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Sep 10, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Why are you so freaked out about right-to-work legislation? The effects haven't even been seen yet. Give it a few years... see what happens.
I'm not freaked out about it, Michiganders are. The people who have to live with it.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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VeloCity said:
That you continue being enamored with Andrew Sullivan is pretty telling.

Rubio: Raising taxes won’t create private sector jobs.

Sulllivan: They did in the 1990s.

Cool. Sullivan's got the secret sauce. Just raise taxes and jobs will suddenly appear. Except Clinton diesagrees:confused:

Former President Bill Clinton tells Newsmax that Washington should not raise taxes until the slumping economy is turned around — and says President Obama’s plan to increase taxes on the wealthy won’t solve the debt problem
Those comments were a little less than 18 months ago.

So last quarters negative GDP growth equate to a "turned around" economy according to Sullivan? Or maybe he just doesn't know WTF he's talking about. Yeah, that's probably it.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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VeloCity said:
Like climate change, just can't squeeze the square peg of reality into that round hole of ideology, eh?
I suppose. When will I come to understand the govt really is the only answer?

As Amster said, I'll stop beating my head against the wall when I start bleeding.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Speaking of Bobby Jindal, how's he doing these days?

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/02/jindal-popularity-plummets-landrieu-leads-republicans-for-re-election.html

When PPP last polled Louisiana in 2010, Bobby Jindal was one of the most popular Governors in the country. 58% of voters approved of the job he was doing to just 34% who disapproved. Over the last two and a half years though there's been a massive downward shift in Jindal's popularity, and he is now one of the most unpopular Governors in the country. Just 37% of voters now think he's doing a good job to 57% who are unhappy with him.

The decline in Jindal's popularity cuts across party lines. Where he was at 81/13 with Republicans in August 2010, now it's 59/35. Where he was at 67/22 with independents back then, now he's at 41/54. And what was a higher than normal amount of crossover support from Democrats at 33/58 is now 15/78. There was a time when Jindal probably would have been seen as a slam dunk candidate for Republicans against Mary Landrieu in 2014. But now he actually trails Landrieu 49/41 in a hypothetical match up.

Trailing Landrieu hardly puts Jindal alone among Louisiana Republicans. She leads all seven we tested against her, by margins ranging from 3 to 12 points.
Might explain why he's been trying to position himself as the voice of reason in the GOP lately. Failing, but trying.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Yeah, it's killing Wisconsonites too.
Well, I don't put much stock in these sorts of things, but Forbes latest state rankings has WI at 42nd for best states to do business and 43rd in growth prospects, and it's job growth is projected to be second worst in the country through 2016.

And granted this is from April, but I doubt much has changed in 9 months.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/business/wisconsin-job-losses-highest-in-nation-for-last-months-federal/article_955e6c9a-8e4d-11e1-aba4-001a4bcf887a.html

A more recent analysis.

http://www.isthmus.com/isthmus/article.php?article=39011

And this.

http://www.cows.org/wisconsin-job-watch_1

Doesn't seem like rtw has done anything, really, other than to cut worker's wages and benefits. Certainly hasn't done anything for attracting business or job growth. But the economy was never really the point of rtw's though, was it? Politics was the point.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Erm, it's a little early for the politics of personal destruction, isn't it?
Can't believe you said that with a straight face. Anyway, you were the one who said that politicians were corrupt. I was just asking if Rubio qualifies.

Rubio worries you guys that much? Good to know.
Rubio worries me about as much as Bobby Jindal worries me.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Good greif...

State lacks doctors to meet demand of national healthcare law

As the state moves to expand healthcare coverage to millions of Californians under President Obama's healthcare law, it faces a major obstacle: There aren't enough doctors to treat a crush of newly insured patients.

Some lawmakers want to fill the gap by redefining who can provide healthcare.

They are working on proposals that would allow physician assistants to treat more patients and nurse practitioners to set up independent practices. Pharmacists and optometrists could act as primary care providers, diagnosing and managing some chronic illnesses, such as diabetes and high-blood pressure.

