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RetroActive said:
I thought you were pointing out how long it took for chemical weapons to be banned, started in '68 and ratified '97.

I suggest you read the article again, DU is not banned yet but look at the list of possible violations it may represent. Chemical weapons is among them, look at the chemical toxicity.

btw, the UN just reported today that they found no evidence of chemical weapons use in Syria.
That is not what was said.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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del1962 said:
That is not what was said.
I added a yet.

I had posted this article earlier:
Syria conflict: Both sides 'committing war crimes'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24045680

The investigators say allegations were received regarding the use of chemical weapons, but that on the evidence currently available they were unable to identify the agents used or the perpetrators.


Do you have some better info.?
 
Jan 27, 2013
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del1962 said:
That is not what was said.
OK, just found this:
UN Looking Into Chemical Weapons Allegations In Syria
http://www.rferl.org/content/un-chemical-syria/25102617.html
In its latest report, released on September 11, a UN commission investigating human rights abuses in Syria added that it was not possible yet to "reach a finding about the chemical agents used, their delivery systems, or the perpetrators."

further...

The period covered in the report does not include an alleged chemical-weapons attack by government forces on August 21. A separate, much-anticipated report on that incident is being prepared by UN chemical-weapons experts.

Anyway you slice it this whole thing is sick all the way around.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
President Obama's pitch: Someone should do something

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/obama-syria-speech-analysis-96600.html?hp=f2


Leadership we can all get behind, I suppose.

Fournier:

Naive about the levers of power:

Where to start? Obama reversed course on congressional authorization at the last minute, after a private chat with his chief of staff, and to the surprise of his national security team--all in violation of presidential best practices. He then left the country on a quixotic trip to Russia, allowing misgivings to grow in Congress and the public before he could build a case for striking Syria. Boxed in, Obama seized upon a Russian proposal to put Syria's weapons in the hands of the international community. It's an impractical solution, a fig leaf. Either Obama trusts Russian President Vladimir Putin (a mistake) or he is a partner in deceit (an outrage). A Democratic strategist who works closely with the White House, and who requested anonymity to avoid political retribution, told me, "This has been one of the most humiliating episodes in presidential history."
http://www.nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/syria-tells-you-everything-you-need-to-know-about-barack-obama-20130910?mrefid=site_search
 
May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
That strategist is a moron.

I was thinking about this on the way home, and particularly your suggestion (and every other Republican's suggestion) that Obama has weakened our standing in the international community. It seems funny that you or anyone who supported the Bush administration for 8 years would have anything to say about our standing in the international community because for 8 years, nobody had respect for us. George W. Bush destroyed our standing like no other president in our lifetime. So, like the slowly growing economy that we'd all like to see growing faster, we'd all like to see our standing in the international community growing faster and stronger than it is. But reality (the bane of a conservative's existence) again presents us with the abject fact that wherever we are right now, we are head and shoulders above where we were with that idiot cowboy and his merry band of chicken hawks in the White House.

Obama has proven one thing, the idiocy of "I said it so I am going to stick with it even if all of the evidence is completely contrary to what I based my initial decision on" Bush leadership was as stupid then as it would be now. It is completely moronic to act just because at an earlier time you said you were going to act, when new facts clearly make that action unwarranted.

As I have pointed out, nobody has destroyed America and our standing in the world like Republicans. Google what other countries think of the Tea Party and their control of the Republican party. I think you will find that your leadership are looked upon far more harshly in the world community than Obama...with good reason.
 
May 27, 2012
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"I get that Fox opposes the Syria peace plan because its modus operandi is to foment dissent in the form of a relentless, irrational contrarianism to Barack Obama and all things Democratic to advance its ultimate objective of creating a deliberately misinformed body politic whose fear, anger, mistrust and discontent is the manna upon which it sustains its parasitic, succubus like existence, BUT... sorry, I blacked out for a second I was saying something?"--Jon Stewart

Yea, what he said...the bolded is too fu*king awesome for words. The underlined is proven daily.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/11/jon-stewart-destroys-fox-news-syria_n_3906294.html

Once again, Jon Stewart destroys your bullsh!t rhetoric.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
That strategist is a moron.

I was thinking about this on the way home, and particularly your suggestion (and every other Republican's suggestion) that Obama has weakened our standing in the international community. It seems funny that you or anyone who supported the Bush administration for 8 years would have anything to say about our standing in the international community because for 8 years, nobody had respect for us. George W. Bush destroyed our standing like no other president in our lifetime. So, like the slowly growing economy that we'd all like to see growing faster, we'd all like to see our standing in the international community growing faster and stronger than it is. But reality (the bane of a conservative's existence) again presents us with the abject fact that wherever we are right now, we are head and shoulders above where we were with that idiot cowboy and his merry band of chicken hawks in the White House.

