U.S. Politics

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May 27, 2012
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Scott SoCal said:
Don't worry. We'll have single payer around the end of this decade.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2013/09/23/when-health-insurance-sticker-shock-meets-the-death-spiral/

Hopefully single payer works well. Personally, I'd have rather seen some bi-partisanship, but that is so last century.
Yea, the fu*king Tea Party Patriots took over your party, and that was the end of that. They're your fu*king problem, and you are carrying their water today regardless of the protests you make about disliking them. You are fully in their camp on this issue, and this is their pet issue. Keep spreading the disease dude.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Wallace said:
And you call what the Republicans are doing here negotiating? Tell that to the kids in the soon to be unfunded Head Start programs or the vets who need compensation payments, denied because of Republican extortion. Again: ACA and CR: two unrelated things. Do you really deny that this is legislative irresponsibility? I'm not asking about the viability or effectiveness of Obamacare. Obamacare really is only a diversion, as far as I'm concerned--it's just the stick the Republicans are trying to beat Obama with (as in, Mary Mother of God, their original insane list of demands)--if it was't the ACA it would be something else. The issue is the Republicans using the well-being of helpless citizens as a device in bit of political gamesmanship.
Wow. It's all the fault of one side. Entirely.

Hey man. It's one party rule. Has been for sometime.

And you are right. Everybody who has a R by their name wants the poor to die. Kids to go hungry. They are known for their disdain for all things military.

Goddam. I'm surprised it took you guys so long to figure that out. R's are also all bigot, racists, homophobes and hate women. And evil.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
Yea, the fu*king Tea Party Patriots took over your party, and that was the end of that. They're your fu*king problem, and you are carrying their water today regardless of the protests you make about disliking them. You are fully in their camp on this issue, and this is their pet issue. Keep spreading the disease dude.
I've already said I not in favor of a shutdown. Already said that. That I can understand the position the R's are in makes me your target.

You do realize I am in Cali, not DC, right?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Wow. It's all the fault of one side. Entirely.

Hey man. It's one party rule. Has been for sometime.

And you are right. Everybody who has a R by their name wants the poor to die. Kids to go hungry. They are known for their disdain for all things military.

Goddam. I'm surprised it took you guys so long to figure that out. R's are also all bigot, racists, homophobes and hate women. And evil.
Why so sad Scott :(? Buck up: you won! You won! Feels awesome, I bet.

And yes--in a procedural sense, this situation is entirely of the Republicans' doing. Again: the Democrats have never shut down the government or refused to pay the bills over political differences. I guess we're just weak that way.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Hugh Januss said:
You clowns lost in 2 elections, lost in the house and senate, now you are digging your little heels in and screaming no no no we will not eat dinner if you make us have universal heath care. In short you guys fkucing sukc and can go eat siht for all I care, we are tired of putting up with your childish tirades.
And I say this with all due respect, buddy.
We haven't lost the house yet. But that's gonna happen soon enough.

Just think HJ, as goes Cali so goes the rest of the country. Just sit tight. The R's have just shot themselves in the head.

It's odd to me how you guys bear zero responsibility in this. None. You are attempting to kill your opposition, you are succeeding wildly and then get quite indignant when a few who are being killed attempt to fight back.

The temerity of those ****ers not to just die already.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Wallace said:
Why so sad Scott :(? Buck up: you won! You won! Feels awesome, I bet.

And yes--in a procedural sense, this situation is entirely of the Republicans' doing. Again: the Democrats have never shut down the government or refused to pay the bills over political differences. I guess we're just weak that way.
What did I win?
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Wallace said:
Why so sad Scott :(? Buck up: you won! You won! Feels awesome, I bet.