"We're going to be mandating that every single person in this state have insurance," said state Sen. Ed Hernandez (D-West Covina), chairman of the Senate Health Committee and leader of the effort to expand professional boundaries. "What good is it if they are going to have a health insurance card but no access to doctors?"
Geebus... we don't have enough doctors so what do we do? Change the definition of what a doctor is.

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-me-doctors-20130210,0,1509396.story
 
Nov 8, 2012
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VeloCity said:
Well, I don't put much stock in these sorts of things, but Forbes latest state rankings has WI at 42nd for best states to do business and 43rd in growth prospects, and it's job growth is projected to be second worst in the country through 2016.

And granted this is from April, but I doubt much has changed in 9 months.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/business/wisconsin-job-losses-highest-in-nation-for-last-months-federal/article_955e6c9a-8e4d-11e1-aba4-001a4bcf887a.html

A more recent analysis.

http://www.isthmus.com/isthmus/article.php?article=39011

And this.

http://www.cows.org/wisconsin-job-watch_1

Doesn't seem like rtw has done anything, really, other than to cut worker's wages and benefits. Certainly hasn't done anything for attracting business or job growth. But the economy was never really the point of rtw's though, was it? Politics was the point.
Good thing Texas is rated so high.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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VeloCity said:
Well, I don't put much stock in these sorts of things, but Forbes latest state rankings has WI at 42nd for best states to do business and 43rd in growth prospects, and it's job growth is projected to be second worst in the country through 2016.

And granted this is from April, but I doubt much has changed in 9 months.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/business/wisconsin-job-losses-highest-in-nation-for-last-months-federal/article_955e6c9a-8e4d-11e1-aba4-001a4bcf887a.html

A more recent analysis.

http://www.isthmus.com/isthmus/article.php?article=39011

And this.

http://www.cows.org/wisconsin-job-watch_1

Doesn't seem like rtw has done anything, really, other than to cut worker's wages and benefits. Certainly hasn't done anything for attracting business or job growth. But the economy was never really the point of rtw's though, was it? Politics was the point.
Banks bullish about Wisconsin’s economy

Fall 2012 PDF report
http://www.revenue.wi.gov/ra/econ/index.html

http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2012/09/wisconsin-turnaround/index.php

But I understand why you want Wisconsin to fail.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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rhubroma said:
There are two people, in the entire world, engaged in a chess match for which there can be no winner...even if the end result matters less than how the game was played.
It's not really a fair match but I've been exceptionally bored lately.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
But I understand why you want Wisconsin to fail.
I don't. I want them to do well. That's why rtw is such a joke - it has nothing to do with growing the economy or improving worker's lives, it's a cheap and desperate political move by Rs to undermine union support for Ds by busting up the unions.

Why do you think the Rs in Michigan had to sneak their rtw legislation through? Why do you think Snyder's approval rating is now in the 30s? One would think if it was really doing people good, they'd love it. Clearly they don't - Snyder's approval is now in the 30s and there's a good chance the Ds will pick up the governorship and the state legislature, all because the Rs are so ****ing thick that it didn't occur to them that their political games might not be too popular with the electorate.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
It's not really a fair match
True, considering that reality has a liberal bias, it really wasn't fair from the very beginning. How're those Romney polls working out?
 
Nov 8, 2012
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VeloCity said:
I don't. I want them to do well. That's why rtw is such a joke - it has nothing to do with growing the economy or improving worker's lives, it's a cheap and desperate political move by Rs to undermine union support for Ds by busting up the unions.

Why do you think the Rs in Michigan had to sneak their rtw legislation through? Why do you think Snyder's approval rating is now in the 30s? One would think if it was really doing people good, they'd love it. Clearly they don't - Snyder's approval is now in the 30s and there's a good chance the Ds will pick up the governorship and the state legislature, all because the Rs are so ****ing thick that it didn't occur to them that their political games might not be too popular with the electorate.
Funny how rtw laws are enacted and union workers flee their union as fast as they can.

Not at all hard to figure out why.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/24/business/union-membership-drops-despite-job-growth.html?_r=2&

Snyder was sliding before RTW. He knows, as you don't seem to, that next door States have RTW and , in order to compete, he needed to give workers (and business) choice.

