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Michael Cohen? You might want to brush up on what he said about Trump's tax audit once he was under oath.
Asked whether the president was actually under audit in 2016, Cohen said even he was unsure. “I don’t know the answer. I asked for a copy of the audit so that I could use it in terms of my statements to the press, and I was never able to obtain one.”

Cohen was not among the members of Trump's tax lawyers.
 
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No one entity mourns the 2016 election results more than this one;

The numbers don’t lie, Hillary’s name is poison .
This is evidenced nowhere more in the fact that the Clinton Foundation has gone from turning over a revenue of almost $400 million in 2013, to actually LOSING almost $33 million since Donald Trump wiped the floor with Hillary in 2016.

Newly released tax records show that the foundation reported a loss of almost $17 million in 2018, to add to the net loss of $16.1 million the previous year in 2017.


 
In 2016, according to Trump's legal team, his taxes had been audited every year since 2002. Maybe they are lying. Call the IRS and see how much of Trump's personal information you are able to get.
Ya think?

A dubious claim made by men of a dubious profession paid by a dubious man.

Every post you make about Clinton's or Obama's finances illustrate why Trump is keeping his wealth secret. Although I do find that chart kinda funny. By their estimation, 'skyrocketed' during her presidential run means sharply decreasing from 2014 to 2016. I also enjoy that she was considered a 'lock' for the nomination in 2014, before anyone even had entered the race. Find that at the Daily Caller? With a $200M endowment, they are not exactly hurting.
 
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Ya think?

A dubious claim made by men of a dubious profession paid by a dubious man.

Every post you make about Clinton's or Obama's finances illustrate why Trump is keeping his wealth secret. Although I do find that chart kinda funny. By their estimation, 'skyrocketed' during her presidential run means sharply decreasing from 2014 to 2016. I also enjoy that she was considered a 'lock' for the nomination in 2014, before anyone even had entered the race. Find that at the Daily Caller? With a $200M endowment, they are not exactly hurting.
I find the chart funny as well. It is a testament to how corrupt Hillary is. When she had juice, people and Countries paid to play. No juice, no dinero.

But I'm sure they do great work.

Hillary announced in April 2015. That she was considered a lock in 2014 was as true then as it was in 2016.
 
But Trump's pay to play schemes don't bother you. Wonder why that is. The dem party is better off without the Clintons. If you would say the same about the Trumps and conservative politics we could begin to talk.

Just like she was the lock in 2008. In 2014, Warren was just as big. But you don't follow dem politics, so you wouldn't know. Was i right about the daily caller?
 
But Trump's pay to play schemes don't bother you. Wonder why that is. The dem party is better off without the Clintons. If you would say the same about the Trumps and conservative politics we could begin to talk.
Exactly. Maybe I've missed something, but I've never seen Chris, or Ghost, or Nevele say or acknowledge one negative thing about Trump. (Though sometimes they do so without even being aware of it. E.g., one of them, I think it was Ghost (?), posted a link to a video that supposedly told the real truth about Ukraine. I actually had some agreement with the points made, but ironically, if that poster supported those points, it would be a damning indictment of Trump, who clearly supports the system the video charges is illegitimate).

Many of us who voted for Clinton and/or Obama have criticized them severely. Even Dem candidates I'm more supportive of, such as Sanders and Warren, I have no problem voicing major concerns about.

I don't see many Trump voters willing to criticize him. It's hard for me to take anyone's politics seriously when they refuse to tolerate any criticism about some particular public figure.
 
Chris you and Neve look to be caught up in the politics of it all. As a young man, Trump was a liar. As a husband and father, again a liar. Trump tried to underhandly foil his father's will. All long before he held this office. He dodged taxes, he dodged military service.. Again all before and completely separate from any of his political actions.
before and during Trump's presidency he has been established in court as a fraud. With and without the benefits of the worlds highest office.
Trump's conduct while in office,as you point out can be interpreted very subjectively. You say lying about the payments to bedmates w political funds is not a big deal.I certainly don't know the answer,but the American rule of law makes clear that we should find out one way or another. I wish you luck.
but please allow me to give you a couple of solid reasons O think Trump should face the death penalty.
making health care and food for children in the United States harder to get and less plentiful.
making it harder for children in America to go to school.
And as a bonus to allow for more punishment, reducing the access to hospital care for poor people..and specifically children.
there can be no reason for this behavior..absolutely no excuse on earth to take food from kids.
And be very careful as you begin to type a conservative,full circle answer. Trump is in office to serve those who can't help themselves. Not by engaging in a dialog w parents or caregivers that he might not like. The children need help,if the guardian of the child can't, it's Trump's job.
The entire tough love BS is exactly that..BS.
If a welfare mother doesn't conform,that's an issue for certain. But if the parents are dysfunctional in some way,cutting off money to feed their children, slicing medical money because you are mad at the child's dad or mom..it's not cruel it's criminal
 
