U.S. Politics

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ChewbaccaD said:
Free market creates efficiency you say?

4 phone calls, over 4 hours of time with AT&T. Overcharged for a month of service that we requested to have removed (and were told had been completed...after the second time we asked), told there is absolutely NOTHING that can be done about it. Nothing. Told the service was disconnected on October 26, and that we were "pro-rated" an amount from October 26th to November 25th. I told the manager (who it took being on hold for 2 hours to get to the worker dude, and then 30 more minutes to get to the manager) "That isn't 'pro-rating,' that's charging me for a month after you disconnected the service. She said, "Let me look into that." On hold for 15 more minutes. She comes back and says "You're right Mr. Walters, we removed those charges."

Here was our request, that took over 4 hours to get right: "We want to remove long distance from our service."<-- That's it.

Some observations:

1. The AT&T call center was located in another country, so it was done by outsourced jobs.

2. When people b!tch about service from government entities, the people they are complaining about are Americans, working in the US.

3. If this is the efficiency of the market at work, you'll have to excuse me when I laugh the next time I hear a story about the DMV or talking with someone at Healthcare.gov.

4. My story is a walk in the park when compared to what my wife went through to have her AT&T service moved from one office to a new office last November...which was finally rectified about the time we decided to move to California...which then created the problem of simply disconnecting the services she purchased from them...which took 2 more months of calls. My wife is a patient woman, not prone to profanity or outburst. Here is a quote from her final call to AT&T: "Well F*CKING DO SOMETHING!! Be different, be unique and f*cking do something!"

5. Neither of us got ANYWHERE talking calmly and being patient. It was only when we both completely freaked-out that something was done. Sad.
That is hard my man. I'm glad you guys were finally able to establish a level of adequation.

Here's some perspective for you

"Capitalism ensures that you don’t have to spend every waking hour looking for food or worrying about illness, injury, or death; capitalism allows even the poor some time to pursue other things — things that can lead to “fulfillment,” a term with a meaning so broad as to be meaningless in a discussion of economics."

http://spectator.org/articles/61135/david-brooks-insults-capitalism

You're right: cops are doing a good job too. People who don't like it can go back to Africa and work for the Chinese.
 
May 27, 2012
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aphronesis said:
That is hard my man. I'm glad you guys were finally able to establish a level of adequation.

Here's some perspective for you

"Capitalism ensures that you don’t have to spend every waking hour looking for food or worrying about illness, injury, or death; capitalism allows even the poor some time to pursue other things — things that can lead to “fulfillment,” a term with a meaning so broad as to be meaningless in a discussion of economics."

http://spectator.org/articles/61135/david-brooks-insults-capitalism

You're right: cops are doing a good job too. People who don't like it can go back to Africa and work for the Chinese.
That made me chuckle, thanks...though it's nowhere near being in the realm of my point about police officers.

Nor is discussion of theoretical capitalism, as my point was directed at capitalism in actual practice. If everyone would just follow the rules, capitalism would be AMAZING!!! OMG!!!...
 
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Verizon isn't any better. We cancelled our service and returned our equipment when we moved last April. We kept the receipts for the retuned equipment but were notified in June that they were charging us $900 dollars for the equipment that we " didn't return". My wife called and explained that we had the receipts for the returned equipment and the Verizon said it would be fixed . We get another bill in July with a fee for the equipment and a late charge. Called again to complain and was told this happens to everyone that turns in equipment and cancels service. Verizon said they would take care of it. Another month and another bill. Got the same service as before until September when we received a letter from a collection company. Called and explained the situation and they asked if we wanted to start a monthly payment plan. Emailed copies of the receipts to collection company and they stopped the mess so far. Haven't heard anything more from Verizon.
 
ChewbaccaD said:
That made me chuckle, thanks...though it's nowhere near being in the realm of my point about police officers.

Nor is discussion of theoretical capitalism, as my point was directed at capitalism in actual practice. If everyone would just follow the rules, capitalism would be AMAZING!!! OMG!!!...
Nor was your riff on cops anywhere in the realm of mine.

And so on.

Right, some people talking about capitalism, business and the private sector still do so with a language that suggests the priority were still human advancement (as was partially the case during the transition to the secular age), but this has long since ceased to be the case.

For a primer on the hallucinatory levels of current issues--hypocrisy, repression and denial-- in the US--one that neatly parallels the SF video, this article covers it. (And I'm referring to the author, not his target).