You are pro-choice... except when you aren't. Just more of the same.

Thje good news is there is always another election, or even recall. That didn't work out so well for the unions in WI, did it?
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Funny how rtw laws are enacted and union workers flee their union as fast as they can.

Not at all hard to figure out why.
Nope. They still get all the benefits of union protection without having to pay for it. Who'd turn that away? Wait until the unions smarten up and start refusing to negotiate on behalf of non-dues-paying workers.

Snyder was sliding before RTW.

Thje good news is there is always another election, or even recall.
There was an election. Ds were set to gain seats in the MI state legislature. Outgoing Rs, in a fit of pique, rammed through rtw before the Ds could be seated. The people spoke; the Rs and Snyder gave them the finger.

Public Policy Polling runs a few tests on the new "right to work" legislation passed in the Michigan lame duck session. By every measure, voters dislike it and have turned on the politicians responsible for it. Gov. Rick Snyder's 2010 opponent, whom he defeated in an 18-point landslide, now leads him by 11 points. Democrats lead a trial heat for new legislative elections -- 23 months away -- by 25 points. A lot of results like that. This is the problem with something perceived as a "power grab."Only 41% of voters in the state support the right to work legislation, while 51% are opposed to it. If voters got to decide the issue directly only 40% of them say they would vote to keep the law enacted, while 49% would vote to overturn it. http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/12/18/poll_michigan_s_new_right_to_work_law_is_widely_hated.html
And the Rs knew that it was unpopular, which is why they attached it to a revenue bill which makes it impossible to overturn by referendum. Now why in the world would they need to protect it from Michigan voters?

Maybe this is why:

The data on wages tell a fairly clear story. Of the top 10 states in per capita income in 2011, seven were not right-to work states. Of the bottom 10 states with the lowest per capital income, seven were right to work states.

“There is a lot of evidence that wages and benefits are lower in right-to-work states. There’s a redistribution of wages and benefits toward owners’ capital,” Belman said
 
Nov 8, 2012
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VeloCity said:
Nope. They still get all the benefits of union protection without having to pay for it. Who'd turn that away? Wait until the unions smarten up and start refusing to negotiate on behalf of non-dues-paying workers.

There was an election. Ds were set to gain seats in the MI state legislature. Outgoing Rs, in a fit of pique, rammed through rtw before the Ds could be seated. The people spoke; the Rs and Snyder gave them the finger.

And the Rs knew that it was unpopular, which is why they attached it to a revenue bill. People don't like power grabs. Imagine that.
Who'd turn that away?
Nobody that believed in their union. Funny how that works, isn't it? What about union membership slide in the rest of the country?

Whoops.

There was an election. Ds were set to gain seats in the MI state legislature. Outgoing Rs, in a fit of pique, rammed through rtw before the Ds could be seated. The people spoke; the Rs and Snyder gave them the finger.
Oh, you mean the legislated in a lame duck session? As opposed to the D's in Wisconsin who fled the State and hid so as to try and gin-up public outcry. Pathetic, but they are democrats after all.

People don't like power grabs. Imagine that
Agreed. The willingness of this President to bypass the legislative branch is remarkable.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Looks like the GAO is now in on the hoax as well. Wonder how much they're getting under the table?

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/283149-major-report-adds-climate-change-to-high-risks-facing-us-gov

The Government Accountability Office (GAO), in its biennial list of high-risk areas facing government operations, warned Thursday that the U.S. needs a better cross-government approach to a threat that’s creating huge financial exposure.

“Climate change creates significant financial risks for the federal government, which owns extensive infrastructure, such as defense installations; insures property through the National Flood Insurance Program; and provides emergency aid in response to natural disasters,” the report states.

“The federal government is not well positioned to address the fiscal exposure presented by climate change, and needs a government wide strategic approach with strong leadership to manage related risks,” GAO concludes.
Course, one would think that if conservatives were really concerned about the economy, they'd sit up and take notice instead of insisting that because it doesn't fit anywhere into their ideology then it can't possibly be happening. But one would be wrong.
 
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