And yes--in a procedural sense, this situation is entirely of the Republicans' doing. Again: the Democrats have never shut down the government or refused to pay the bills over political differences. I guess we're just weak that way.
1977: shutdown for 2weeks...
The Democratic-controlled House continued to uphold the ban on using Medicaid dollars to pay for abortions, except in cases where the life of the mother was at stake. Meanwhile, the Democratic-controlled Senate pressed to loosen the ban to allow abortion funding in the case of rape or incest. A funding gap was created when disagreement over the issue between the houses had become tied to funding for the Departments of Labor and HEW, leading to a partial government shutdown. A temporary agreement was made to restore funding through October 31, 1977, allowing more time for Congress to resolve its dispute.
1977: shutdown for 9 days.
The earlier temporary funding agreement expired. President Jimmy Carter signed a second funding agreement to allow for more time for negotiation.
1978: shut down for 9 days.
The second temporary funding agreement expired. The House held firm against against the Senate in its effort to ban Medicaid paying for the abortions of victims of statutory rape. A deal was eventually struck which allowed Medicaid to pay for abortions in cases resulting from rape, incest, or in which the mother's health is at risk.
1978: over 2weeks.
Deeming them wasteful, President Carter vetoed a public works appropriations bill and a defense bill including funding for a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. Spending for the Department of HEW was also delayed over additional disputes concerning Medicaid funding for abortion.

1979: almost 2 weeks. 1979
Against the opposition of the Senate, the House pushed for a 5.5 percent pay increase for congress members and senior civil servants. The House also sought to restrict federal spending on abortion only to cases where the mother's life is in danger, while the Senate wanted to maintain funding for abortions in cases of rape and incest.
Uh, lessee, a D pres, D house and D senate.

But I suppose if it's just D's fighting with each other it doesn't really count.
 
Scott SoCal said:
Oh my. Do you realize that appropriations for our govt emanate from the House? As in, for two elections, the purse strings are controlled by those fvcking nut-cases on the other side.

The better question is why won't Obama and his fellow Ds listen to the concerns of the opposition and more importantly, the American people?...


Now you have just stated the D's position. There's no negotiating, no good faith, nothing. Your side just tells everybody, including many of their own to just sit down and STFU. That you agree with their position is THE ONLY reason you aren't up in arms about this "disgraceful" episode...


The ACA is a disaster. It's been a disaster from the moment and manner in which it was passed. The R's are convinced it will continue to be a disaster. But you are right. Once it's here, it's here. Good or bad....

And what shall we call today's D? The D's really don't have far to look to see why they can't seem to get along with the other side. They don't want to, have never wanted to and will never want to. There are no more adults on the D side than the R no matter how you wish to spin it.
But you weren't concerned when the neocon Bush administration got the US taxpayers bogged down in its multi-trillion dollar imperialist wars. Federal spending to provide healthcare to all citizens, on the other hand, is evil. I get it.

There's "no negotiating" on the left, because the right doesn't want to negotiate, doesn't see that there is anything to negotiate at all, because America is not to become some damn Euro-inspired socialist bogyman. Isn't that right, Sir Scotty?

Negotiate, from the Latin negotium, implies that two rational parties have some common interest in the affair; whereas it is quite clear that the irrational right has no interest whatsoever in tackling what is an egregious injustice on the part of the world's richest state: namely, that it can pay for multiple wars, but won't pay (from its own tax payers contributions) for its citizens healthcare. The republicans simply are not interested in the fact that at least 50 million Americans have no formal medical coverage. They don't see anything wrong with a privatized system excluding such a significant proportion of the US population from its bought services (since if you can't buy it yourself, that's your fu-cking problem. It’s a free goddamn country!). Above all they don't see a social model, that has successfully provided medical care for its citizens for decades, costs less and has full support from European conservatives, as the only rational, egalitarian and consequently just means to provide what is considered a sacrosanct birthright in the wealthy countries - which is a major reason for having all that national wealth in the first place, together with having good public education and solid infrastructures. In short they don't see progressive democracy as the possible solution to the American debacle (and shame), because they believe in so called individual freedom, which, in the end, however, is really belief in the tyranny of the individual and a de facto feudal capitalism.

Even the "taking away my freedom" mantra is pure delirious BS, since where is it written that a private option will be eliminated? This too exists in Europe, so what’s to fear other than the other side will get all the credit for actually having been useful for once?

