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Nov 8, 2012
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ChrisE said:
He's saying he voted for the lesser of two evils. And yes, no matter what wingnut is running the Dem is usually the lesser of two evils in the reality based community.
Uh huh.... got yourself a real doozy this time.

Just so we are clear, I'm pretty well versed in the voting for the lesser of two evils.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
How many constitutionally guaranteed rights have to be shredded before you start to become uncomfortable?
Lol . Coming from the guy who has, if I am not mistaken, at one point quoted, C. SaurKrauthammer, to justify the use of torture because... scary, evildoers, war, and who has openly mocked Holder for attempting to dismantle GTMO, move suspects held in indefinite detention to the mainland, and try them in Federal Court, that is grand...

The first time you saw the text of the patriot act, you didn't start to feel uncomfortable?

As I said before, Congress is mainly to blame:

Sen­ior Oba­ma ad­min­is­tra­tion of­fi­cials, in­clud­ing the di­rec­tors of the Fed­eral Bu­reau of In­ves­ti­ga­tion and of na­tion­al in­tel­li­gence, have held 13 clas­si­fied hear­ings and brief­in­gs for mem­bers of Con­gress since 2009 to ex­plain the broad au­thor­ity they say they have to sweep up elec­tron­ic records for na­tion­al se­cu­rity pur­poses, a sen­ior ad­min­is­tra­tion of­fi­cial said Sat­ur­day.

...

But Sen­a­tor Rich­ard J. Durbin of Il­li­nois, the Sen­ate’s No. 2 Dem­o­crat, draws a dis­tinc­tion be­tween the hold­ing of such brief­in­gs and the in­formed con­sent of Con­gress. Very few law­mak­ers avail them­selves of such brief­in­gs, he sug­gest­ed, and on­ly the most sen­ior lead­ers are kept fully abreast of in­tel­li­gence ac­tiv­i­ties.
“You can count on two hands the num­ber of peo­ple in Con­gress who re­al­ly know,” he said in an in­ter­view on Fri­day
Maybe get of your @$$ and start showing up for briefings about programs that fundamentally affect the relationship between Government and its Citizens, instead of renaming post offices or holding speeches at Chinese Drywall Caucus meetings.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
As I said before, Congress is mainly to blame:

Maybe get of your @$$ and start showing up for briefings about programs that fundamentally affect the relationship between Government and its Citizens, instead of renaming post offices or holding speeches at Chinese Drywall Caucus meetings.
The only ones who really knew were the ones on the intelligence committees, and they are forbidden to talk about it. The rest of Congress gets summaries, which contain bogus statistics. When they saw stats like ~200 requests are brought to the FISA star chamber in a year, they probably assumed ~200 potential threats had been identified and there was probable cause to investigated further, not that a single one of those requests could be used to spy on 100 million Americans.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Bala Verde said:
Lol . Coming from the guy who has, if I am not mistaken, at one point quoted, C. SaurKrauthammer, to justify the use of torture because... scary, evildoers, war, and who has openly mocked Holder for attempting to dismantle GTMO, move suspects held in indefinite detention to the mainland, and try them in Federal Court, that is grand...

The first time you saw the text of the patriot act, you didn't start to feel uncomfortable?

As I said before, Congress is mainly to blame:



Maybe get of your @$$ and start showing up for briefings about programs that fundamentally affect the relationship between Government and its Citizens, instead of renaming post offices or holding speeches at Chinese Drywall Caucus meetings.
I think we can disagree on the details of what to do with those still at Gitmo, but Holder wanting to try KSM in NY City was disgraceful. And with that POS, it was just the tip of the iceberg.

It's interesting when an author of the Patriot Act is real uncomfortable with the latest NSA news. Maybe it's just politics, or maybe Obama has taken that ball and has run with it.

Interestingly, you don't draw much distinction between enemy combatants and American citizens, or is my perception wrong?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
I think we can disagree on the details of what to do with those still at Gitmo, but Holder wanting to try KSM in NY City was disgraceful. And with that POS, it was just the tip of the iceberg.
How dare they try someone using the regular justice system, which has proven robust for hundreds of years, instead of a military kangaroo court that will ignore scores of torture sessions inflicted by Bush's war criminals. Disgraceful!

