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That is key.

11,000 scientists will argue the "should" - by necessity - will read "shall not." However they will not stop there. Limits shall be placed also on how one chooses to live.

But let us try not to label the scientists as social engineers. Linguistic strategists will have to invent a non-threatening term such as "well-being coordinators" in order to fool the great unwashed.
I read somewhere about gun control. The "they will not stop there" was the angle of the article. I need to try and find it.
So the points being.
Everyone in a society should be for strict gun controls. Effective background checks. Not legal to sale via online without checks. Must have a license to conceal , or open carry hand guns. Mentally sick citizens should not have the rights to purchase guns.
But everyone believes "they will not stop there" and it snow balls into a giant stand off. The pro gun groups were proven right by the latest radical beliefs put forth by politicians like Beto.
 
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So the whistleblower statute says nothing of anonymity but is there to protects against retaliation.

How ironic that ABC tracks down this guys identity then has a competitor network terminate his employment.

I realize this is not Government but the irony is too much.
It is very ironic when you consider the treatment that is given to the mole that worked with schiff to start an impeachment. The media has gone out of their way to ignore that the person existed. Now with this situation they could not help but let CBS know the person was there working.
 
So it seems there are no problems in the world today and that, if left on their own, humanity and the markets find a just equilibrium between resources and consumption rates. There is no need for governance on any of these matters, not least of which in dealing with the thorny issue of population control. Ironically its seems that wealth keeps populations in check, but its lifestyle is wreaking havoc on the environment. By contrast poverty expands them in areas devestated by our industries. There is nothing wrong with this picture. Nay everything is just hunky-dory in la la land.
 
The narrative should be one of questioning why ABC killed the Epstein story three years ago. The statement released by ABC combined with investigation to identify the individual(s) who leaked to Veritas really tells one all one needs to know.

You have no idea what the young lady said when interviewed by Amy Robach and neither does O'keefe. Spin however you wish but if O'keefe in an operative of POTUS then this expose never happens.

CNN bosses were recently shown to be quite corrupt and extremely bias by Veritas. They very clearly don't report new but push propaganda. That should concern us all - did it concern you? CNN has - so far - not reported on the ABC/Veritas scandal (to my knowledge).

Robach's comments:

I’ve had the story for three years. I’ve had this interview with Virginia Roberts. We would not put it on the air. First of all, I was told who’s Jeffrey Epstein, no one knows who that is, this is a stupid story. Then the Palace found out that we had her whole allegations about Prince Andrew and threatened us a million different ways. We were so afraid we wouldn’t be able to interview Kate and Will, that also quashed the story. And then Alan Dershowitz was also implicated in it because of the planes. She told me everything. She had pictures, she had everything. She was in hiding for 12 years. We convinced her to come out. We convinced her to talk to us. It was unbelievable what we had, Clinton, we had everything.

I tried for three years to get it on to no avail and now it’s all coming out and it’s like these new relevant revelations and I freaking had all of it. I’m so pissed right now, like every day I get more and more pissed because I’m just like, oh my god, what we had was unreal. Other women backing it up. Brad Edwards the attorney three years ago saying like, ‘there will come a day for we will realize Jeffrey Epstein was the most prolific pedophile this country has ever known.’ I had it all three years ago.


Apparently this is not newsworthy to CNN. Zucker still claims CNN is a news organization. Does that trouble you?

In this light perhaps Veritas is doing investigative journalism, which (admittedly) is extremely rare and may go some distance in explaining the confusion.
Yes, we do. The NPR story that I linked to earlier was from August. I think most of what she wanted to get out has already been put out by the time of the video drop. I don't think any of the details were new, even that ABC quashed the report (see: NPR article). But like with most things, video moves public opinion more than written words, which is why she wanted to have the interview on National TV in the first place. Interesting that you post that when it doesn't support your narrative that this was mostly about the Clintons, when he is mentioned once in passing.

If you think I have high regard for CNN.... boy... do I have a newsflash for you.....

But, that said, O'Keefe makes CNN look like Edward R Murrow by comparison. You can continually evade the point about him getting paid by Trump. I never went to journalism school, but I don't think they teach you that you should take money from people and then do 'investigative journalism' solely on their political rivals. The Trump admin would be a goldmine for stories about corruption, but O'Keefe knows which side of his bread is buttered. He is a grifter, nothing more. You want to salute organizations for bringing down Epstein and his cadre. Start with Gawker that published the flight logs. Then move along to Julie K Brown from the Miami Herald who would not let the story drop through the cracks. Give credit where credit is due. Too bad Gawker got destroyed in court and can no longer do that type of investigative journalism.
 
