit to Trump that he seems not to care one way or another, but we know how fickle public opinion is in the days of Trumpism and Anti-Trumpism (see Russia, FBI, NFL, etc). We shall see how this plays out. There are already cases in the pipeline and I anticipate a lot more to come.

No, and I never said it was. But when he was at 20% in the GOP primary against 17 candidates, I think they made up a substantial part of that number, providing him an essential firewall when he lost Iowa.
The rightwing deification of Kim Davis suggests that we are not that far from where we started. Mostly replacing an older generation with millennials. I don't think that many individuals have changed their views.
There's a process for the Kim Davis' of the world. She went to jail if I recall.

LGBTQ community can't possibly expect to change the hearts and minds of all people who have deeply held religious beliefs. Surely you understand that, right? But good grief, look at where the Pope is at on the issue these days. You may want it all, and you may want it now but... there's been monumental progress made just in the last decade. That's not getting rolled back anymore that anti-discrimination laws are in general.

LGBTQ are as prone to demagoguery as illegal immigrants or muslims.
Yeah except the demagoguery you speak of is largely fiction.
NO .... I can NOT understand this at all. Why should these good people pay ... with their lives ... because you and the religious right have a hang up with the supernatural and/or interpreting the supernatural. You’re so dead F-ing wrong on this issue ... and the religious right’s treatment of these people is utterly deplorable. How TF can you have a serious,cogent discussion on social policy ... if your leaders keep spouting from the Bible? Get your head out of your ***, man.

American religious right? Lived it. Escaped by age 14. Totally **** wacko. Deplorable.
I’m sorry, what am I dead wrong about?
 

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