Scott SoCal said:
Interestingly, you don't draw much distinction between enemy combatants and American citizens, or is my perception wrong?
All men are created equal unless King Obama decides they are enemy combatants. Then they can be treated like cockroaches.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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BroDeal said:
All men are created equal unless King Obama decides they are enemy combatants. Then they can be treated like cockroaches.
So Al-Awlaki wasn't a combatant then?

American or not, he deserved to wiped off the face of the earth for the **** he preached on the internet.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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BroDeal said:
How dare they try someone using the regular justice system, which has proven robust for hundreds of years, instead of a military kangaroo court that will ignore scores of torture sessions inflicted by Bush's war criminals. Disgraceful!



All men are created equal unless King Obama decides they are enemy combatants. Then they can be treated like cockroaches.
Created equal? Absolutely.

But, at some point after creation, you try and blow me and my family up to make a political point and... Am I am being a honest as I can, l don't give a **** how you are treated.

Fair enough?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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gooner said:
So Al-Awlaki wasn't a combatant then?

American or not, he deserved to wiped off the face of the earth for the **** he preached on the internet.
Nice to see you support killing Americans without trial. Sieg heil!

If the government had the evidence then he should have been indicted but they did not even bother to try.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Created equal? Absolutely.

But, at some point after creation, you try and blow me and my family up to make a political point and... Am I am being a honest as I can, l don't give a **** how you are treated.

Fair enough?
That is why we have courts. To weight the evidence and decide on a just punishment instead of you, gooner, or King Obama unilaterally making the decision.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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BroDeal said:
That is why we have courts. To weight the evidence and decide on a just punishment instead of you, gooner, or King Obama unilaterally making the decision.
Fine. Try them in court. I really don't have a problem with that. Interesting tho, those still at Gitmo literally have no homes. Their home countries won't take them back. What do they know that we don't?

KSM in NY city was a bit over the top, imho. As insensitive as it gets.
 
May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
Fine. Try them in court. I really don't have a problem with that. Interesting tho, those still at Gitmo literally have no homes. Their home countries won't take them back. What do they know that we don't?

KSM in NY city was a bit over the top, imho. As insensitive as it gets.
Insensitive to try him in the place he committed his crime? Nice talking point, but I would suggest that is EXACTLY the place to try him. You guys are great on propaganda (its how you shoved the "Patriot" Act down our throats), but short on critical thinking sometimes.
 
ChewbaccaD said:
Insensitive to try him in the place he committed his crime? Nice talking point, but I would suggest that is EXACTLY the place to try him. You guys are great on propaganda (its how you shoved the "Patriot" Act down our throats), but short on critical thinking sometimes.
It's interesting how it wasn't until 9/11 that most of the rest of the country felt obliged to speak for NY when it either wasn't much on their radar before (aside from the abstractions of Wall Street) or it was outright reviled.

On the matter of talking points, this is a useful summary of probably at least 80% of what gets discussed in this thread in a given recent week. (Surveillance aside, I'm sure it went to press before recent developments and even if it hadn't they would mostly be subsumed into the economic analysis.)

Nothing really new here, but it's worth noting--venue of publication aside-- that a good handful of the usual polar stereotypes and partisan insults at the level of consequence for the populace are reversed in this article if not mostly neutralized and distributed asymmetrically, if not nearly evenly between parties.

http://newleftreview.org/II/81/perry-anderson-homeland
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
I think we can disagree on the details of what to do with those still at Gitmo, but Holder wanting to try KSM in NY City was disgraceful. And with that POS, it was just the tip of the iceberg.

It's interesting when an author of the Patriot Act is real uncomfortable with the latest NSA news. Maybe it's just politics, or maybe Obama has taken that ball and has run with it.

Interestingly, you don't draw much distinction between enemy combatants and American citizens, or is my perception wrong?
gooner said:
So Al-Awlaki wasn't a combatant then?

American or not, he deserved to wiped off the face of the earth for the **** he preached on the internet.
So he was a soldier? You really want to convey that designation to criminals who run criminal operations, and who plan (or order to) kill people.