Obama was sworn in on January 20, 2009. The recession was over officially in June, 2009. In June of 2009 the DOW was near the bottom at 8,700. By the time Trump won the DOW was about 17,900. Three years and a bit later the DOW closed yesterday at 28,000. It's easy to look at GDP and compare, U-6 & general unemployment, wage increases, minority and women employment levels, manufacturing, etc. Go ahead and compare.
Love your numbers and I did compare...but they "trumps growth" is much less than what actually happened.
The Dow hit a base of 7,223 in March of '09, still hung over from the recession whether it was "officially" over or not. The market ran up to 19,965 by Jan 6th, 2017. The difference of 12,742 points is an increase of 176% of the recession bottom. Obama could even get some upside affect to month's end that closed around 20,000.

Trump; by your acute financial judgment was responsible for a rise of 8,000 pts. That's 40% in simple math; not even the same ballpark and enjoying the artificial stimulation of unprecedented corporate give backs that are now spent, never to return. Ask the autoworkers that Trump's Midwest campaign convinced he would save and improve jobs, the coal miners he swore would have prosperity in an industry that's now bankrupt, farmers who can't sell soybeans....the list is extensive.

As I said; no President should claim excessive credit for huge economic movement unless they are Huuuuuge idiots or lucky.
 
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But Trump's pay to play schemes don't bother you. Wonder why that is. The dem party is better off without the Clintons. If you would say the same about the Trumps and conservative politics we could begin to talk.

Just like she was the lock in 2008. In 2014, Warren was just as big. But you don't follow dem politics, so you wouldn't know. Was i right about the daily caller?
Nope on Daily Caller. I'm not the biggest Ben Shapiro fan but I do think he has a POV worth hearing.

https://summit.news/2019/11/19/clinton-foundation-files-16-8-million-loss/

Trump is not a Conservative. He's not a Republican. He's a Nationalist and he's exposing America haters worldwide. People as varied as George Bush.. to George Soros. I read where Rudy has been described as a hand grenade. It's not Rudy, it's Trump. Trump is the hand grenade. I don't care much about "party's." I'm not loyal to them. Think of Trump as the Right's version of Antifa.

I follow Dem politics clear up to the point of vomiting. Then I take a breather and start anew.
 
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Exactly. Maybe I've missed something, but I've never seen Chris, or Ghost, or Nevele say or acknowledge one negative thing about Trump. (Though sometimes they do so without even being aware of it. E.g., one of them, I think it was Ghost (?), posted a link to a video that supposedly told the real truth about Ukraine. I actually had some agreement with the points made, but ironically, if that poster supported those points, it would be a damning indictment of Trump, who clearly supports the system the video charges is illegitimate).

Many of us who voted for Clinton and/or Obama have criticized them severely. Even Dem candidates I'm more supportive of, such as Sanders and Warren, I have no problem voicing major concerns about.

I don't see many Trump voters willing to criticize him. It's hard for me to take anyone's politics seriously when they refuse to tolerate any criticism about some particular public figure.
Trump is an A-hole. I'm used to dealing with them, male and female. To be fair, Obama was an A-hole but a passive-aggressive one. I can't stand passive-aggressive because it's insulting to intelligence everywhere. With Trump, what you see is what you get. I can live with that even if I love or hate his policy.

Beyond that we have an election every four years. This POTUS clearly has not done anything rising to an impeachable offense yet Schiff persists. Why have elections? Really.. what now is the point?
 
