U.S. Politics

Page 420 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Nov 8, 2012
11,640
0
0
aphronesis said:
Yep, which you compared to the national figures. And then closed with "but jobs aren't important anymore."
I suppose I could have compared those statistics to Bern, Switzerland, but then that would not have made much sense.

Since you're intent on having the last word on the matter I will go ahead and let you have it.
 
Scott SoCal said:
I suppose I could have compared those statistics to Bern, Switzerland, but then that would not have made much sense.

Since you're intent on having the last word on the matter I will go ahead and let you have it.
Thanks. I figured it was thread attrition keeping you going this weekend. As to the rest, depends on your point: you don't seem willing to commit to one here.
 
Mar 18, 2009
13,318
0
0
Wow. A Florida jury surprised me by doing the right thing. Who would've thought?

This had to be the most incompetent prosecution team since the OJ trial. The big difference being that the OJ team had a rock solid case and the Zimmerman team had bupkis.
 
Apr 20, 2009
1,172
0
0
BroDeal said:
Wow. A Florida jury surprised me by doing the right thing. Who would've thought?
^ this implies a contradiction of this ⌵
This had to be the most incompetent prosecution team since the OJ trial. The big difference being that the OJ team had a rock solid case and the Zimmerman team had bupkis.

if the prosecution team was incompetent, how is the jury's verdict correct? i didn't really follow the prosecution too closely, but what do you base your statement on that they were incompetent?

also, could you explain why you think the verdict is the right thing, especially in light of your opinion of the prosecution?

a good read is ta-nehisi coate's enumerated thoughts in agreement with the verdict.

i assume the jury did the right thing given florida law, but it seems pretty messed up that someone can shoot and kill someone in a fight, whoever started it, and not be guilty of something.

some people are saying that it is going to be open season on black people now. if i were black i would certainly fee that way. however, given the publicity, expense and difficulty of the legal proceedings, which are not done yet, this may have the opposite effect of making someone think twice about using a gun in florida.
 
Mar 18, 2009
13,318
0
0
gregod said:
if the prosecution team was incompetent, how is the jury's verdict correct? i didn't really follow the prosecution too closely, but what do you base your statement on that they were incompetent?
They overcharged. They had no evidence whatsoever that supported murder 2 as defined in Florida. Half their witnesses supported the defense's story. Didn't the prosecution prep its own witnesses? In an act of gross malfeasance, they hid evidence from the defense. The prosecution's case was built on emotion rather than facts. The prosecution's case went so badly they tried to amend the charges after the case had been presented, including a completly bogus charge of child abuse. The judge did not allow the child abuse charge but caved on the manslaughter charge, which was unfair to the defense. The prosecution did everything it could to railroad Zimmerman. It is a miracle the guy escaped with his life.

I'll change my description from incompetence to incompetent misconduct.

gregod said:
also, could you explain why you think the verdict is the right thing, especially in light of your opinion of the prosecution?
This was a case that should never have been brought. The police did not think there was enough evidence to charge. The prosecution was afraid of what a grand jury might say. It was political from the beginning. Holder's DOJ actually spent taxpayer money organizing protests against Zimmerman. The government's conduct was disgraceful. The media was even worse. Laughably, the media coined a new term, white hispanic, because the actual race of the defendent did not fit with their race hustling.

There was little evidence, and the evidence there was supported Zimmerman's story.

gregod said:
i assume the jury did the right thing given florida law, but it seems pretty messed up that someone can shoot and kill someone in a fight, whoever started it, and not be guilty of something.
If you are a young racist who likes to call whites "crackers" then it might be a wise decision not to get in fights with them. Those crackers might be packing.
 
Nov 8, 2012
11,640
0
0
BroDeal said:
They overcharged. They had no evidence whatsoever that supported murder 2 as defined in Florida. Half their witnesses supported the defense's story. Didn't the prosecution prep its own witnesses? In an act of gross malfeasance, they hid evidence from the defense. The prosecution's case was built on emotion rather than facts. The prosecution's case went so badly they tried to amend the charges after the case had been presented, including a completly bogus charge of child abuse. The judge did not allow the child abuse charge but caved on the manslaughter charge, which was unfair to the defense. The prosecution did everything it could to railroad Zimmerman. It is a miracle the guy escaped with his life.