If these guys are indeed soldiers, in your estimation, then under the laws of war, they are legally allowed to blow up american soldiers. In that case, wasn't the Fort Hood shooter just doing his job then, as a combatant/soldier?

On top of that, with signature drone strikes, bombs are dropped on people who display activities that might be considered "terrorist." I kid you not but they include "gathering in and around huts in tribal areas."

Since the US seems to be eager to stretch the meaning of what is and isn't permissible under the laws of war, it has open enormous caveats for those people it wants to fight. The US has expanded the definition of being a combatant to include those "aiding and abetting" terrorist organizations, to include money men, couriers, gun runners and arms dealers, people who preach #%$^& on the internet and other publishers, almost down to "young men with guns in tribal areas."

The knife cuts both ways. Laws apply equally, so these new interpretations also apply automatically to the opposing party. In that case, terrorists (or "soldiers" in a war, "enemy combatants") are allowed to blow up those "aiding and abetting the US regime." In other words, like the US, they are now allowed to blow up training facilities, money men and financiers, publishers of "inflammatory material" (they will determine what is and isn't inflammatory) and contractors and industries supporting the war on terror.

I also can't wait until Russia launches a drone strike on a Chechen Enemy Combatant in Boston. You probably also agreed with McCain and Graham who want to designate the Boston Marathon bomber an enemy combatant (even though it's totally ludicrous).

Next up, in the war on drugs, drug kingpins, couriers, smugglers, and arms dealers, and basically anyone who aids and abets drug cartels are combatants! Just lock them up indefinitely without a trial, or just drone bomb them in the Mexican or Colombian mansions.

Scott SoCal said:
Fine. Try them in court. I really don't have a problem with that. Interesting tho, those still at Gitmo literally have no homes. Their home countries won't take them back. What do they know that we don't?

KSM in NY city was a bit over the top, imho. As insensitive as it gets.
First of all, they are "alleged" enemy combatants. Remember how it works? Pre trial Detention (or in this case indefinite pre-trial detention) -> courts, -> the law -> evidence works. It's funny how you trust big government to decide who needs to be there and who doesn't.

Remember the dozen or so of Uyghurs, who were detained for at least 7 years or something, because they were caught on the battlefield. Let me clarify that, they were lured by ****stanis who were promised monetary rewards if they could find and hand over "terrorists" to the US. As Chinese refugees in Afghanistan, they fled to ****stan, were detained by some people eager to make some money, and then ended up in GTMO. Sorry, no rights for you. China wants them back though, meaning they'll end up on the electric chair, or whatever device they have their.

ATM there are like 85 people cleared for release. However, they need to be relocated. Some people can't be repatriated, not because they won't take them back, but because they might face torture, disappearance, of death when they are returned. If you did mistakenly end up in GTMO, after a decade in prison without a trial on whether or not you actually were a combatant, you think you would be able to shake that stigma? Ask some of theBritish guys who had been detained and subsequently released...

Let me also turn that argument around. If their home country doesn't want to take them, because the US has labeled them as terrorists for a decade, but now the US has come to the conclusion that they are not terrorists and dangerous, why doesn't the US take them? I mean, they have been held by the US, without trial for a decade. Some accommodation or compensation for their wrongful detention would be nice.

With respect to the trial in NY, it's only what all other countries with terrorist attacks have done. Let me see, UK London, Spain Madrid, India Mumbai...

Surely if those socialist, health care loving, commie-treehugging softies across the pond can hold speedy, fair trials in major cities where the attacks happened, the land of the free and the (maybe not so) brave, must be able to that as well?
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Background:

NSA's Prism surveillance program: how it works and what it can do

Updates:

Boundless Informant: the NSA's secret tool to track global surveillance data

The Guardian has acquired top-secret documents about the NSA datamining tool, called Boundless Informant, that details and even maps by country the voluminous amount of information it collects from computer and telephone networks.