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Chris you and Neve look to be caught up in the politics of it all. As a young man, Trump was a liar. As a husband and father, again a liar. Trump tried to underhandly foil his father's will. All long before he held this office. He dodged taxes, he dodged military service.. Again all before and completely separate from any of his political actions.
before and during Trump's presidency he has been established in court as a fraud. With and without the benefits of the worlds highest office.
Trump's conduct while in office,as you point out can be interpreted very subjectively. You say lying about the payments to bedmates w political funds is not a big deal.I certainly don't know the answer,but the American rule of law makes clear that we should find out one way or another. I wish you luck.
but please allow me to give you a couple of solid reasons O think Trump should face the death penalty.
making health care and food for children in the United States harder to get and less plentiful.
making it harder for children in America to go to school.
And as a bonus to allow for more punishment, reducing the access to hospital care for poor people..and specifically children.
there can be no reason for this behavior..absolutely no excuse on earth to take food from kids.
And be very careful as you begin to type a conservative,full circle answer. Trump is in office to serve those who can't help themselves. Not by engaging in a dialog w parents or caregivers that he might not like. The children need help,if the guardian of the child can't, it's Trump's job.
The entire tough love BS is exactly that..BS.
If a welfare mother doesn't conform,that's an issue for certain. But if the parents are dysfunctional in some way,cutting off money to feed their children, slicing medical money because you are mad at the child's dad or mom..it's not cruel it's criminal
Let us all thank God you have no influence and no power.
 
Reactions: nevele neves
Oct 28, 2019
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Love your numbers and I did compare...but they "trumps growth" is much less than what actually happened.
The Dow hit a base of 7,223 in March of '09, still hung over from the recession whether it was "officially" over or not. The market ran up to 19,965 by Jan 6th, 2017. The difference of 12,742 points is an increase of 176% of the recession bottom. Obama could even get some upside affect to month's end that closed around 20,000.

Trump; by your acute financial judgment was responsible for a rise of 8,000 pts. That's 40% in simple math; not even the same ballpark and enjoying the artificial stimulation of unprecedented corporate give backs that are now spent, never to return. Ask the autoworkers that Trump's Midwest campaign convinced he would save and improve jobs, the coal miners he swore would have prosperity in an industry that's now bankrupt, farmers who can't sell soybeans....the list is extensive.

As I said; no President should claim excessive credit for huge economic movement unless they are Huuuuuge idiots or lucky.
uh, quoting the DOW at the end of the recession. Obama was in office office eight years. Trump didn't have the benefit of a 50% drop in the DOW to pad his numbers. Had Obama had half the business acumen Trump has he would have been anointed King.

You can pretend a champion for the American Economy has no benefit all you want. What you get, ultimately, is a leader who does not believe in America. You get Obama.
 
Trump is the hand grenade
Ah, yes, the delusionary view that the U.S. needs a hand grenade, held by people who have no clue at all about how complex systems evolve. The entire history of evolution on earth provides numerous lessons on how hand grenades usually work out. The same way things work out whenever people let their anger get the best of their rationality.

Had Obama had half the business acumen Trump has he would have been anointed King.
You mean, if he had been willing to say FU to all the people protected by regulations. Any idiot who cares nothing at all but the rich getting richer can do that.
 
uh, quoting the DOW at the end of the recession. Obama was in office office eight years. Trump didn't have the benefit of a 50% drop in the DOW to pad his numbers. Had Obama had half the business acumen Trump has he would have been anointed King.

You can pretend a champion for the American Economy has no benefit all you want. What you get, ultimately, is a leader who does not believe in America. You get Obama.
We're discussing the relevance of the DOW because you brought it into the discussion. The fact that you would quote something without actually checking the metrics doesn't improve your argument. And I never suggested that a champion of the economy isn't one of the first jobs of the highest US office. The jingoistic version of Trump's chamber of commerce pitch is, like so much of his speech nothing more than a diversion. Look here at this threat while we manipulate a fundamental market there...it's not very sophisticated.

This is also has to be the first time a leader has inherited a down-trending economy, following your defined "end of the recession" numbers and is judged to have the "benefit of a 50% drop...to pad his numbers". Let's add that ridiculous theory to the other advantage Obama had: being the first black president in a country filled with angry racists that swore for eight years about how he was ruining the country. Also; a Republican party that refused to let up on a constant search for a way to shame him out of office.

