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Read the statute. Don’t change the subject.

It may be cathartic for you to think for yourself. You can start by reading the statute and stop believing everything CNN spoon feeds you.
Hey Chris they say in a previous post that it only covers the safety and security. I believe they are making the argument that the blowers safety would be in question.
Going back into this thread and I don't see any of them trying to support the safety of carter paige the former navy who happened to have done work for the cia. From the reading here it seems they are good with the way the fbi has handled your private citizens civil rights.
 
Just barely a week ago the idiocracy was running around talking about bribery and extortion among a litany of other impeachable offenses.

This week it‘s abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. No matter how hard the fools try they just can’t seem to hide the fact that they have settled on a verdict in search of a crime.

How about that Barry Berke show Nadler put on yesterday? Sort of forgets to swear the dude in, allows his testimony along with his colleagues then - and this has to be groundbreaking - Nadler has Berke saunter up to the dais and question his colleagues. Witness and prosecutor And was not under oath. As if that wasn’t bad enough it turns out Berke actully bought his way in to his position. If you haven't seen it, Matt Gaetz took exception to the complete BS on display:

View: https://youtu.be/ZgQiv9uSmEM




Again, the fools have the temerity to charge POTUS for non-participation in a show that is far less legitimate than one put on by Ringling Bros.
How much money was it? 36grand? what was the other guy's 100+ grand?
 
Nevele, you really need to learn to combine your posts. The new website has good multi-quoting software, unlike the last version. If you want to respond to a person, don't hit reply, hit quote. Once you have all the posts you will be replying to, hit the insert quotes button, then quote messages button and voila...
Hey Chris they say in a previous post that it only covers the safety and security. I believe they are making the argument that the blowers safety would be in question.
Going back into this thread and I don't see any of them trying to support the safety of carter paige the former navy who happened to have done work for the cia. From the reading here it seems they are good with the way the fbi has handled your private citizens civil rights.
Yeah I get that. I am guilty of laughing when I look at him also. If I mention something about the denture lady from cali they get all "butthurt" as busted says.
How much money was it? 36grand? what was the other guy's 100+ grand?
fat and bad hair.

sciff will be had for his serial killers eyes.
 
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Nevele, you really need to learn to combine your posts. The new website has good multi-quoting software, unlike the last version. If you want to respond to a person, don't hit reply, hit quote. Once you have all the posts you will be replying to, hit the insert quotes button, then quote messages button and voila...
im not sure about the quote functions thanks for the options.
 
Rather what republicans CLAIM Obama did in their fever dreams. The larger irony is that republicans see nothing wrong with what Trump actually did while claiming what Obama did is some deep state coup attempt. The GOP argument does not make any sense. Nor is it really designed to. It serves merely to muddy up the waters so Trump can continue to hold power.

View: https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1204458213820768262
Barr’s NBC interview is absolutely devastating to the then FBI leadership. I think, in particular, Comey, Yates and McCabe are likely in for some serious legal problems by the time Durham is done.

Obama actually far worse than what Trump is accused of, as did Joe Biden. March, 2012, in the middle of his campaign

President Obama: "On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space."

President Medvedev: "Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…"

President Obama: "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

President Medvedev: "I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir, and I stand with you."


So, Obama didn’t need the grief from Vlad on arming Ukraine, which he NEVER DID. Obama could talk tough and... Vlad gave him the space he asked for. Obama went on to defeat Romney in part with help and electioneering from Russia and Obama never sent lethal aid to Ukraine. How many Ukrainians died at the hands of Russians while Obama refused to help Ukraine in it’s fight against our enemy? This is light years worse than the Trump Zelensky phone call. It is not arguable.

Your post is either dumb or it is ignorant. Take your pick.
 
Nevele, you really need to learn to combine your posts. The new website has good multi-quoting software, unlike the last version. If you want to respond to a person, don't hit reply, hit quote. Once you have all the posts you will be replying to, hit the insert quotes button, then quote messages button and voila...
Thanks Dad.
 
If Cohen had anything to prove Trump used campaign funds to pay the women he would have produced the material.
Then why did Cohen go to jail? Is it illegal for a lawyer to pay a hooker? Do you think Cohen was the one having the relationship with the hooker, and tapped into the campaign finances to pay for it? Do you think Cohen just decided Trump would want him to pay the hooker, and went ahead and did it completely on his own? Do you think Cohen said to himself, I don't know if Trump wants this money paid to the hookers or not, but I'm going to go ahead and do it?

You sure can pretend to be dumb when it's in the interest of something you want to be true. You can also blissfully ignore a conclusion that is > 99% certain by claiming a bar of 100%, which you never remotely approach when making all your wild claims about Biden.