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/03/opinion/christies-pig-crate-politics.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region&region=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region&_r=0
 
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aphronesis said:
Nor was your riff on cops anywhere in the realm of mine.

And so on.

Right, some people talking about capitalism, business and the private sector still do so with a language that suggests the priority were still human advancement (as was partially the case during the transition to the secular age), but this has long since ceased to be the case.

For a primer on the hallucinatory levels of current issues--hypocrisy, repression and denial-- in the US--one that neatly parallels the SF video, this article covers it. (And I'm referring to the author, not his target).

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/03/opinion/christies-pig-crate-politics.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region&region=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region&_r=0
My riff on cops wasn't directed at one of your posts. I responded to someone else. Get off the cross, we need the wood.

Thanks for the OPED though, half way through, and it is everything you premised it would be.
 
May 27, 2012
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aphronesis said:
Do you hum that to yourself in the shower every morning?

If you quote me before starting a polemic, you'll want to imagine that the person named takes up the address.

That aside, I'd imagine you were playing devil's advocate.
I quoted Juan when I started the "polemic" regarding police officers as it were. Check the tape. You then responded, so my polemic stands.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1609883&postcount=16904
 
ChewbaccaD said:
I quoted Juan when I started the "polemic" regarding police officers as it were. Check the tape. You then responded, so my polemic stands.
All the fresh air and provincial separatism getting to you out there? I'm referring strictly to your uptake on the polemic when you quoted and responded to me.

I know school's out, but this is called following and developing an argument--not reverting to origins. If I cared about what you said to Juan in its specifics, I would have said so.

No surprise the discussion of issues on a national level is at such an abysmal low.
 
May 27, 2012
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aphronesis said:
All the fresh air and provincial separatism getting to you out there? I'm referring strictly to your uptake on the polemic when you quoted and responded to me.

I know school's out, but this is called following and developing an argument--not reverting to origins. If I cared about what you said to Juan in it's specifics, I would have said so.
You responded to a post I made to someone else, and now want to suggest you and your posts were part of my point. They weren't and aren't. The need for wood stands.

And you did say so when you quoted my post to Juan...
 
May 27, 2012
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aphronesis said:
No surprise the discussion of issues on a national level is at such an abysmal low.
Now it's my fault that the intertube interactions on national policy is at an all-time low...I RULE!!!
 
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What is most interesting is the controversy over my post of personal experience, where I suggested that my interaction with police on a personal level left me with the belief that most police officers are doing the job asked of them, are serious and thoughtful about their jobs, and are not the tentacles of a nefarious plot to wipe African Americans off the face of North America...

If you guys want to characterize the police in that manner, feel free. I suspect if there are more of you, there will be a run on the metals that make up tin foil.
 
ChewbaccaD said:
You responded to a post I made to someone else, and now want to suggest you and your posts were part of my point. They weren't and aren't. The need for wood stands.

And you did say so when you quoted my post to Juan...
If not the fresh air, I guess it's lack of meds. Luckily you'll have a stenographer in court.

I quoted you responding to Blutto about the institution of the police. Not what you said to Juan.

As with the usual adolescent attacks here, you've never been able to get past that human/personal element of the cops to work in the institutional/systemic aspect.

That's cool: friends and family on the force; they did you and yours a solid when things were sad (Boo hoo). Just don't pretend to have anything of objective substance to say.
 
May 27, 2012
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aphronesis said:
If not the fresh air, I guess it's lack of meds. Luckily you'll have a stenographer in court.

I quoted you responding to Blutto about the institution of the police. Not what you said to Juan.

As in with the usual adolescent attacks here, you've never been able to get past that human/personal element of the cops to work in the institutional/systemic aspect.

That's cool: friends and family on the force; they did you and yours a solid when things were sad (Boo hoo). Just don't pretend to have anything of objective substance to say.
Then Blutto was responding to what I said to Juan...

Either way, if your diatribe is considered "objective substance" in this, you really overestimate your worth.
 
May 27, 2012
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aphronesis said:
If not the fresh air, I guess it's lack of meds. Luckily you'll have a stenographer in court.

I quoted you responding to Blutto about the institution of the police. Not what you said to Juan.

As with the usual adolescent attacks here, you've never been able to get past that human/personal element of the cops to work in the institutional/systemic aspect.

That's cool: friends and family on the force; they did you and yours a solid when things were sad (Boo hoo). Just don't pretend to have anything of objective substance to say.
...since you updated

Anyway, if you read my posts, you will see that I addressed the systemic aspect, and suggested that taking on the point of the spear is not really effective in breaking the shaft. But you carry on if it makes you happy.
 