That he survived and helped the US economy is impressive.

Much more so than a self-proclaimed genius, known to be one of the worst businessmen in New York (how many New Yorkers voted for him?) that embraces the newest version of America's proudest bastion of small KKK minds. The man squatting in the WH believes in nothing, cares for no one (including you...think hard) and is loyal to no one or any country. Trump defining any of the pressure he faces as a "lynching" is so vainly pathetic and insecure we'd need him out of office just for that.
 
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Ah, yes, the delusionary view that the U.S. needs a hand grenade, held by people who have no clue at all about how complex systems evolve. The entire history of evolution on earth provides numerous lessons on how hand grenades usually work out. The same way things work out whenever people let their anger get the best of their rationality.



You mean, if he had been willing to say FU to all the people protected by regulations. Any idiot who cares nothing at all but the rich getting richer can do that.
Which people would that be?

The Obama Admin did that with some brilliance. Just look at his record.
 
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The fact that you would quote something without actually checking the metrics doesn't improve your argument.
I quoted the DOW at the "end" of the recession because I was referring to when the recession officially ended. See how that works?

And I never suggested that a champion of the economy isn't one of the first jobs of the highest US office.
I will never understand - considering how hard the economic hit was - why Obama didn't actually focus like a laser beam on the economy rather than just pay lip service to it.

it's not very sophisticated.
You arrive here by not paying attention. For the first time in 65 years we are energy independent. Wages are increasing at rates not seen since Reagan with the lowest earners rates rising the fastest. Poverty has fallen to under 12% which is the best since the tail end of the Clinton Admin. Unemployment is the lowest since LBJ. Incomes for single parent female-led households rose 7.6% last year. The poverty rate among female-led households fell 2.7 percent for African Americans, and 4 percent for Hispanics. USMCA will reset much of the disastrous effects of NAFTA, China will deal when POTUS gets re-elected.

There's so much more here and make no mistake - this is why Democrats are taking their shot now. They can not win against this economic backdrop and they know it. They will not cooperate with POTUS on USMCA or China or anything else because their Keynesian-Theory-on-steroids with Bernie, Warren and Buttigieg will not fly in a General Election and they have to stop the surging economic performance. If they don't, they lose. If that is what you mean by lack of sophistication then we have some agreement.

This is also has to be the first time a leader has inherited a down-trending economy, following your defined "end of the recession" numbers and is judged to have the "benefit of a 50% drop...to pad his numbers".
The recession ended within a few months of the beginning of his admin. Historically our economy grows at a far more torrid pace post-recession. Again, if Obama was all that bright he would have left office in 2017 as possibly the best President ever.

Let's add that ridiculous theory to the other advantage Obama had: being the first black president in a country filled with angry racists that swore for eight years about how he was ruining the country.
A Country so filled with racists it elected a black man over white men - on two occasions - by wide margins. Sober people can disagree with destructive policy while not actually being racist, sexist, bigoted or homophobic. This nonsense you trot out is also, very, very tired.

Also; a Republican party that refused to let up on a constant search for a way to shame him out of office.
The Republican Party was reasonably pliable until Obama crammed ACA down their throat. Plenty of historical figures on both political spectrum's have stated the impossibility of passing sweeping legislation without bi-partisan support. Kind of like Pelosi and similar comments regarding the impeachment show going on right now.

Much more so than a self-proclaimed genius, known to be one of the worst businessmen in New York (how many New Yorkers voted for him?) that embraces the newest version of America's proudest bastion of small KKK minds. The man squatting in the WH believes in nothing, cares for no one (including you...think hard) and is loyal to no one or any country. Trump defining any of the pressure he faces as a "lynching" is so vainly pathetic and insecure we'd need him out of office just for that.
Derangement Syndrome.
 
Trump is an A-hole. I'm used to dealing with them, male and female. To be fair, Obama was an A-hole but a passive-aggressive one. I can't stand passive-aggressive because it's insulting to intelligence everywhere. With Trump, what you see is what you get. I can live with that even if I love or hate his policy.