Show me where Trump said “if you don't investigate Burisma and the Biden’s you won’t get the military aid.” He said “do us a favor” which is a phrase he uses regularly.
Really? So Trump said to NATO countries, do me a favor and pay more of your share? He said to Mexcio, do me a favor and control the flow of emigrants to the U.S.? He said to China, do me a favor and stop ripping off the U.S. on trade?

If Trump really thought Biden was involved in corruption in Ukraine, why would he have to ask for a favor? Why wouldn't he just say, damn it, you should be investigating this? Not as a favor, but because you should want your country to be free of corruption. Why would it be a favor to Trump to have Zelensky announce an investigation against Biden if Biden really was corrupt? Why would it be a favor to Trump unless Trump had something personal to gain from an investigation into Biden, and he had no reason to demand this as a matter of course? And why did Trump only want an investigation announced, but showed little interest in the investigation actually being pursued?

If the favor wasn't connected to the withdrawal of the aid, why was it brought up immediately after discussion of the aid? Do you have trouble understanding what a Mafia boss means when, after pointing out that he knows where your family is, and sure wouldn't want anything to happen to them, he says that he wants you to do him a favor? Why was the aid in fact held up immediately after that? Why dd Zelensky complain that it was unfair to withhold aid for any reason at all?

Again, you pretend that 1.99 + 1.97 does not = very damned close to 4, and again, you wouldn't dream of being so anal about anything you want to be true.

Just barely a week ago the idiocracy was running around talking about bribery and extortion among a litany of other impeachable offenses.

This week it‘s abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. No matter how hard the fools try they just can’t seem to hide the fact that they have settled on a verdict in search of a crime.
it was first about Quid pro quo
then it was bribery
It's all the same, they're just different ways of stating that. Bribery, extortion and quid pro quo are all abuse of power, and any of those more specific terms describes what Trump was doing.

But you both know that.
 
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Then why did Cohen go to jail? Is it illegal for a lawyer to pay a hooker? Do you think Cohen was the one having the relationship with the hooker, and tapped into the campaign finances to pay for it? Do you think Cohen just decided Trump would want him to pay the hooker, and went ahead and did it completely on his own?

You sure can pretend to be dumb when it's in the interest of something you want to be true. You can also blissfully ignore a conclusion that is > 99% certain by claiming a bar of 100%, which you never remotely approach when making all your wild claims about Biden.



Show me where the President of the U.S. has to ask for a favor when telling a country to do something it's supposed to do. If Trump really thought Biden was involved in corruption in Ukraine, why would he have to ask for a favor? Why wouldn't he just say, damn it, you should be investigating this? Not as a favor, but because you should want your country to be free of corruption. Why would it be a favor to Trump to have Zelensky announce an investigation against Biden if Biden really was corrupt? And why did Trump only want an investigation announced, but showed little interest in the investigation actually being pursued?

And if the favor wasn't connected to the withdrawal of the aid, why was the aid in fact held up? Again, you pretend that 1.99 + 1.97 does not = very damned close to 4, and again, you wouldn't dream if being so anal about anything you want to be true.





It's all the same, they're just different ways of stating that. Bribery, extortion and quid pro quo are all abuse of power, and any of those more specific terms describes what Trump was doing.

But you both know that.
What will the Senate do? Will the house of reps vote be bipartisan?
 
What will the Senate do? Will the house of reps vote be bipartisan?
The Senate will vote not to convict, that has always been obvious. The House vote will not be bipartisan, that has always been obvious. I assume more House Dems will vote not to impeach than House Rs will vote to impeach.

None of which reflects on the merits of the case. The Dems were always going to lose, they still have to do this.
 
Hard to know. I must assume folks like BustedKnuckle don't value this Country's sovereignty. Having asked him directly on multiple occasions he won't answer.

I must therefore assume there are many more like BK. How many is the important question.
I just find it a curious question... as if it's actually likely to change, and there's some debate over it
seems odd that it's even come up
 
Then why did Cohen go to jail?
False statements and tax evasion. Super easy to pin down if you bother to look.


Do you think Cohen just decided Trump would want him to pay the hooker, and went ahead and did it completely on his own?
Yes. And its probably happened before.

You sure can pretend to be dumb when it's in the interest of something you want to be true. You can also blissfully ignore a conclusion that is > 99% certain by claiming a bar of 100%, which you never remotely approach when making all your wild claims about Biden.
I have no idea what this means.

Really? So Trump said to NATO countries, do me a favor and pay more of your share? He said to Mexcio, do me a favor and control the flow of emigrants to the U.S.? He said to China, do me a favor and stop ripping off the U.S. on trade?
Likely. Got a transcript? I can almost guarantee you “favor” will appear frequently.