ChewbaccaD said:
Then Blutto was responding to what I said to Juan...

Either way, if your diatribe is considered "objective substance" in this, you really overestimate your worth.
Which has nothing to do with me. You need some more coffee?

Says the man promoting wholesome, liberal democratic values, the oppressed conditions of the inner city poor, and screaming at call service workers. Try to gain a little perspective squire.
 
ChewbaccaD said:
...since you updated

Anyway, if you read my posts, you will see that I addressed the systemic aspect, and suggested that taking on the point of the spear is not really effective in breaking the shaft. But you carry on if it makes you happy.
Doesn't make me happy at all. Just scratching your itch.

Yes, I read the part where you said that in all its deep profundity. You of course ignored the part where I said that articulating their specific role in the problem is not the same as direct confrontation as the be all and end all of the issue.

You've already demonstrated that you're the one here who's a little patchy on the discussion. But keep promoting your bellicose infallibility.
 
May 27, 2012
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aphronesis said:
Which has nothing to do with me. You need some more coffee?

Says the man promoting wholesome, liberal democratic values, the oppressed conditions of the inner city poor, and screaming at call service workers. Try to gain a little perspective squire.
You're so consistent, criticisms like that aren't hypocritical at all...
 
May 27, 2012
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aphronesis said:
Doesn't make me happy at all. Just scratching your itch.

Yes, I read the part where you said that in all its deep profundity. You of course ignored the part where I said that articulating their specific role in the problem is not the same as direct confrontation as the be all and end all of the issue.

You've already demonstrated that you're the one here who's a little patchy on the discussion. But keep promoting your bellicose infallibility.
Your level of porfundity makes you a legend in your own mind...

You sided with someone, by proxy, who suggested that the police in the US were systematically exterminating African Americans..."bellicose infallibility" indeed...

Soooo deep...
 
ChewbaccaD said:
You're so consistent, criticisms like that aren't hypocritical at all...
It's not a criticism it's an insult. As with Scott, I don't get paid here to write what would constitute a critique of your position. And you're already too fired up wasting your morning for it to matter if I did.

You see me promoting any such values? No, I don't think so.
 
May 27, 2012
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aphronesis said:
It's not a criticism it's an insult. As with Scott, I don't get paid here to write what would constitute a critique of your position. And you're already too fired up wasting your morning for it to matter if I did.

You see me promoting any such values? No, I don't think so.
The irony of this post is delicious. Mmmm
 
ChewbaccaD said:
Your level of porfundity makes you a legend in your own mind...

You sided with someone, by proxy, who suggested that the police in the US were systematically exterminating African Americans..."bellicose infallibility" indeed...

Soooo deep...
No, I didn't side with someone by proxy. You associated me by proxy. There's a difference.

The discussion being had was not the systematic extermination, but the systemic production of a permanent criminal class.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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aphronesis said:
It's not a criticism it's an insult. As with Scott, I don't get paid here to write what would constitute a critique of your position. And you're already too fired up wasting your morning for it to matter if I did.

You see me promoting any such values? No, I don't think so.
And yet you continually do it for free anyway.

All of us here get what we pay for. Surely we can all agree on that.
 
May 27, 2012
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aphronesis said:
No, I didn't side with someone by proxy. You associated me by proxy. There's a difference.

The discussion being had was not the systematic extermination, but the systemic production of a permanent criminal class.
A quote from the offending post from Juan (which I responded to, which Blutto quoted, which you then, by proxy, defended...because my post to Juan dealt ONLY with his assertion that the police were part of a nefarious plot to exterminate African Americans):

I always tell my black friends this: Whites in this country (as was the case with South Africa,) from the very beginning, wanted it just for themselves. They killed most of the Indians, and blacks are definitely "unfinished business" for them. The only difference now, from 1890, is that it's the police doing the dirty work
Now, if you want to pretend that my post had anything to do with your diatribe on the subject, that's your call. What I'd suggest is that I never entered into a discussion with you at all on the subject, it was the other way around. Nor do I care to enter into a discussion with you on the topic. It's all about priorities, and my assessment of value of a given poster's commentary. Sorry to inform you that I consider much of what you write to be things someone says to a mirror to bolster their self-worth.
 
May 27, 2012
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aphronesis said:
Yes, because you'll often find me arguing in favor of Democrats and democratic values.
No, it was delicious because, as is always the case with delicious irony, the one producing didn't get it.
 

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