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Yes, we do. The NPR story that I linked to earlier was from August. I think most of what she wanted to get out has already been put out by the time of the video drop. I don't think any of the details were new, even that ABC quashed the report (see: NPR article). But like with most things, video moves public opinion more than written words, which is why she wanted to have the interview on National TV in the first place. Interesting that you post that when it doesn't support your narrative that this was mostly about the Clintons, when he is mentioned once in passing.

If you think I have high regard for CNN.... boy... do I have a newsflash for you.....

But, that said, O'Keefe makes CNN look like Edward R Murrow by comparison. You can continually evade the point about him getting paid by Trump. I never went to journalism school, but I don't think they teach you that you should take money from people and then do 'investigative journalism' solely on their political rivals. The Trump admin would be a goldmine for stories about corruption, but O'Keefe knows which side of his bread is buttered. He is a grifter, nothing more. You want to salute organizations for bringing down Epstein and his cadre. Start with Gawker that published the flight logs. Then move along to Julie K Brown from the Miami Herald who would not let the story drop through the cracks. Give credit where credit is due. Too bad Gawker got destroyed in court and can no longer do that type of investigative journalism.
You think or you know?

Veritas is 501(c)3 non-profit.

He "got paid" through a pair of $10,000 donations from the Trump Foundation. On the list of big spenders those donations do not register very high.

He GOT PAID from Koch Bros donations to the tune of nearly $2 Million. In case you missed it, O'keefe's bread is buttered by the Koch Bros (now Bro) and they are not fans of POTUS. Not even one little bit.

Again, your narrative does not tell the story.
 
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Bloomberg is expected to file to run for President according to the NY Times. Apparently the earliest primary he can be on the ballot will be Alabama.

Looks like the Masters of the Universe have taken William A Galston's advice.

Ms. Warren should be commended for the wealth of detail in her plan, which allows voters to judge it for themselves. This said, she may well have penned the longest suicide note in recorded history. There’s no reason for the entire Democratic Party to sign it.
 
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So it seems there are no problems in the world today and that, if left on their own, humanity and the markets find a just equilibrium between resources and consumption rates. There is no need for governance on any of these matters, not least of which in dealing with the thorny issue of population control. Ironically its seems that wealth keeps populations in check, but its lifestyle is wreaking havoc on the environment. By contrast poverty expands them in areas devestated by our industries. There is nothing wrong with this picture. Nay everything is just hunky-dory in la la land.
Pretty generalized net you've cast on many parts of human endeavor. If everyone lived on the land with nothing but a barter system there would be no problems?
 
You think or you know?

Veritas is 501(c)3 non-profit.

He "got paid" through a pair of $10,000 donations from the Trump Foundation. On the list of big spenders those donations do not register very high.

He GOT PAID from Koch Bros donations to the tune of nearly $2 Million. In case you missed it, O'keefe's bread is buttered by the Koch Bros (now Bro) and they are not fans of POTUS. Not even one little bit.

Again, your narrative does not tell the story.
Ironic that the Koch Bros couldn't buy DT. He's selling to everyone else.
Seeing Rand Paul at the podium of Trump's recent rally had one of the brothers spinning in his grave.
Koch's family and the John Birch Society have spun conspiracy theories and right-wing theology wars for decades. Only right that they've reaped what they've sown.
 
Pretty generalized net you've cast on many parts of human endeavor. If everyone lived on the land with nothing but a barter system there would be no problems?
A bit of sarcasm doesn't register around here? Although, yes, in a generalized sense, this is the world we live in. And nothing will change unless the colossal business interests that have quite literally taken over the nation and humanity's relationship with nature and itself aren't fundamentally reconsidered. One could say this has always been the case. Indeed it has, but global population growth and consumption rates of resources and goods have never been this high. Science is telling us we have thus reached a critical point.

But it is a rebus for which there is no palpable sollution. Not least of which because the general consesus in this regard is to gauge quality of life and "progress" exclusively in terms of GNP. Denying the issues, however, as some have been doing, or rather cavalierly prioritizing life as a pursuit of wealth and material gains over all other considerations; is merely foolish.