If Trump really thought Biden was involved in corruption in Ukraine, why would he have to ask for a favor?
Because that is how he speaks. It is easily verified. Easily. Verified.

Why dd Zelensky complain that it was unfair to withhold aid for any reason at all?
My... get up to speed. Zelensky has said repeatedly there was no pressure and he didnt know aid was paused. Cherrypick from the Time piece all you like. If you are honest, you will post the entire piece. Go ahead.


Again, you pretend that 1.99 + 1.97 does not = very damned close to 4, and again, you wouldn't dream of being so anal about anything you want to be true.
WTF does this mean?

It's all the same, they're just different ways of stating that. Bribery, extortion and quid pro quo are all abuse of power, and any of those more specific terms describes what Trump was doing.

But you both know that.
The morally bankrupt party you support is impeaching POTUS for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.

It’s not all the same and you are certainly bright enough to know it.
 
I just find it a curious question... as if it's actually likely to change, and there's some debate over it
seems odd that it's even come up
The is a big cross section of the Progressive wing over here that is promoting One World Government George Soros Open Borders.

Safe to say I have nothing in common with Soros or his brain-dead followers.
 
Rather what republicans CLAIM Obama did in their fever dreams.
really? You're just going to deny now that the Russia investigation ever happened? Is your memory that short? ...the Russia investigation which Obama initiated when he ordered the FBI surveillance on Trump prior to the last election because of perceived risk to national security. However when Trump initiates an investigation of Biden for ties to Ukraine, its Trump that should be impeached?
 
Yes. And its probably happened before.
You're claiming that Cohen probably paid off Trump's hookers before. Don't you think if it happened before, Trump would know that, and would have either approved, or said, don't do that again? Don't you think that Trump, self-described must astute and genius businessman of all time, would know if his lawyer was making payments with money that was Trump's responsibility? Don't you think Cohen, as Trump's lawyer, had an understanding with him that he would make these payments whenever they came up? You really think he went totally rogue?

Come on. How many times does Trump have to be caught lying, about how he didn't know someone he in fact knew, never met someone he in fact met, never visited some place he did in fact visit, never did something he did in fact do, before it becomes obvious?

I have no idea what this means.
It means you require a standard of evidence against Trump that is nowhere remotely close to the standard you apply to political figures you don't care for.

Likely. Got a transcript? I can almost guarantee you “favor” will appear frequently.
A transcript of what? His talks with NATO, or Mexico or China? No, I don't have one. But if he did use the term favor, it would just support my point. That "favor" is only a relatively, for Trump, polite way of saying if you don't do such-and-such, I'm coming down on you. Because in each of those instances that's what happened.

And beyond that, it isn't relevant, because Trump had a right and a duty to negotiate with those countries. He had no such right or duty to withhold aid. Charlie Dent, a former Republican U.S. Representative, who served on several House Appropriations committees, has pointed this out. What Trump did was flat-out illegal.

Because that is how he speaks. It is easily verified. Easily. Verified.
Go ahead, post a link or two verifying this.

My... get up to speed. Zelensky has said repeatedly there was no pressure and he didnt know aid was paused. Cherrypick from the Time piece all you like. If you are honest, you will post the entire piece. Go ahead.
I won't post the entire piece, I will post this:

During the interview in his office in Kyiv, the comedian-turned-presidentdenied, as he has done in the past, that he and Trump never discussed a decision to withhold American aid to Ukraine for nearly two months in the context of a quid pro quo involving political favors, which are now at the center of the impeachment inquiry in Congress.

But he also pushed back on Trump’s recent claims about corruption in Ukraine, and questioned the fairness of Trump’s decision to freeze American aid. “If you’re our strategic partner, then you can’t go blocking anything for us,” he said. “I think that’s just about fairness. It’s not about a quid pro quo.”
The first passage indicates he never discussed Trump's decision to withhold aid. He never said that Trump didn't withhold aid, he said there never was a discussion about it. Why should there be? Trump already said do me a favor, then aid was promptly withdrawn. That Zelensky clearly understood the connection is plain in the second passage. He said it wasn't fair of Trump to withhold aid, which of course is correct. Trump is not even allowed by U.S. law to do that. It's not in his power.

Zelensky also said:

Look, I never talked to the President from the position of a quid pro quo. That’s not my thing. … I don’t want us to look like beggars.
Get it? He's not denying there was a quid pro quo. He's saying that's "not his thing." He's saying he wasn't going to play that game. He wasn't going to go along with it because it wasn't fair.