The focus of the internal NSA tool is on counting and categorizing the records of communications, known as metadata, rather than the content of an email or instant message.
An NSA factsheet about the program, acquired by the Guardian, says: "The tool allows users to select a country on a map and view the metadata volume and select details about the collections against that country."
Other documents seen by the Guardian further demonstrate that the NSA does in fact break down its surveillance intercepts which could allow the agency to determine how many of them are from the US. The level of detail includes individual IP addresses.
How the U.S. Uses Technology to Mine More Data More Quickly

With little public debate, the N.S.A. has been undergoing rapid expansion in order to exploit the mountains of new data being created each day. The government has poured billions of dollars into the agency over the last decade, building a one-million-square-foot fortress in the mountains of Utah, apparently to store huge volumes of personal data indefinitely. It created intercept stations across the country, according to former industry and intelligence officials, and helped build one of the world’s fastest computers to crack the codes that protect information.
“American laws and American policy view the content of communications as the most private and the most valuable, but that is backwards today,” said Marc Rotenberg, the executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a Washington group. “The information associated with communications today is often more significant than the communications itself, and the people who do the data mining know that.”
When separate streams of data are integrated into large databases — matching, for example, time and location data from cellphones with credit card purchases or E-ZPass use — intelligence analysts are given a mosaic of a person’s life that would never be available from simply listening to their conversations. Just four data points about the location and time of a mobile phone call, a study published in Nature found, make it possible to identify the caller 95 percent of the time
This has happened, and is happening, in the private sector as well, but no one cares. No one passes bills to limit what companies are allowed to do with all the information they collect, and how long they can store it. And it is now happening during elections as well. Aggregate lots of data to identify customers and voters, and target them specifically with tailored messages for the greatest effect.

But then again, privacy has always been a bit of an oddball constitutional guarantee in the US. Let's hope this "revelation" shakes things up a bit.

“More and more services like Google and Facebook have become huge central repositories for information,” observed Dan Auerbach, a technology analyst with the Electronic Frontier Foundation. “That’s created a pile of data that is an incredibly attractive target for law enforcement and intelligence agencies.”
I.B.M.’s Watson, the supercomputing technology that defeated human Jeopardy! champions in 2011, is a prime example of the power of data-intensive artificial intelligence.
Industry experts say that intelligence and law enforcement agencies also use a new technology, known as trilaterization, that allows tracking of an individual’s location, moment to moment. The data, obtained from cellphone towers, can track the altitude of a person, down to the specific floor in a building. There is even software that exploits the cellphone data seeking to predict a person’s most likely route. “It is extreme Big Brother,” said Alex Fielding, an expert in networking and data centers.
Like clockwork:

Nothing revealed in recent days suggests that N.S.A. eavesdroppers have violated the law by targeting ordinary Americans. On Friday, President Obama defended the agency’s collection of phone records and other metadata, saying it did not involve listening to conversations or reading the content of e-mails. “Some of the hype we’ve been hearing over the past day or so — nobody has listened to the content of people’s phone calls,” he said.
The metadata is the new meta.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
Insensitive to try him in the place he committed his crime? Nice talking point, but I would suggest that is EXACTLY the place to try him. You guys are great on propaganda (its how you shoved the "Patriot" Act down our throats), but short on critical thinking sometimes.
Okay. Practically, how does this work?

Jury of his peers? Venue? "Fair" trial?

Can you even imagine the chaos in NY city? Security issues?

Yeah, for Holder and this DOJ, I can't even imagine what a total cluster F this would be.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Okay. Practically, how does this work?

Jury of his peers? Venue? "Fair" trial?

Can you even imagine the chaos in NY city? Security issues?

Yeah, for Holder and this DOJ, I can't even imagine what a total cluster F this would be.
It can't be any more complicated or costly then on GTMO.

At least $500 million has been spent since 9/11 on renovating Guantanamo Bay

The cost of the marquee, along with a smaller sign positioned near the airfield: $188,000. Among other odd legacies from war-on-terror spending since 2001 for the troops at Guantanamo Bay: an abandoned volleyball court for $249,000, an unused go-kart track for $296,000 and $3.5 million for 27 playgrounds that are often vacant.