As I see it either we as a global community come up with a way to govern the transition that makes it the least painful for everyone (unlikely), or else brutal upheavals through wars and natural calamities will redimension things for us (likely). Although it is just a matter of time before the new epoch is upon us.
 
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You think or you know?

Veritas is 501(c)3 non-profit.

He "got paid" through a pair of $10,000 donations from the Trump Foundation. On the list of big spenders those donations do not register very high.

He GOT PAID from Koch Bros donations to the tune of nearly $2 Million. In case you missed it, O'keefe's bread is buttered by the Koch Bros (now Bro) and they are not fans of POTUS. Not even one little bit.

Again, your narrative does not tell the story.
Well, I did write 'think', so that is a pretty solid clue that is what I meant. Unless you were in the room, we can't be certain of everything that was said.

I am glad that you are finally admitting that O'Keefe is biased and not an investigative journalist like you were just claiming earlier. (Welcome to reality BTW.) Conservative activist would be the most apt description. Trump is the conservative party right now and Trump and Kochs have many of the same boogeymen. Not very hard to appease both benefactors. Again, feel free to post anything O'Keefe has done that is bad for Trump or movement conservatism. It should be noted that those Trump payments came in 2015. Convenient timing at the very least, right? Possibly coming with the promise of access? Ohhh, look who got invited to Trump's social media summit at the WH this summer.... James O'Keefe.

Whatever Project Veritas calls itself, he pulled in over $235,000 in 2015 as chairman. Pretty good grift if you can get it. Although, based on clips that I have seen, I think he believes a lot of the ideology.
 
I love how you explain away the abc killing the Epstein story which is caught on tape by deflecting to O'Keefe's bias... as if that changes anything
Also caught on tape... though through vastly different circumstances.

I guess we could talk about how you are deflecting away from Trump by talking about the whistle blower, but I don't really care what you are doing. Feel free to post pizzagate truthers all you want.
 
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Well, I did write 'think', so that is a pretty solid clue that is what I meant. Unless you were in the room, we can't be certain of everything that was said.

I am glad that you are finally admitting that O'Keefe is biased and not an investigative journalist like you were just claiming earlier. (Welcome to reality BTW.) Conservative activist would be the most apt description. Trump is the conservative party right now and Trump and Kochs have many of the same boogeymen. Not very hard to appease both benefactors. Again, feel free to post anything O'Keefe has done that is bad for Trump or movement conservatism. It should be noted that those Trump payments came in 2015. Convenient timing at the very least, right? Possibly coming with the promise of access? Ohhh, look who got invited to Trump's social media summit at the WH this summer.... James O'Keefe.

Whatever Project Veritas calls itself, he pulled in over $235,000 in 2015 as chairman. Pretty good grift if you can get it. Although, based on clips that I have seen, I think he believes a lot of the ideology.
If O'keefe is bias then he falls in with the rest of us.

Koch's want wide open borders to fill their cheap labor desires. They do not give two shakes for the American low skilled worker that is devastated by their open border absurdity. That is in stark contrast with POTUS. While perhaps not enemies, Kochs would much rather see Hillary, Biden or Bloomberg in the Oval Office. Those are simple facts.

Nobody believed, in 2015, Trump would win. Not even Trump. So the timing of those payments for access purposes makes little to no sense (as you theorize it).
 
The billionaire Charles Koch on Sunday said rumours he would support Hillary Clinton in the US presidential election were “a blood libel”. The industrialist will not support Donald Trump either.
Seems unlikely that he would prefer Clinton or Biden. Simple 'facts' indeed.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/31/charles-koch-brothers-support-hillary-clinton-blood-libel

With an ego like Trump's, there is very little question in my mind that he thought he was going to win in 2015. He might've had doubts by the eve of election night, but he didn't pour all that money into the primary for grins.
 
Does anybody really think that every Democratic party move has not been exposed to consultants by the dozens and focus groups of equal numbers?
doesn't anyone know how most successful drama is made.? Pretty easy to see what all the Democratic delay is about. Like the ending of every multi million dollar movie, the script and ending are tested to see what the public responds to, what focus groups say was best.
the public portion of Trump getting tapped on the wrist is the best possible ending for the Democrats. Trump gets further exposed as a petty liar, and a few more of his surrounding mounds expose themselves as they get caught up in the tangled web. Nobody inside or outside of government can really think that another lie, even one that involves @$400 million dollars and national security can change minds of people that are not using theirs.
The best hope for the Democrats is to stay calm and allow as many responses to Trump's criminal network.
If the planets align and multiple court rulings come down and Trump associates start going to jail it may sway some.
China is doing there part but it is starting to look like the cost of revealing that Donald is dumb on trade will be paid by lots,lots more than China and the US.
The storm clouds are filling the sky.
 