But you have to understand. We’re at war. If you’re our strategic partner, then you can’t go blocking anything for us. I think that’s just about fairness. It’s not about a quid pro quo. It just goes without saying.
You don't think that's an admission of being pressured by Trump? Why would he say that if aid wasn't withdrawn? And why would he make a big deal, in other parts of the interview, about how accusing Ukraine of corruption hurt the country's image, unless Trump did in fact accuse them of corruption?

Here’s what was reported when the two leaders met at the end of September at the UN in NY:

A reporter kicked things off with a pretty direct question to the Ukrainian president: Did he feel any pressure to investigate Joe Biden and Hunter Biden?

Zelensky answered by pointing directly to the summary released by the White House on Wednesday. “I think you read text. I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be involved to democratic open — elections,” he said, pausing to clarify with a translator. “Elections of USA. No.”

“Sure, we had — I think good phone call. It was normal. We spoke about many things, and I — so I think and you read it that nobody pushed me,” Zelensky concluded.
https://www.vox.com/2019/9/25/20883928/trump-ukraine-zelensky-transcript-united-nations

This is supposed to be evidence that Zelensky wasn’t pressured? Oh, come on. He says straight out he doesn’t want to be involved. That's a tipoff that he's going to be tactful, not factual. Then rather than denying pressure in the strongest possible terms , he says “you read it”—in other words, he wants people to go by the transcript, rather than describe what he actually felt when Trump asked for the favor. This is exactly what you would expect from someone who has reason to fear Trump, and doesn’t want to cross him. If Zelensky never felt pressure, why didn't he say so when asked? Why didn't he just say, oh, come on, there was never any pressure? Why did he stammer, and show reluctance to answering the question?

If there is one single thing Zelensky has emphasized time and again it's how dependent Ukraine is on American aid--which means he wants to stay in Trump's good graces. Do you really think he's going to hand Trump's head on a platter to his political enemies? The really telling part of this is not only his desire not to talk about this at all, but his reluctance to give Trump a ringing endorsement, to clear him of any pressure or quid pro quo once and for all, when he had the chance to do so.

WTF does this mean?
What I said before--you're hypocritical in the standards of evidence you apply.

The morally bankrupt party you support is impeaching POTUS for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.

Newsflash. Both parties are deficient morally. People who aren's severely biassed, and incapable of criticizing anything they favor, can admit this.

It’s not all the same and you are certainly bright enough to know it.
Of course it's the same. Did you read the articles of impeachment?

Using the powers of his high office, President Trump solicited the interference of a foreign government, Ukraine, in the 2020 United States Presidential election. He did so through a scheme or course of conduct that included soliciting the Government of Ukraine to publicly announce investigations that would benefit his reelection, harm the election prospects of a political opponent, and influence the 2020 United States Presidential election to his advantage. President Trump also sought to pressure the Government of Ukraine to take these steps by conditioning official United States Government acts of significant value to Ukraine on its public announcement of the investigations.
The act of "pressuring" someone to "take steps" for one's personal "benefit" is extortion or bribery. They are illegal forms of a quid pro quo, which is a more neutral term.

Interesting that many Republicans have no trouble at all seeing this. Of course, they aren't in Congress, desperately trying to remain in power, and can be honest about it.
 
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Don't look now but I think Hunter and Joe biden's communist chinese friends have invaded the forums.

This below is posted everywhere. Maybe they are looking for donations. I took the actual add out of it but maybe the chinese are sending bots out to help trump.

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Because "we" can't win the Presidency without a system that gives people in rural areas a vote weighted heavier than people in urban areas, who are actually in the large majority.
The elect college is a good thing.
Keeps places like new york and california from controlling the country. They get the representations from the house of reps - senate and actual population electoral votes.

I mentioned a while back about how california has issues with many things, regulations , crap on the streets , and tax rates. Causing people and businesses to leave. here is a good example of what is going on there. Maybe denture lady should be trying to actually do things besides impeachment which the country is rejecting.
.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/10/oracle-moving-openworld-from-san-francisco-to-las-vegas-caesars-forum.html
 
The is a big cross section of the Progressive wing over here that is promoting One World Government George Soros Open Borders.

Safe to say I have nothing in common with Soros or his brain-dead followers.
soros the koch , paul singer they are all a bunch of manipulators that the country should block them from donating any money to anyone.
 
trump living in an alternate reality..what a surprise. He really DOES think he's the smartest guy in the room..but he's not, even when he's the only guy in the room.
Perhaps the strangest part of the impeachment process against President Donald Trump is its origin: Trump's own false belief that somehow the government of Ukraine has been secretly working against him.
And flunkies like barr and pompeo and mulvaney walk in lock step with this moron, even tho they KNOW he's FOS..
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-impeachment-false-beliefs-step-change-conservative-thinking-2019-12
 
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