Besides the majority of Americans want healthcare reform and in a democracy the majority voice is the one to which the government must respond. Evidently, then, the detractors among the minority, should get priority (this, though, is what is normally referred to as tyranny - other than the despotism of Obama and the left). It's amazing how the republican party can so obviously manipulate and distort reality and so hypocritically.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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Machiavelli would be proud. Let an entire section of your country collapse for a few days for your own political goals, just because 50 million people will need an insurance, but careful guys. The red commies are out to get you with their socialist & communist plans. Destroying American values and taking away your freedom.

America is embarassing itself.
 
May 2, 2010
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So the Republicans are still throwing a massive hissy fit over losing the previous 2 elections. They are putting a higher value on the politics than what is good for the country. I'd call them ****ing retards, but that would be unfair to retards.
 
May 18, 2009
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ChewbaccaD said:
Yea, the fu*king Tea Party Patriots took over your party, and that was the end of that. They're your fu*king problem, and you are carrying their water today regardless of the protests you make about disliking them. You are fully in their camp on this issue, and this is their pet issue. Keep spreading the disease dude.
How does it feel when the light finally comes on? Welcome to reality, the 'friendly' kind. :rolleyes:
 
May 27, 2012
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ChrisE said:
How does it feel when the light finally comes on? Welcome to reality, the 'friendly' kind. :rolleyes:
Why are you so invested in my decision to disagree with, but not deny that I like Scott? I like the guy. We are butting heads seriously now, but so what? One of my favorite professors is extremely conservative, and we got into heated debates over the constitutionality of DOMA, and several other issues. But the guy is brilliant, and very interesting to talk with. I have only strengthened my positions by withstanding his challenges. I also recognize that there is merit to his positions, but also that he is more than his positions.

It's the same with Scott.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChrisE said:
How does it feel when the light finally comes on? Welcome to reality, the 'friendly' kind. :rolleyes:
Erm, didn't you just say in one of your recent idiotic posts that I have railed against ACA from the start? Carrying the water for the Tea Party? Aren't you famous for saying a broken clock is right twice a day?

I even agree with democrats on more than one issue. Gawd knows what that makes me.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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ChewbaccaD said:
Why are you so invested in my decision to disagree with, but not deny that I like Scott? I like the guy. We are butting heads seriously now, but so what? One of my favorite professors is extremely conservative, and we got into heated debates over the constitutionality of DOMA, and several other issues. But the guy is brilliant, and very interesting to talk with. I have only strengthened my positions by withstanding his challenges. I also recognize that there is merit to his positions, but also that he is more than his positions.

It's the same with Scott.
Because he's trolling.

Slept on it last night. Did a little research this morning. There have been govt shutdowns for far sillier reasons.

But the R's should not have gone down this road. I understand how invested one can be in one's positions, but this tactic not only won't work but it just hastens their demise.

But like the old saying goes, when your political opponent is intent on committing suicide, let him.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Just f*ing awesome! This is the most political excitement in years!

This could last for many weeks, after all, no matter how long this goes, Congress still gets a full paycheck with full benefits.

And no Obamacare. But they work hard preening for the camera.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Damn, you guys have been busy during my night. Velo appears to have morphed into Chewey to continue the eternal struggle with Scott. Been fun reading through these pages.

Here's a comprehensive list of all shutdowns for you, Scott. If you look carefully, you will note that not once - ever - has any shutdown occurred because the minority party is attempting to defund, rescind, or repeal an existing law that has even been passed by the most conservative SCOTUS in our lifetime, via the backdoor of attaching an unreasonable and unrealistic demand that everyone knows will never pass, to a standard CR that should be passed as a matter of course so that the government can function.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/25/here-is-every-previous-government-shutdown-why-they-happened-and-how-they-ended/?tid=sm_fb
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
Slept on it last night. Did a little research this morning. There have been govt shutdowns for far sillier reasons.

But the R's should not have gone down this road. I understand how invested one can be in one's positions, but this tactic not only won't work but it just hastens their demise.