The spending is part of at least $500 million that has transformed what was once a sun-beaten and forgotten Caribbean base into one of the most secure military and prison installations in the world. That does not include construction bonuses, which typically run into the millions.
Also not included are annual operating costs of $150 million -- double the amount for a comparable U.S. prison

Add in clandestine black-budget items, such as the top-secret Camp 7 prison for high-value detainees, aptly nicknamed Camp Platinum, and the post-Sept. 11, 2001, bill for the 45-square-mile base easily soars toward $2 billion.
But as spending accelerated over the years, and more and more construction and renovation contracts were awarded, the number of detainees steadily declined, from a peak of 680 in May 2003 to 181 now.
The Pentagon spent $18.2 million on a prison hospital and $2.9 million on a psychiatric ward next door
oh and the soldiers also need to be taken care of:

The Navy Morale, Welfare and Recreation Department has spent $7.3 million on the baseball and football fields, $164,000 for a skate park, $97,000 on a roller-hockey rink and $60,000 for a batting cage. Soon to come: a soccer cage for $20,000.
Burns and Roe and the **** Corp., now called Dck Worldwide, joined forces to form BRDC, which built the welcome signs, the volleyball court, the go-kart track, the KFC/Taco Bell restaurant, the Starbucks cafe, many of the playgrounds and other projects. Together, the three contractors were paid $125 million
There are 398 children younger than 18 at Guantanamo Bay. During a recent visit to the base, few of them seemed interested in the playgrounds. Still, $1.6 million has been awarded for more playgrounds, bringing total spending to $5.1 million
For two billion you could probably hold a speedy trial in NY. However, perhaps torture has contaminated the evidence... whoops!

Well we'll just keep on paying 150 million per year to keep them in pre-trial detention.

Also:

It turns out that KSM had made a number of incriminating statements to his fellow Guantanamo detainees – but also had been secretly tape-recorded by military personnel. Military prosecutors were reluctant to use the tapes in commission proceedings against KSM. But federal prosecutors were enthusiastic about what looked to be quite admissible evidence
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2012/06/klaidman-on-ksms-incriminating-statements-and-the-911-trial/

So the kangaroo courts are sitting on potentially uncontaminated, but highly incriminating evidence they don't want to use?
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Bala Verde said:
It can't be any more complicated or costly then on GTMO.

At least $500 million has been spent since 9/11 on renovating Guantanamo Bay









oh and the soldiers also need to be taken care of:







For two billion you could probably hold a speedy trial in NY. However, perhaps torture has contaminated the evidence... whoops!

Well we'll just keep on paying 150 million per year to keep them in pre-trial detention.

Also:



http://www.lawfareblog.com/2012/06/klaidman-on-ksms-incriminating-statements-and-the-911-trial/

So the kangaroo courts are sitting on potentially uncontaminated, but highly incriminating evidence they don't want to use?

It can't be any more complicated or costly then on GTMO.
It can. Nice way to dodge the questions tho.

For two billion you could probably hold a speedy trial in NY
Oh, so this is about money?:rolleyes:

So the kangaroo courts are sitting on potentially uncontaminated, but highly incriminating evidence they don't want to use?
Conspiracy theory, eh? Maybe just let those guys go. In your neighborhood. Should be ok then.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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So Obama's response to the destruction of the Fourth Amendment is to launch a criminal probe into the whistle-blower who leaked what he was doing to the citizenry he was spying on.

On one hand it is not big deal; calm down. On the other hand, it is such a big deal that he needs to prosecute the person who told the people about it. That is change we can believe in.

Check out this fascist in charge of U.S. Intellegence:

“I think we all feel profoundly offended by that,” Mr. Clapper said, speaking of the leaker. “This is someone who, for whatever reason, has chosen to violate a sacred trust for this country. And so I hope we’re able to track down whoever’s doing this, because it is extremely damaging to, and it affects the safety and security of this country.”

How about his sacred trust to abide by the Constitution? How dare the people find out he has been spying on them,
 
May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
Okay. Practically, how does this work?

Jury of his peers? Venue? "Fair" trial?

Can you even imagine the chaos in NY city? Security issues?

Yeah, for Holder and this DOJ, I can't even imagine what a total cluster F this would be.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling...none of the things you present are insurmountable.

This was a created controversy so Republicans could jump around and make monkey noises.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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BroDeal said:
So Obama's response to the destruction of the Fourth Amendment is to launch a criminal probe into the whistle-blower who leaked what he was doing to the citizenry he was spying on.

On one hand it is not big deal; calm down. On the other hand, it is such a big deal that he needs to prosecute the person who told the people about it. That is change we can believe in.

Check out this fascist in charge of U.S. Intellegence:

“I think we all feel profoundly offended by that,” Mr. Clapper said, speaking of the leaker. “This is someone who, for whatever reason, has chosen to violate a sacred trust for this country. And so I hope we’re able to track down whoever’s doing this, because it is extremely damaging to, and it affects the safety and security of this country.”

How about his sacred trust to abide by the Constitution? How dare the people find out he has been spying on them,
Well, the whistleblower has come forward and done an interview with the Guardian.

The individual responsible for one of the most significant leaks in US political history is Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old former technical assistant for the CIA and current employee of the defence contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. Snowden has been working at the National Security Agency for the last four years as an employee of various outside contractors, including Booz Allen and Dell.

The Guardian, after several days of interviews, is revealing his identity at his request. From the moment he decided to disclose numerous top-secret documents to the public, he was determined not to opt for the protection of anonymity. "I have no intention of hiding who I am because I know I have done nothing wrong," he said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
The sky is falling, the sky is falling, the sky is falling...none of the things you present are insurmountable.

This was a created controversy so Republicans could jump around and make monkey noises.

Oh good. It's easy then.

Should be no problem to answer the questions, right?
 
May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
Oh good. It's easy then.

Should be no problem to answer the questions, right?
No, I'm not paid to answer those questions, but what you seem to miss is that the DOJ and other agencies of government are staffed by almost all the same people who were there under the previous administration/s, and there are plenty of people to work those things out. Not sure you actually understand the job of Attorney General. No AG handles every decision made in the DOJ...

That hysteria was just one of the many created by the right. Now that you have a real issue, your monkeys stopped howling and fell in line because they know their is plenty of sh!t on their hands too...

Actually, let me give a shot to your questions to show you how to critically think...

This is an exceptional situation and KSM is not a US citizen and is in fact an enemy combatant...so he doesn't get a jury, he gets tried by a federal judge.

Venue

NY has handled plenty of "chaos." They'd be fine here.

Security issues: You put together a security plan, and thanks to the "Patriot" Act that your side shoved down everyone's throats, you use the considerable powers to gather data and listen to phone calls, and you implement your security plan.

The reality is that him being there is no more dangerous than him being anywhere. If Islamists want to retaliate for us having him (because we are still holding him anyway...like we would if he were sentenced) they could have done so, and could still do so...where he is really has little bearing on that.

EDIT: Lets just call it a working plan because I'm pretty sure that the people who are paid to make those decisions would do a better job than me. My point is that you think there aren't answers to your questions...your a little too proud of your questions from where I sit.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
No, I'm not paid to answer those questions, but what you seem to miss is that the DOJ and other agencies of government are staffed by almost all the same people who were there under the previous administration/s, and there are plenty of people to work those things out. Not sure you actually understand the job of Attorney General. No AG handles every decision made in the DOJ...

That hysteria was just one of the many created by the right. Now that you have a real issue, your monkeys stopped howling and fell in line because they know their is plenty of sh!t on their hands too...

Actually, let me give a shot to your questions to show you how to critically think...

This is an exceptional situation and KSM is not a US citizen and is in fact an enemy combatant...so he doesn't get a jury, he gets tried by a federal judge.

Venue

NY has handled plenty of "chaos." They'd be fine here.

Security issues: You put together a security plan, and thanks to the "Patriot" Act that your side shoved down everyone's throats, you use the considerable powers to gather data and listen to phone calls, and you implement your security plan.

The reality is that him being there is no more dangerous than him being anywhere. If Islamists want to retaliate for us having him (because we are still holding him anyway...like we would if he were sentenced) they could have done so, and could still do so...where he is really has little bearing on that.

EDIT: Lets just call it a working plan because I'm pretty sure that the people who are paid to make those decisions would do a better job than me. My point is that you think there aren't answers to your questions...your a little too proud of your questions from where I sit.
Not at all. There are answers to my questions but, apparently, none of them beat keeping those guys at Gitmo.

Those questions (and many others) pose real problems as, apparently, BO has discovered.

I'm quite sure he really would like to close Gitmo. And I'm quite sure that the lack of even marginal answers to these questions is why Gitmo is still operational.
 

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