I'll change my description from incompetence to incompetent misconduct.



This was a case that should never have been brought. The police did not think there was enough evidence to charge. The prosecution was afraid of what a grand jury might say. It was political from the beginning. Holder's DOJ actually spent taxpayer money organizing protests against Zimmerman. The government's conduct was disgraceful. The media was even worse. Laughably, the media coined a new term, white hispanic, because the actual race of the defendent did not fit with their race hustling.

There was little evidence, and the evidence there was supported Zimmerman's story.



If you are a young racist who likes to call whites "crackers" then it might be a wise decision not to get in fights with them. Those crackers might be packing.
Meanwhile black on black killing goes on essentially unabated in almost every major city in the US and the media as well as the race hustlers say little to nothing. It must not sell well.

I'm only left to assume that it's far more palatable and far less lucrative for black teens to kill each other.
 
Apr 20, 2009
1,172
0
0
BroDeal said:
They overcharged. They had no evidence whatsoever that supported murder 2 as defined in Florida. Half their witnesses supported the defense's story. Didn't the prosecution prep its own witnesses? In an act of gross malfeasance, they hid evidence from the defense. The prosecution's case was built on emotion rather than facts. The prosecution's case went so badly they tried to amend the charges after the case had been presented, including a completly bogus charge of child abuse. The judge did not allow the child abuse charge but caved on the manslaughter charge, which was unfair to the defense. The prosecution did everything it could to railroad Zimmerman. It is a miracle the guy escaped with his life.

I'll change my description from incompetence to incompetent misconduct.
i see. thanks.

This was a case that should never have been brought. The police did not think there was enough evidence to charge. The prosecution was afraid of what a grand jury might say. It was political from the beginning. Holder's DOJ actually spent taxpayer money organizing protests against Zimmerman. The government's conduct was disgraceful. The media was even worse. Laughably, the media coined a new term, white hispanic, because the actual race of the defendent did not fit with their race hustling.

There was little evidence, and the evidence there was supported Zimmerman's story.
i disagree that the case shouldn't have been brought. there was a fight and one person ended up dead.

do you have a link for the bolded statement? if true, isn't this illegal?

no doubt the media coverage of this was inflammatory, but race was an important factor in this mess, wasn't it?

by the way, white hispanic is not a media coined term. it has been a census classification for a long time. that said, what little i know about this case, the issue of zimmerman's race has been absurd.

If you are a young racist who likes to call whites "crackers" then it might be a wise decision not to get in fights with them. Those crackers might be packing.
i'm really shocked by this statement on several levels.

first, again excuse my ignorance of the case, did trayvon martin actually call anyone a cracker or is this just what the defense asserted?

second, even if martin had called george zimmerman a cracker, they are not equally racist terms. all racism is bad, but not all racism is the same. this should be obvious.

finally, being racist, calling someone a name and fighting should not be a death penalty offense.
 
Mar 18, 2009
13,318
0
0
gregod said:
do you have a link for the bolded statement? if true, isn't this illegal?
Google it. The exact amount of money, down to the penny, that was spent by the DOJ has been reported. It is outrageous.

gregod said:
no doubt the media coverage of this was inflammatory, but race was an important factor in this mess, wasn't it?
It wasn't until the professional racists like Al Sharpton got involved. The Democrats never let the opportunity to play the race card pass them by,

Two minorites get in a fight and one gets shot but because the other has lighter skin, he gets deemed a "white hispanic." It's race politics at its lowest.

gregod said:
first, again excuse my ignorance of the case, did trayvon martin actually call anyone a cracker or is this just what the defense asserted?
Nope. That is what the prosecution's own witness, Martin's girlfriend, testfied to. The exact term was "creepy ass cracker."

gregod said:
second, even if martin had called george zimmerman a cracker, they are not equally racist terms. all racism is bad, but not all racism is the same. this should be obvious.
If Zimmerman had called Martin a n!gger then he would have been lynched, and not just the media lynching and attempted trial lynching he was subjected to. I find it hilarious that the race hustlers portrayed Martin as a victim of racism yet the only racist involved in the incident appears to be Martin himself.
 