Obama has proven one thing, the idiocy of "I said it so I am going to stick with it even if all of the evidence is completely contrary to what I based my initial decision on" Bush leadership was as stupid then as it would be now. It is completely moronic to act just because at an earlier time you said you were going to act, when new facts clearly make that action unwarranted.

As I have pointed out, nobody has destroyed America and our standing in the world like Republicans. Google what other countries think of the Tea Party and their control of the Republican party. I think you will find that your leadership are looked upon far more harshly in the world community than Obama...with good reason.
It seems funny that you or anyone who supported the Bush administration for 8 years would have anything to say about our standing in the international community because for 8 years, nobody had respect for us. George W. Bush destroyed our standing like no other president in our lifetime.
Not in the real world... Perhaps in pacifist circles... but Hussein came to have some respect for us. As did Qadaffi (gave up nuclear program voluntarily in 2003). As did Al Qaida leadership. The Brits respected us until just recently.

I could go on.

So, like the slowly growing economy that we'd all like to see growing faster, we'd all like to see our standing in the international community growing faster and stronger than it is.
The crescendo for US respect was the day Obama was sworn in to office in 2009, or possible when Obama was awarded the Nobel prize. Gonna close Gitmo, re-set with Russia, stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc.

Instead, in the real world, we have Bush policies. In some instances, even worse. Our standing internationally id falling faster than Obama's approval ratings. And he's done this to himself.

But reality (the bane of a conservative's existence)
Yeah, uh, no. Up is down, etc.

wherever we are right now, we are head and shoulders above where we were with that idiot cowboy and his merry band of chicken hawks in the White House.
Well, a lot of people who would normally agree with nearly all of your positions don't agree with this one.

Obama has proven one thing, the idiocy of "I said it so I am going to stick with it even if all of the evidence is completely contrary to what I based my initial decision on" Bush leadership was as stupid then as it would be now.
No. Obama is out of his depth. It exceptionally obvious.

It is completely moronic to act just because at an earlier time you said you were going to act, when new facts clearly make that action unwarranted.
What new facts? What is different? Did Assad not use chemical weapons? Or did he? That was the line. Now that he may or may not have used them he may or may not give them up. In which case we may or may not send in the unbelievably small strike. Unless Putin tells us not to.

Google what other countries think of the Tea Party and their control of the Republican party.
Google what other countries think of Obama nowadays. Compare that to when he was elected in 2008.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
"I get that Fox opposes the Syria peace plan because its modus operandi is to foment dissent in the form of a relentless, irrational contrarianism to Barack Obama and all things Democratic to advance its ultimate objective of creating a deliberately misinformed body politic whose fear, anger, mistrust and discontent is the manna upon which it sustains its parasitic, succubus like existence, BUT... sorry, I blacked out for a second I was saying something?"--Jon Stewart

Yea, what he said...the bolded is too fu*king awesome for words. The underlined is proven daily.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/11/jon-stewart-destroys-fox-news-syria_n_3906294.html

Once again, Jon Stewart destroys your bullsh!t rhetoric.
Getting your news from Jon Stewart is worse than getting your news from Fox. Sorry.

You may not have noticed, but I don't post stuff from Fox because you guys will go all apoplectic on me.

Point being, this 'rhetoric' isn't rhetoric at all. Many reasonable people see this president as exactly what he is. A nice enough guy who hasn't a clue.
 
May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
Not in the real world... Perhaps in pacifist circles... but Hussein came to have some respect for us. As did Qadaffi (gave up nuclear program voluntarily in 2003). As did Al Qaida leadership. The Brits respected us until just recently.

I could go on.



The crescendo for US respect was the day Obama was sworn in to office in 2009, or possible when Obama was awarded the Nobel prize. Gonna close Gitmo, re-set with Russia, stop the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, etc.

Instead, in the real world, we have Bush policies. In some instances, even worse. Our standing internationally id falling faster than Obama's approval ratings. And he's done this to himself.



Yeah, uh, no. Up is down, etc.



Well, a lot of people who would normally agree with nearly all of your positions don't agree with this one.



No. Obama is out of his depth. It exceptionally obvious.



What new facts? What is different? Did Assad not use chemical weapons? Or did he? That was the line. Now that he may or may not have used them he may or may not give them up. In which case we may or may not send in the unbelievably small strike. Unless Putin tells us not to.