Also caught on tape... though through vastly different circumstances.

I guess we could talk about how you are deflecting away from Trump by talking about the whistle blower, but I don't really care what you are doing. Feel free to post pizzagate truthers all you want.
There you go again. The video speaks for itself but you have a problem with it because of who tweeted it.

90% of the mainstream media are pro Democrats biased, the other 10% are mostly 'never Trump' RINOs. That you can't see this demonstrates the false reality you live in.
 
Some are somehow( w the help of the Trumpster.) Caught up on the media,the process and the whistleblowers. Yes it is of importance. But only secondary.
Who or how America discovered that the President himself and others spanned the globe looking for a country to collude in a smear campaign against the Biden's is in the periphery.
Romania and Bulgaria are both emerging as places where Rudy went influence peddling. With written records showing Gulliani suggesting that people play by his rules or else.
The media is not the whistleblowers and maybe a whistleblower is in the media. The message is the same. Trump was involved deeply in dirty tricks worldwide. From false loan documents, fake donations to and from charities,including to kids and vetrans, sham schools and real estate deals, profiteering and campaign finance fraud, and after Don claimed everything is fake he still won't show what is real. If he didn't write checks to Stormy and the Playmate it should be easy to prove.
If he is not making money from foreign government transactions, again easy to verify w the world's best accountants he claims to employ.
all easily resolved wo media snooping or boat loads of lawyers filing frivolous lawsuits only to delay the inevitably.
 
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Character assassination beats arguing the facts of what he reported, right? You all really do swallow whatever Trump spews, dontcha.
Here's the thrust of his testimony. Let's talk about it in the context of removal for high crimes and misdemeanors.

On July 25th, that call occurred. I listened to the call in the Situation Room with colleagues from the NSC and Office of the Vice President. As the transcript is in the public second, we all are aware of what was said. I was concerned by the call. I did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigate a U.S. citizen, and I was worried about the implications to the U.S. Government's support of Ukraine. I realized that if Ukraine pursued an investigation into the Bidens and Burisma, it would be interpreted as a bipartisan PIay, which would undoubtedly -- I'm sorry. I'm going to restate that. Sorry. I realized that if Ukraine pursued an investigation into the Bidens and Burisma, it would likely be interpreted as a partisan play, which would undoubtedly result in Ukraine losing the bipartisan support it has thus far maintained. This would all undermine U.S. national security. Following the call, I again reported my concerns to NSC's legaI counsel. In conclusion, the United States and Ukraine are and must remain strategic partners, working together to realize the shared vision of a stable, prosperous, and democratic Ukraine that is integrated into the Euro-Atlantic community. 0ur partnership is rooted in the idea that free citizens should be able to exercise their democratic nights, choose their own destiny, and live in peace.

He had concerns. So what? The President sets Foreign Policy, not Vindman. If the President asks the brand new President of an incredibly corrupt Country to look in to corruption that threatened our 2016 election (in which Ukraine was up to it's eye-balls) by investigating said (possible) corruption by an American citizen - where there is at least circumstantial evidence - then , while Vindman may have had concerns and voiced those, so what? It's not up to Vindman to declare what our relationship will be with Ukraine going forward.

"The United States and Ukraine must remain strategic partners....." Vindman DOES NOT GET TO MAKE THAT DECLARATION as it relates to foreign policy. He can certainly hold that opinion but he does not get to run to his superiors with his concerns (over that declaration).

This is deep state subversion in black and white. If Vindman wants to run the show then he should run for President. Absent that he is there to help enact the foreign policy of POTUS. If he can't then he can reassign to another position. As a military office one would think Vindman would understand the role of the commander in chief while also understanding his role.

To recap: POTUS makes a phone call. Asks for help with potential corruption. Ukraine does not investigate and still gets lethal aid (something Obama would not do). Assuming quid pro quo is impeachable (it's not especially in this context) where is it?

Like POTUS, dislike POTUS, it matters not. What's going on here is a sham just as Russia Collusion was a sham and it has set a horrendous precedent for the United States going forward. There will elections in the future. But it is becoming clear this Country is lurching towards ungovernability.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6543468/Alexander-Vindman-Testimony.pdf
 
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