Apr 20, 2009
1,172
0
0
Scott SoCal said:
Meanwhile black on black killing goes on essentially unabated in almost every major city in the US and the media as well as the race hustlers say little to nothing. It must not sell well.

I'm only left to assume that it's far more palatable and far less lucrative for black teens to kill each other.
there were two reasons why this case was notable: one was the races of the victim and defendant and the other was florida's law.

but i'm unclear about the point you are trying to make. furthermore, the hyperbolic nature of your statement undercuts whatever statement you are trying to make. are you saying the police are doing nothing to stop black on black crime? what about the numerous community organizations that are dedicated to this very purpose? just because poverty is a greater force than all their good intentions, it does not mean there are not many people working hard to decrease violence.

by the way, what is a "race hustler"? i assume by this invidious term you mean it as the people who loudly campaign against the racial disparities that they see. what is wrong with that?
 
Apr 20, 2009
1,172
0
0
BroDeal said:
Google it. The exact amount of money, down to the penny, that was spent by the DOJ has been reported. It is outrageous.
i did and i agree it is outrageous. however, it is nothing new. law enforcement agencies frequently use undercover "peacekeepers" to foment violence amid protests in order to entrap others who might be disposed to violent acts. they have done this to occupy protesters, g20 summit protesters and numerous others.

It wasn't until the professional racists like Al Sharpton got involved. The Democrats never let the opportunity to play the race card pass them by,

Two minorites get in a fight and one gets shot but because the other has lighter skin, he gets deemed a "white hispanic." It's race politics at its lowest.
i don't recall al sharpton's involvement in the limited coverage i read of this, but to call him and others who thought race a factor "professional racists" is invidious and unfair. zimmerman's race is not and should not be an issue. on the other hand, a young black man was doing nothing illegal and was being followed by someone he perceived to be white. an experience that black people have everyday. he thought he should confront this. a fight ensued. he ended up dead. this is what they see and why they are upset.

unfortunately, all of this obscures the larger issue of florida's law.

Nope. That is what the prosecution's own witness, Martin's girlfriend, testfied to. The exact term was "creepy ass cracker."

If Zimmerman had called Martin a n!gger then he would have been lynched, and not just the media lynching and attempted trial lynching he was subjected to. I find it hilarious that the race hustlers portrayed Martin as a victim of racism yet the only racist involved in the incident appears to be Martin himself.
you don't mean literally lynched, do you? paula deen and numerous other celebrities and police who've been caught using the n-word still walk among us.

i doubt zimmerman is intentionally racist, but can't you see how people could see that his suspicion of a young black man simply walking back from the store can be seen as racist?

for what it's worth, an anecdote: a few years ago i went with a friend to a drugstore near the university of california san francisco to pick up a prescription. i went in while he parked the car. it was afternoon, so not too busy. as i walked over to the counter, i noticed two white high school age girls were shoplifting make-up. at the counter waiting for the pharmacist, i debated in my head whether or not to tell on the girls when i overheard the pharmacist tell the cashier to "go help" a 30ish black man wearing a suit who had just walked in; my friend. he walked straight up to where i was waiting and this young cashier followed then just stood by us looking sheepish. i got my prescription, paid and we left. i forgot about the shoplifting.

i didn't have the courage to discuss it with my friend nor confront the pharmacist and i will forever regret it.
 
Jul 4, 2009
9,573
0
0
BroDeal said:
Google it. The exact amount of money, down to the penny, that was spent by the DOJ has been reported. It is outrageous.



It wasn't until the professional racists like Al Sharpton got involved. The Democrats never let the opportunity to play the race card pass them by,

Two minorites get in a fight and one gets shot but because the other has lighter skin, he gets deemed a "white hispanic." It's race politics at its lowest.