Beyond that we have an election every four years. This POTUS clearly has not done anything rising to an impeachable offense yet Schiff persists. Why have elections? Really.. what now is the point?
Hear Hear!!
What 'policy'?? He's done nothing but whine, abuse, ignore, bully.
Clearly, to whom? You..righto...
-Bribery
-Obstruction of justice/congress
-Perjury

The point is that trump is corrupt. The point is the impeachment is a result of HIS words and deeds. Not the 'system', as the GOP is so fond of repeating. Rooting out corruption in Ukraine..another jordan BS talking point..The corruption's name was guiliani..as he pushed this dope donnie to withhold $ funds to Ukraine for dirt on Biden..along with that snake rudy..and got caught. As so many have said, along with GOP, trump didn't give a shite about Ukraine but hurting Biden.

OBTW-more trump lies, bluster and BS here..playing to his knuckledragging deplorable base..

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/471246-trump-suggests-pelosi-is-putting-trade-deal-at-risk
-
 
Hear Hear!!
What 'policy'?? He's done nothing but whine, abuse, ignore, bully.
Clearly, to whom? You..righto...
-Bribery
-Obstruction of justice/congress
-Perjury

The point is that trump is corrupt. The point is the impeachment is a result of HIS words and deeds. Not the 'system', as the GOP is so fond of repeating. Rooting out corruption in Ukraine..another jordan BS talking point..The corruption's name was guiliani..as he pushed this dope donnie to withhold $ funds to Ukraine for dirt on Biden..along with that snake rudy..and got caught. As so many have said, along with GOP, trump didn't give a shite about Ukraine but hurting Biden.

OBTW-more trump lies, bluster and BS here..playing to his knuckledragging deplorable base..

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/471246-trump-suggests-pelosi-is-putting-trade-deal-at-risk
-
as if Biden posed any political threat to Trump

the guy is a senile trainwreck... if anything it helps Trump to elevate Biden to the top of the Democrat nomination consideration

the absence of critical thought among your persuasion is evident on any issues relating to Trump

the CIA have done a great job of psychologically manipulating the vulnerable
 
Exactly. Maybe I've missed something, but I've never seen Chris, or Ghost, or Nevele say or acknowledge one negative thing about Trump. (Though sometimes they do so without even being aware of it. E.g., one of them, I think it was Ghost (?), posted a link to a video that supposedly told the real truth about Ukraine. I actually had some agreement with the points made, but ironically, if that poster supported those points, it would be a damning indictment of Trump, who clearly supports the system the video charges is illegitimate).

Many of us who voted for Clinton and/or Obama have criticized them severely. Even Dem candidates I'm more supportive of, such as Sanders and Warren, I have no problem voicing major concerns about.

I don't see many Trump voters willing to criticize him. It's hard for me to take anyone's politics seriously when they refuse to tolerate any criticism about some particular public figure.
Or Hitch who only stops by to drag Obama and his cult followers, while steadfastly ignoring what is going on with Trump and his movement. Trump isn't even very conservative, so you would think that there would be some grounds to complain or critique. <Nothing but crickets chirping.> The lack of critical analysis is true with a lot of the focus groups they show on CNN too. His supporters will claim that they didn't elect him because he was a choir-boy, but then in the next breath say that his bad behavior is a media driven narrative. Those that do speak out like Amash get banished from the party, creating a whole new partisan category (Never-Trumpers) whose opinions are totally disregarded.
Nope on Daily Caller. I'm not the biggest Ben Shapiro fan but I do think he has a POV worth hearing.

https://summit.news/2019/11/19/clinton-foundation-files-16-8-million-loss/

Trump is not a Conservative. He's not a Republican. He's a Nationalist and he's exposing America haters worldwide. People as varied as George Bush.. to George Soros. I read where Rudy has been described as a hand grenade. It's not Rudy, it's Trump. Trump is the hand grenade. I don't care much about "party's." I'm not loyal to them. Think of Trump as the Right's version of Antifa.

I follow Dem politics clear up to the point of vomiting. Then I take a breather and start anew.
Strongly disagree. He is a grifter.

The Right can't stand Antifa. They think it is a terrorist organization. The comparison eludes me. If your meaning is that they have chosen Trump as their 'fighter' to do the dirty work, I guess I can largely agree with that. But as mentioned above, people are not actually explicitly admitting this as their reasoning.
 

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