But like the old saying goes, when your political opponent is intent on committing suicide, let him.
Didn't see this before I posted my previous reply. Indeed, there have been "sillier" reasons. But, to repeat, not once did a minority party attempt to have an existing, constitutional law scrapped by such a ridiculously outrageous, hostage-taking, backdoor tactic.

Of course, the bottom line is that we never previously had any political grouping (with any power) as totally batsh!t insane as the current American Taliban Tea Party. One can only hope that this episode will lead to their final demise at the polls next year, but I'm not holding my breath. I have learned not to underestimate the awesome depths of stupidity that permeates the entire political and electoral systems, nor indeed, the stupidity of so many of the electorate.
 
Amsterhammer said:
Damn, you guys have been busy during my night. Velo appears to have morphed into Chewey to continue the eternal struggle with Scott. Been fun reading through these pages.

Here's a comprehensive list of all shutdowns for you, Scott. If you look carefully, you will note that not once - ever - has any shutdown occurred because the minority party is attempting to defund, rescind, or repeal an existing law that has even been passed by the most conservative SCOTUS in our lifetime, via the backdoor of attaching an unreasonable and unrealistic demand that everyone knows will never pass, to a standard CR that should be passed as a matter of course so that the government can function.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/25/here-is-every-previous-government-shutdown-why-they-happened-and-how-they-ended/?tid=sm_fb
That's been long lost from this discussion (although it's implicit in Alpe's stance) and also gone from any of Scott's remarks the past few days (or whatver): the fact that the entire political process has shifted so far to the right during our various lifetimes that little of the old standards and values remain in any meaningful sense. For all the opposition to Obamacare, it's not as if he set out to overturn the medical industry itself.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Havetts said:
Machiavelli would be proud. Let an entire section of your country collapse for a few days for your own political goals, just because 50 million people will need an insurance, but careful guys. The red commies are out to get you with their socialist & communist plans. Destroying American values and taking away your freedom.

America is embarassing itself.
Hey Tommy! Long time....is this your first ever post here?

Your message is possibly a little simplified, but is a fair reflection of how most Europeans react to the tragicomic theater of the absurd that we have witnessed in recent days.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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Wallace said:
You do realize that what the Republicans in congress are doing is attempting legislation by blackmail, don't you? By attaching an entirely unrelated ideological demand to the necessary business of passing a CR, the Republicans are threatening to wreak havoc on the financial well-being of millions of US citizens (and, soon enough, of the country itself) over an issue which has nothing to do with the CR. Only your party does this. I suppose you call it playing political hardball. I think most voters recognize it for the disgusting, irresponsible thing it is: extortion. Of course the democrats won't "negotiate" in this manner.
An excellent summary. All the Reps out there in social media land, screaming that it's all the fault of the POTUS because he refuses to 'negotiate', are the same people who normally shout loudest that there can and should be no negotiation with 'terrorists'. And yet, they are deeply wounded and offended to see their congressional subversives widely referred to as 'political terrorists'.

P.S. The shutdown means that the National Zoo's panda cam has gone offline.
 
Scott SoCal said:
And no Obamacare. But they work hard preening for the camera.
Not sure what you meant, but even with the shutdown, even if the debt ceiling isn't raised in two weeks and the country defaults, it won't affect Obamacare, won't cut one penny from it. That's the beauty of all this!

Can't wait for the next two weeks. This is going to be more entertaining than Watergate and Clinton's cigar smushed together. Besides, those events were too damned serious. As Amster said, this is theater of the absurd (at its finest!).

:)
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Not sure what you meant, but even with the shutdown, even if the debt ceiling isn't raised in two weeks and the country defaults, it won't affect Obamacare, won't cut one penny from it. That's the beauty of all this!

Can't wait for the next two weeks. This is going to be more entertaining than Watergate and Clinton's cigar smushed together. Besides, those events were too damned serious. As Amster said, this is theater of the absurd (at its finest!).

:)
You wrote:

Congress still gets a full paycheck with full benefits.
Full benefits that include not having to be subjected to Obamacare. :eek:

Next you'll tell me I should stick to my day job.
 

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