Nope. That is what the prosecution's own witness, Martin's girlfriend, testfied to. The exact term was "creepy ass cracker."



If Zimmerman had called Martin a n!gger then he would have been lynched, and not just the media lynching and attempted trial lynching he was subjected to. I find it hilarious that the race hustlers portrayed Martin as a victim of racism yet the only racist involved in the incident appears to be Martin himself.
.....well played, brilliant in fact .....you've totally convinced me.....


....but it would be nice if you provided the figure that represents "The exact amount of money"....and "down to the penny" of course....and maybe throw in some links to show where those numbers, down to the last penny of course, come from....


....you see, I would love to spread the Gospel according to BroDeal far and wide...but truth be known blutto has a credibility problem ( yeah hard to believe but true )....so if I had those numbers to buttress your Gospel Truth I would be most awesomely convincing....otherwise some silly wiseacre would say something like ,..."you just pulled that $hyte out your a$$, blutto, pi$$ off with your B$"....


....and one last question before I go back to my cave....does your new position as SoCal's partner-in-crime pay well?....and do you think I could join your team?...frankly I need the money and will do just about anything no matter how dirty and underhanded.....we could be like The Three Musketeers, and get together and sing sea shanties and so on and so forth and do stuff like smite silly socialistical librrrlll types.....we'd be kinda like internet superheroes....do you think we should get some cool costumes?....


Cheers
 
Nov 8, 2012
11,640
0
0
gregod said:
there were two reasons why this case was notable: one was the races of the victim and defendant and the other was florida's law.

but i'm unclear about the point you are trying to make. furthermore, the hyperbolic nature of your statement undercuts whatever statement you are trying to make. are you saying the police are doing nothing to stop black on black crime? what about the numerous community organizations that are dedicated to this very purpose? just because poverty is a greater force than all their good intentions, it does not mean there are not many people working hard to decrease violence.

by the way, what is a "race hustler"? i assume by this invidious term you mean it as the people who loudly campaign against the racial disparities that they see. what is wrong with that?
are you saying the police are doing nothing to stop black on black crime?
No. The policing going on in many of the cities is cutting edge and very much outside the box. I re-read my post and can't figure out how you came to this possible conclusion.

by the way, what is a "race hustler"?
Easily identified. Walter Williams wrote a piece last year. It's relevant.

http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2012/04/11/media_dishonesty_and_race_hustlers/page/full
 
Jun 22, 2009
4,924
0
0
Been away at a weekend music festival....good to see that BD has finally shown his true colors here and lost all credibility for ever. Shooting an unarmed kid in Fla. is clearly ok now if you're not black, while a black woman who discharges a gun without injuring anyone gets 20 years.....only right wing bigots, gun nuts, libertarian mountain dwellers or others without any grip on reality can 'welcome' this utterly outrageous verdict, a veritable travesty of justice if ever there was one.

Shocking, disgraceful, but sadly not entirely surprising for the totally ****ed up state of Merika today, or for those who see fit to welcome this judicial outrage.
 
Nov 8, 2012
11,640
0
0
blutto said:
.....well played, brilliant in fact .....you've totally convinced me.....


....but it would be nice if you provided the figure that represents "The exact amount of money"....and "down to the penny" of course....and maybe throw in some links to show where those numbers, down to the last penny of course, come from....


....you see, I would love to spread the Gospel according to BroDeal far and wide...but truth be known blutto has a credibility problem ( yeah hard to believe but true )....so if I had those numbers to buttress your Gospel Truth I would be most awesomely convincing....otherwise some silly wiseacre would say something like ,..."you just pulled that $hyte out your a$$, blutto, pi$$ off with your B$"....


....and one last question before I go back to my cave....does your new position as SoCal's partner-in-crime pay well?....and do you think I could join your team?...frankly I need the money and will do just about anything no matter how dirty and underhanded.....we could be like The Three Musketeers, and get together and sing sea shanties and so on and so forth and do stuff like smite silly socialistical librrrlll types.....we'd be kinda like internet superheroes....do you think we should get some cool costumes?....