Google what other countries think of Obama nowadays. Compare that to when he was elected in 2008.
Again, you can pretend that Qadaffi "respected" Bush if you want. You can pretend Hussen "respected" Bush if you want. You can even pretend al Qaeda "respected" Bush if you want. Just because you kill a bunch of people does not mean you have respect. <--Republican foreign policy for the past 40 years. In fact, I find it horrifically tragic that you seem to believe starting wars garners respect. It doesn't surprise me that a Republican would say such a thing though. But by your measure, I am guessing that guy that Bush didn't "really care about," bin Laden had "respect" for Obama the moment before that bullet went through his head. You might have heard of him.

Go around the world and take a poll. The only one out of their depth is you pontificating about our standing in the world. Bush destroyed it. Obama has brought much less vitriolic denunciation, and the great majority of our allies find us much more palatable.
 
May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
Getting your news from Jon Stewart is worse than getting your news from Fox. Sorry.

You may not have noticed, but I don't post stuff from Fox because you guys will go all apoplectic on me.

Point being, this 'rhetoric' isn't rhetoric at all. Many reasonable people see this president as exactly what he is. A nice enough guy who hasn't a clue.
The irony here is that you are comparing a fake news show to Fox news. That you Republicans never seem to understand that is mystifying to me.

Stewart doesn't give "news." He gives satirical commentary on the news...and the best source if Fox news, and that's because of exactly what he quoted. BTW, you don't quote Fox, but you post from WND??!!! Seriously???!!!.

Many people see the Republican Tea Party base as exactly what they are, a bunch of racists who talk about the constitution, but don't actually understand a word of it. Just today, I saw a couple of fu*king idiots on an overpass with a sign with two flags hanging off it, saying that Obama needs to be impeached...um, do the morons on the right calling for that even understand the requirements for impeachment or any of the other words in the constitution? Don't answer, it is and always has been obvious what the answer to that question is.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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ChewbaccaD said:
Again, you can pretend that Qadaffi "respected" Bush if you want. You can pretend Hussen "respected" Bush if you want. You can even pretend al Qaeda "respected" Bush if you want. Just because you kill a bunch of people does not mean you have respect. <--Republican foreign policy for the past 40 years. In fact, I find it horrifically tragic that you seem to believe starting wars garners respect. It doesn't surprise me that a Republican would say such a thing though. But by your measure, I am guessing that guy that Bush didn't "really care about," bin Laden had "respect" for Obama the moment before that bullet went through his head. You might have heard of him.

Go around the world and take a poll. The only one out of their depth is you pontificating about our standing in the world. Bush destroyed it. Obama has brought much less vitriolic denunciation, and the great majority of our allies find us much more palatable.
Scott seems to forget the worldwide poll before the last general election which showed a huge one-sided support in favour of Obama. Bush shattered the image of the US along with the Republicans. Did Bush ever extend the arm out to Iran? Remember Ayatollah Khomeini praising Obama for his handling of the Iran issue and criticising the Republicans for their inflammatory comments during the Presidential nomination debates which weren't helping the matter.
 
May 27, 2012
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gooner said:
Scott seems to forget the worldwide poll before the last general election which showed a huge one-sided support in favour of Obama. Bush shattered the image of the US along with the Republicans. Did Bush ever extend the arm out to Iran? Remember Ayatollah Khomeini praising Obama for his handling of the Iran issue and criticising the Republicans for their inflammatory comments during the Presidential nomination debates which weren't helping the matter.
It's always bizarro world with conservatives. They rule for 8 years and destroy our economy and world standing, and then turn around and pretend it never happened. It really is what Stewart said, they have create misinformed voters to survive.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
Again, you can pretend that Qadaffi "respected" Bush if you want. You can pretend Hussen "respected" Bush if you want. You can even pretend al Qaeda "respected" Bush if you want. Just because you kill a bunch of people does not mean you have respect. <--Republican foreign policy for the past 40 years. In fact, I find it horrifically tragic that you seem to believe starting wars garners respect. It doesn't surprise me that a Republican would say such a thing though. But by your measure, I am guessing that guy that Bush didn't "really care about," bin Laden had "respect" for Obama the moment before that bullet went through his head. You might have heard of him.

Go around the world and take a poll. The only one out of their depth is you pontificating about our standing in the world. Bush destroyed it. Obama has brought much less vitriolic denunciation, and the great majority of our allies find us much more palatable.
Just because you kill a bunch of people does not mean you have respect.
In that part of the world it does.

Hussein killed a ****load of people, as did Qaddafi, as has Al Qaida.

In fact, I find it horrifically tragic that you seem to believe starting wars garners respect.
Is that what I wrote? No, it's not.

It doesn't surprise me that a Republican would say such a thing though.
Well, I'm not a Republican and I didn't say such a thing so I'm going to assume you are not talking about me.

The only one out of their depth is you pontificating about our standing in the world.
Tell me, who's on our side with the Syria issue? Who is ready to stand with us and shoot? You sure as hell are not. Yet you defend blindly the guy that's ready to do it against the wishes of nearly everyone. Sound familiar?

Now that we've ceded leadership to Putin I guess we will just have to hope for the best. I'm sensing this has all been, basically by design. I mean, if you are right, all we had to do is cede all influence in the world to raise our standing... get others to like us again.

Hopefully Putin has Americas best interests at heart.:rolleyes:
 
May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
In that part of the world it does.

Hussein killed a ****load of people, as did Qaddafi, as has Al Qaida.
Another thing that is mystifying to me is that conservatives do not understand that fear and respect are not the same thing.



Scott SoCal said:
Tell me, who's on our side with the Syria issue? Who is ready to stand with us and shoot? You sure as hell are not. Yet you defend blindly the guy that's ready to do it against the wishes of nearly everyone. Sound familiar?
I don't know man, sounds like this new plan has the support of many countries...

Scott SoCal said:
Now that we've ceded leadership to Putin I guess we will just have to hope for the best. I'm sensing this has all been, basically by design. I mean, if you are right, all we had to do is cede all influence in the world to raise our standing... get others to like us again.

Hopefully Putin has Americas best interests at heart.:rolleyes:
A false characterization. How is trying to work with one of the few countries that has any influence over Syria ceding anything? That is just the newest conservative talking point because you have to ensure you don't actually support anything yourselves, you just need to question everything Obama does, and you'll be fine...only this strategy hasn't really done you too many favors in national elections.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
The irony here is that you are comparing a fake news show to Fox news. That you Republicans never seem to understand that is mystifying to me.

Stewart doesn't give "news." He gives satirical commentary on the news...and the best source if Fox news, and that's because of exactly what he quoted. BTW, you don't quote Fox, but you post from WND??!!! Seriously???!!!.

Many people see the Republican Tea Party base as exactly what they are, a bunch of racists who talk about the constitution, but don't actually understand a word of it. Just today, I saw a couple of fu*king idiots on an overpass with a sign with two flags hanging off it, saying that Obama needs to be impeached...um, do the morons on the right calling for that even understand the requirements for impeachment or any of the other words in the constitution? Don't answer, it is and always has been obvious what the answer to that question is.
The irony here is that you are comparing a fake news show to Fox news.
Not irony. That you bring a comedic/pundit criticizing the arch enemy (Fox, on which he's occasionally paid to appear) is interesting. You agree with a comic take. Okay. Got it.

Stewart doesn't give "news." He gives satirical commentary on the news...and the best source if Fox news, and that's because of exactly what he quoted. BTW, you don't quote Fox, but you post from WND??!!! Seriously???!!!.
FFS... you know Stewart was apoplectic with the IRS scandal? Oddly I don't remember you quoting Stewart on that one.

You are almost no different than me and you know it. We are opposite but not different.

Many people see the Republican Tea Party base as exactly what they are, a bunch of racists who talk about the constitution, but don't actually understand a word of it. Just today, I saw a couple of fu*king idiots on an overpass with a sign with two flags hanging off it, saying that Obama needs to be impeached
Why bring this to the discussion? I'm not in love with the TP and you know it. You can try and lump me in with them if you want but it takes away from your points and does not get under my skin. It's a lose-lose for you.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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gooner said:
Scott seems to forget the worldwide poll before the last general election which showed a huge one-sided support in favour of Obama. Bush shattered the image of the US along with the Republicans. Did Bush ever extend the arm out to Iran? Remember Ayatollah Khomeini praising Obama for his handling of the Iran issue and criticising the Republicans for their inflammatory comments during the Presidential nomination debates which weren't helping the matter.
Scott does not forget. Take that same poll today and see what you get. It won't be anything like what you got.

Iran.... Holy ****. Khomeini praising Obama. That's great. It won't be long before Putin is praising Obama as well.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
It's always bizarro world with conservatives. They rule for 8 years and destroy our economy and world standing, and then turn around and pretend it never happened. It really is what Stewart said, they have create misinformed voters to survive.

Is that what happened? Republicans destroyed the economy? All by themselves? You were there, you know better, this is bull****. And you know it.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
Another thing that is mystifying to me is that conservatives do not understand that fear and respect are not the same thing.





I don't know man, sounds like this new plan has the support of many countries...



A false characterization. How is trying to work with one of the few countries that has any influence over Syria ceding anything? That is just the newest conservative talking point because you have to ensure you don't actually support anything yourselves, you just need to question everything Obama does, and you'll be fine...only this strategy hasn't really done you too many favors in national elections.
Another thing that is mystifying to me is that conservatives do not understand that fear and respect are not the same thing.
So I guess it is respect of Obama that convinced the Syrians to give up their chemical weapons? Or was it the treat of force? I guess it depends of which administration official liar is talking.

How is trying to work with one of the few countries that has any influence over Syria ceding anything?
No, you're right. We should of course take Putin at his word. He's totally trustworthy. Totally.

I tell you something I support: Not trusting the Russians. How about you?
 
May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
Not irony. That you bring a comedic/pundit criticizing the arch enemy (Fox, on which he's occasionally paid to appear) is interesting. You agree with a comic take. Okay. Got it.



FFS... you know Stewart was apoplectic with the IRS scandal? Oddly I don't remember you quoting Stewart on that one.

You are almost no different than me and you know it. We are opposite but not different.



Why bring this to the discussion? I'm not in love with the TP and you know it. You can try and lump me in with them if you want but it takes away from your points and does not get under my skin. It's a lose-lose for you.
No, the comedy is inherent to any Fox News story. All Stewart does is point out the absurdity. Fox does all the heavy comedic lifting, and the greatest part of the comedy is that they don't even know they're doing it.

I point out the Tea Party because they are a creation of your side's ideology. No way around it. That is what you get when you appeal to racists. They take their racism, and your ideas, and forge a weapon that you can't stop. Sorry, but that's the tale of the tape.
 
May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
Is that what happened? Republicans destroyed the economy? All by themselves? You were there, you know better, this is bull****. And you know it.
It wasn't their fault, but it's all Obama's (up to and including the response to Katrina)...got it.
 
May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
So I guess it is respect of Obama that convinced the Syrians to give up their chemical weapons? Or was it the treat of force? I guess it depends of which administration official liar is talking.



No, you're right. We should of course take Putin at his word. He's totally trustworthy. Totally.

I tell you something I support: Not trusting the Russians. How about you?
And they have said the Russians are "completely trustworthy" when? Oh wait, another talking point. Hey, I'm getting good at this identifying Republican bullsh!t...maybe I need to call Comedy Central?
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Scott SoCal said:
Scott does not forget. Take that same poll today and see what you get. It won't be anything like what you got.
I'm sure people would prefer Romney now.:rolleyes:

Iran.... Holy ****. Khomeini praising Obama. That's great. It won't be long before Putin is praising Obama as well.
The praise was in response to Obama's comments saying their was a window of opportunity for diplomacy.

I suppose the Bush adminstration's practically non-engagement policy and beating the war drums is the way to go. Or Romney saying in the primary debates that he would have no problem in bombing Iran if it came to it. That would achieve a lot. Don't listen to Gates at all saying attacking Iran would haunt America for a generation. Only Obama at the moment seems to have the shackles on Netanyahu from doing so in the future.

Take Libya where it was delegated a lot to the UK and France and McCain and the Republicans criticising Obama for taking a more back seat in it. There is this mindset in some American politicians that they have to be forefront of all world affairs where they have to be seen as even above their allies. It comes across as egotistical to outsiders like myself.
 
May 27, 2012
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Bachmann, Gohmert, and King went to Egypt...holy fu*king gobs of monkey brained bullfu*k you sent the fu*king clown car to the middle east? My sincere hope is that this is a brilliant move on the part of the Republican leadership to leave them there...please tell me you are leaving them there...for the love of all that's holy and full of chocolate, please tell me that was a brilliant ruse.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
And they have said the Russians are "completely trustworthy" when? Oh wait, another talking point. Hey, I'm getting good at this identifying Republican bullsh!t...maybe I need to call Comedy Central?
And yet who is running the show? And we ceded control to whom?

Good idea? Maybe you ought to call CC and tell them that. You might make prime time.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
No, the comedy is inherent to any Fox News story. All Stewart does is point out the absurdity. Fox does all the heavy comedic lifting, and the greatest part of the comedy is that they don't even know they're doing it.

I point out the Tea Party because they are a creation of your side's ideology. No way around it. That is what you get when you appeal to racists. They take their racism, and your ideas, and forge a weapon that you can't stop. Sorry, but that's the tale of the tape.
Well I guess you better just connect me with the Klan then. I here they don't like confiscatory taxation either.:rolleyes:
 

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