Cheers
You can't join my team. I'm a lone voice in the wilderness that you just can't seem to shut up.

Dang.
 
Scott SoCal said:
No. The policing going on in many of the cities is cutting edge and very much outside the box. I re-read my post and can't figure out how you came to this possible conclusion.



Easily identified. Walter Williams wrote a piece last year. It's relevant.

http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2012/04/11/media_dishonesty_and_race_hustlers/page/full
Folks writing in that paper don't balk at the hyperbole. I see where you get it from. I wonder what the fear is of trying to convey points and arguments in basically sober tones.
 
Apr 20, 2009
1,172
0
0
Scott SoCal said:
No. The policing going on in many of the cities is cutting edge and very much outside the box. I re-read my post and can't figure out how you came to this possible conclusion.

...
Meanwhile black on black killing goes on essentially unabated in almost every major city in the US...
this is why i asked that question. if the killing is unabated, it follows that the police are having no effect. it is my understanding the the long term trend is that the murder rate in most cities has been declining since the 90s. the police and community organizers are among the reasons for this.
 
Nov 8, 2012
11,640
0
0
aphronesis said:
Folks writing in that paper don't balk at the hyperbole. I see where you get it from. I wonder what the fear is of trying to convey points and arguments in basically sober tones.
No fear. That article was written by a black man telling it as he sees it. A black man who is not a liberal. Can you even imagine the turmoil he's had to put up with in his life being a black male conservative?
 
Scott SoCal said:
No fear. That article was written by a black man telling it as he sees it. A black man who is not a liberal. Can you even imagine the turmoil he's had to put up with in his life being a black male conservative?
I read the bio. Depends on what issues he's conservative on.

Either way, does that suffering, woe and ethnic proximity make what he says somehow more accurate or more believable?

I don't think so; the last sentence alone seems well off the mark--a little overdetermined let's by his own long suffering position.
 
Nov 8, 2012
11,640
0
0
Amsterhammer said:
A thought for the apologists.
Yeah, he should have been convicted without a trial. We trust the system so little now that we should have taken a real good look at the optics and just put Zimmerman away forever.
 
Nov 8, 2012
11,640
0
0
gregod said:
this is why i asked that question. if the killing is unabated, it follows that the police are having no effect. it is my understanding the the long term trend is that the murder rate in most cities has been declining since the 90s. the police and community organizers are among the reasons for this.
The rates are going down... but if you look at black on black, it's alarming.

My point was, after the shooting, this entire disgraceful debacle was a media creation stoked by media whores across the spectrum. That we now have extreme emotional reactions should be of no surprise whatsoever.

That and the stunning hypocrisy is impossible to ignore.
 
Jul 4, 2009
9,573
0
0
Scott SoCal said:
Yeah, he should have been convicted without a trial. We trust the system so little now that we should have taken a real good look at the optics and just put Zimmerman away forever.
....yeah that would have fit in just nicely into a long standing judicial tradition in them thar Sothern states...real surprised the court didn't draw into their strong suit....yup real surprising that...

Cheers
 
Apr 20, 2009
1,172
0
0
blutto said:
...
....but it would be nice if you provided the figure that represents "The exact amount of money"....and "down to the penny" of course....and maybe throw in some links to show where those numbers, down to the last penny of course, come from...
i posted a link in my reply to brodeal. hereit is for you. it in fact does show down to the penny. however, even though the DOJ's spending is nefarious, brodeal's characterization of the spending is misleading. it was not as implied for partisan political gain. the money was spent infiltrating protesters in order to entrap those who may be predisposed to violence. not unlike what law enforcement has done to anti-war demonstrators and occupy protesters. also included in the accounting was money spent for a "CRS employee [spent $672.24] to travel to Tampa, Florida from April 18-20, 2012 'to meet with RNC official related to possible protests and demonstrations during the RNC'”.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS