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Dec 7, 2010
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I am glad to be keeping you so entertained. There are millions of votes being cast in an election, to suggest there is no fraud whatsoever is naive. But if we are to target fraud why are we not targeting the main driver of it (i.e. absentee ballots)? Would you consider a utility bill as proper identification for voting? what about a SS card? Or does it need to have a picture and be issued by a the federal gov't? Because we know from standardized testing that picture IDs never lead to incidences of fraud.

The reason that the Texas ID law was struck down was because it was determined to target minority populations. Even if these laws are not meant to do so (debatable!), if the result is discriminatory, they violate the voting rights act. In big cities, you would be amazed at how many people have the necessary IDs to pass the strictest voter ID laws or the documents to obtain them.

We think of voting as being this apparatus of godlike precision, but counting votes contains a margin for error itself no matter what method is used. Fraud is probably at the same level, meaning it only affects elections that end up in statistical ties. So why should we focus on that and not on improving voter access and infrastructure?
How many states Nort of the Mason Dixon Line have Voter ID laws?

Yeah I'm glad the two of you or three or four are keeping me entertained as well. Sometimes we need to laugh.

So black people are going to not vote because of an ID? If someone wants to do something bad enough they will do it. I have to admit I did not realize that the state ID in texas was not acceptable for people in texas to vote. What are they exactly accepting once this law starts?

If you are poor / laid off your job / down on your luck / and need some state or federal assistance do you have to have any identification? Or can you just go in and make up a name and give someone's SSN?
 
Glenn_Wilson said:
How many states Nort of the Mason Dixon Line have Voter ID laws?

Yeah I'm glad the two of you or three or four are keeping me entertained as well. Sometimes we need to laugh.

So black people are going to not vote because of an ID? If someone wants to do something bad enough they will do it. I have to admit I did not realize that the state ID in texas was not acceptable for people in texas to vote. What are they exactly accepting once this law starts?

If you are poor / laid off your job / down on your luck / and need some state or federal assistance do you have to have any identification? Or can you just go in and make up a name and give someone's SSN?
The majority of states have voter ID laws, but the specifics and severity vary greatly depending on the state. Strict voter ID laws tend to correlate with Red states in the South and Heartland, but not always. The link below has a good map of the distribution and what is acceptable in different states.

The 2014 election in Texas was held under the voter ID law that was struck down in 2015, and the world did not end. I don't think voter ID laws swing the vast majority of elections, despite what the Pennsylvania Sec of State suggested would happen in 2012, but it is a policy that makes it harder to vote for no discernible gain IMO. I also think long lines and eliminating early voting suppress the vote more than ID laws and they are often falsely linked in the same 'voter fraud' political agendas.

The ID laws disproportionately target poor people for the reasons that have already been mentioned, so they will inevitably target minorities because, unfortunately, those groups have way too much overlap.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott’s office scrubbed release that cleared Planned Parenthood





By CHRISTINE SEXTON 5:08 a.m. | Sep. 2, 2015
'
TALLAHASSEE — Gov. Rick Scott's office scrubbed a press release written by his own regulators that found there was no "mishandling of fetal remains" at clinics run by Planned Parenthood and, at the same time, said it would refer doctors who worked at those clinics to the state Board of Medicine for possible disciplinary action.

.........

But emails between Scott's office, the Agency for Health Care Administration and Planned Parenthood show top officials working for Scott reworded an agency press release to delete information AHCA officials had proposed including.

The state released its findings of the Planned Parenthood investigations on Aug. 5. Emails between the governor’s office and AHCA, obtained by POLITICO Florida through a public records request, show the agency prepared a press release that same day noting that “there is no evidence of the mishandling of fetal remains at any of the 16 clinics we investigated across the state.”

Scott's office revised the release to exclude that sentence, an email sent by Scott’s communications director, Jackie Schutz, shows. Additionally, the revised release noted the AHCA would refer physicians who worked at the clinics to the Board of Medicine for possible disciplinary action.

Cheers
 
Re:

blutto said:
....the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott’s office scrubbed release that cleared Planned Parenthood





By CHRISTINE SEXTON 5:08 a.m. | Sep. 2, 2015
'
TALLAHASSEE — Gov. Rick Scott's office scrubbed a press release written by his own regulators that found there was no "mishandling of fetal remains" at clinics run by Planned Parenthood and, at the same time, said it would refer doctors who worked at those clinics to the state Board of Medicine for possible disciplinary action.

.........

But emails between Scott's office, the Agency for Health Care Administration and Planned Parenthood show top officials working for Scott reworded an agency press release to delete information AHCA officials had proposed including.

The state released its findings of the Planned Parenthood investigations on Aug. 5. Emails between the governor’s office and AHCA, obtained by POLITICO Florida through a public records request, show the agency prepared a press release that same day noting that “there is no evidence of the mishandling of fetal remains at any of the 16 clinics we investigated across the state.”

Scott's office revised the release to exclude that sentence, an email sent by Scott’s communications director, Jackie Schutz, shows. Additionally, the revised release noted the AHCA would refer physicians who worked at the clinics to the Board of Medicine for possible disciplinary action.

Cheers
Hilarious. It won't matter that this is exposed for what it obviously is. They have their wedge issue and will hang onto it despite facts or reason, because it gives them a differentiation point and riles up the base. No one who has decided (without any facts) that PP practices are disgusting and immoral will back off that position now, they'll just dig in their heels harder.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re:

blutto said:
....the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott’s office scrubbed release that cleared Planned Parenthood





By CHRISTINE SEXTON 5:08 a.m. | Sep. 2, 2015
'
TALLAHASSEE — Gov. Rick Scott's office scrubbed a press release written by his own regulators that found there was no "mishandling of fetal remains" at clinics run by Planned Parenthood and, at the same time, said it would refer doctors who worked at those clinics to the state Board of Medicine for possible disciplinary action.

.........

But emails between Scott's office, the Agency for Health Care Administration and Planned Parenthood show top officials working for Scott reworded an agency press release to delete information AHCA officials had proposed including.

The state released its findings of the Planned Parenthood investigations on Aug. 5. Emails between the governor’s office and AHCA, obtained by POLITICO Florida through a public records request, show the agency prepared a press release that same day noting that “there is no evidence of the mishandling of fetal remains at any of the 16 clinics we investigated across the state.”

Scott's office revised the release to exclude that sentence, an email sent by Scott’s communications director, Jackie Schutz, shows. Additionally, the revised release noted the AHCA would refer physicians who worked at the clinics to the Board of Medicine for possible disciplinary action.

Cheers
I did not realize Scott was in office. :D
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Glenn_Wilson said:
I am glad to be keeping you so entertained. There are millions of votes being cast in an election, to suggest there is no fraud whatsoever is naive. But if we are to target fraud why are we not targeting the main driver of it (i.e. absentee ballots)? Would you consider a utility bill as proper identification for voting? what about a SS card? Or does it need to have a picture and be issued by a the federal gov't? Because we know from standardized testing that picture IDs never lead to incidences of fraud.

The reason that the Texas ID law was struck down was because it was determined to target minority populations. Even if these laws are not meant to do so (debatable!), if the result is discriminatory, they violate the voting rights act. In big cities, you would be amazed at how many people have the necessary IDs to pass the strictest voter ID laws or the documents to obtain them.

We think of voting as being this apparatus of godlike precision, but counting votes contains a margin for error itself no matter what method is used. Fraud is probably at the same level, meaning it only affects elections that end up in statistical ties. So why should we focus on that and not on improving voter access and infrastructure?
If someone wants to do something bad enough they will do it.
I don't think you're getting this, Glenn. Voter ID laws place an undue burden on certain ethnic, age, and racial groups. That's a violation of the Voting Rights Act.
 
Jul 4, 2009
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Re: Re:

Glenn_Wilson said:
blutto said:
....the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott’s office scrubbed release that cleared Planned Parenthood





By CHRISTINE SEXTON 5:08 a.m. | Sep. 2, 2015
'
TALLAHASSEE — Gov. Rick Scott's office scrubbed a press release written by his own regulators that found there was no "mishandling of fetal remains" at clinics run by Planned Parenthood and, at the same time, said it would refer doctors who worked at those clinics to the state Board of Medicine for possible disciplinary action.

.........

But emails between Scott's office, the Agency for Health Care Administration and Planned Parenthood show top officials working for Scott reworded an agency press release to delete information AHCA officials had proposed including.

The state released its findings of the Planned Parenthood investigations on Aug. 5. Emails between the governor’s office and AHCA, obtained by POLITICO Florida through a public records request, show the agency prepared a press release that same day noting that “there is no evidence of the mishandling of fetal remains at any of the 16 clinics we investigated across the state.”

Scott's office revised the release to exclude that sentence, an email sent by Scott’s communications director, Jackie Schutz, shows. Additionally, the revised release noted the AHCA would refer physicians who worked at the clinics to the Board of Medicine for possible disciplinary action.

Cheers
I did not realize Scott was in office. :D
...yup, and still up to his old tricks....an old dawg never changes his spots....

Cheers
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Yep.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/09/02/what-hillarys-sinking-poll-numbers-really-mean-in-one-chart/

"...at any rate, Clinton’s career appears to illustrate — perhaps to a unique degree — that the American people have consistently been much tougher on her when she’s a politician than when she isn’t. other words, if you look back at the big picture, none of what we’re seeing now is all that surprising."

And yep.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/09/iran-will-always-be-three-months-away-having-nukes

"Israeli leaders have been warning that Iran is three months away from a nuclear bomb for over two decades. There will always be new studies, new developments, and new conflicts that provide excuses for hysterical Fox News segments telling us we're all about to die at the hands of the ayatollahs. To see this in action, just take a look at Obamacare. All the top line evidence suggests it's working surprisingly well. Maybe better than even its own supporters thought it would. But that hasn't stopped a torrent of alarming reports that provide countless pretexts for predicting Obamacare's imminent doom. Premiums are going up 40 percent! Workers' hours are being slashed! You won't be able to see your family doctor anymore! Death panels! So have no worries. Iran could be nuclear free in 2050 and Bill Kristol's grandkids will still be warning everyone else's grandkids that the ayatollahs are this close to getting a bomb. It's kind of soothing, in a way, like a squeaky door that you'd miss if you ever oiled it."
 
Dec 7, 2010
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VeloCity said:
Glenn_Wilson said:
I am glad to be keeping you so entertained. There are millions of votes being cast in an election, to suggest there is no fraud whatsoever is naive. But if we are to target fraud why are we not targeting the main driver of it (i.e. absentee ballots)? Would you consider a utility bill as proper identification for voting? what about a SS card? Or does it need to have a picture and be issued by a the federal gov't? Because we know from standardized testing that picture IDs never lead to incidences of fraud.

The reason that the Texas ID law was struck down was because it was determined to target minority populations. Even if these laws are not meant to do so (debatable!), if the result is discriminatory, they violate the voting rights act. In big cities, you would be amazed at how many people have the necessary IDs to pass the strictest voter ID laws or the documents to obtain them.

We think of voting as being this apparatus of godlike precision, but counting votes contains a margin for error itself no matter what method is used. Fraud is probably at the same level, meaning it only affects elections that end up in statistical ties. So why should we focus on that and not on improving voter access and infrastructure?
If someone wants to do something bad enough they will do it.
I don't think you're getting this, Glenn. Voter ID laws place an undue burden on certain ethnic, age, and racial groups. That's a violation of the Voting Rights Act.
Yeah man I know I don't get it. I think I said that up thread.

About the Voting Rights Act. I thought that was a thing of the past now? I'm searching google now.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re: Re:

...yup, and still up to his old tricks....an old dawg never changes his spots....

Cheers

Yeah I think our Scott is off somewhere getting ready for Oktoberfest.

Hey about your post a few posts back - the judge in Necktucky. I thought the same thing when they are refusing to abide by the courts ruling with religious beliefs as the excuses it is the same as the Muzlims and the Shariez lawz.

WHAT A BUNCH OF NUMB NUTZ.
 
Apr 20, 2009
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Re: Re:

Glenn_Wilson said:
I think you are making things up when you say it is a solution in search of a problem. Why then did states other than the civil rights states in the south,,,,,have voter ID laws?

SO when you say there is no problem how do these registration places find folks who are cartoon characters and dead football players registering to vote? This has happened that is fraud.

I'm sorry but you Lib's who keep coming up with these half baked ideas about these ID's makes me laugh.

Your SSN card idea is a good one and probably would work. Makes way to much sense for the government we have today so maybe you will have to wait for a different administration to get something like that done.
Perhaps my original post wasn't clear, so I'll take your points one by one and explain.

I think you are making things up when you say it is a solution in search of a problem.
I am not sure what you think is being made up. Voter fraud is someone actually voting either more than once and/or in more than one location or under an assumed name or in place of someone else. Voter registration fraud, e.g. registering fake names, is not universally a crime. Perhaps it should be. But that is a different discussion. Voter fraud prosecutions are extremely rare, in spite of the vast number of resources both parties spend looking out for cheating.

Why then did states other than the civil rights states in the south,,,,,have voter ID laws?
This is a non sequitur. Just because there is a law doesn't necessarily mean there was a problem to begin with. Voter ID on the surface sounds like a good idea. However, it's implementation has created problems for some people.

I'm sorry but you Lib's ...
Another non sequitur. You assume because I point out problems where you see none that I must be the evil other.

...who keep coming up with these half baked ideas about these ID's makes me laugh.
What idea is half baked? Voter fraud isn't a problem? Voter ID laws are unfair? Something else? Actual voter fraud, people voting illegally, is demonstrably rare. Registering fake names is not voter fraud and isn't illegal as far as I know. Also, voter ID laws have been shown to have had deleterious effects on voter participation in some areas where they have been implemented.

There is nothing necessarily wrong with voter ID laws. Unfortunately, what we have now is a mix of laws with different requirements that are sometimes onerous and often suppress voter participation without having any impact on voter fraud. The laws suppress voter participation by making it difficult for some poor voters. They do not lower voter fraud because it is already almost zero. Again, bogus registration is not voter fraud.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Re: Re:

VeloCity said:
Glenn_Wilson said:
You guys make stuff up. No voter fraud??? so what is it when people register folks who are dead and fictitious names. That = Fraud.


Now the ID is an issue for you Lib's I can understand that. Because for you everything is a monumental task when it comes to getting out and getting a ID. So if the cost is an issue then they should offer ID's for free. No big deal.

I have never heard of someone saying a Passport, Drivers License, State ID is not good for voting. This is what Greggod is saying above.

Anyhow yall stay in that dream land you are living in where no one needs an ID to do anything.
Voter fraud is virtually non-existent, Glenn. All those stories you hear about dead people voting and fictitious names are made up. Invented. Imaginary.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The%20Truth%20About%20Voter%20Fraud.pdf

They're meant to scare people into believing that voter fraud is rampant and something has to be done about it, the primary one being that hordes of illegals are stuffing the ballots and tipping elections so we need voter ID laws when we really don't, and the only effect of voter ID laws has been to make voting harder for certain segments of the voting spectrum.

***. Al Franken is a sitting US Senator elected via voter fraud. The Chicago "vote early, vote often" way has been an open secret for a century. If you want to be a denier then feel free but it makes you look even sillier than you already do.

No rules voting is a nocturnal emission of you open society types. Utopia postponed. :rolleyes:
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Re: Re:

aphronesis said:
Scott SoCal said:
So, Krugman has now sunk to low grade trolling. Hard to believe anybody pays good money to sit in this dudes lecture hall and even harder to believe the Times pays this dim bulb for his opinion.

I know, now I’m supposed to be evenhanded, and point out equivalent figures on the Democratic side. But there really aren’t any; in modern America, cults of personality built around undeserving politicians seem to be a Republican thing.

True, some liberals were starry-eyed about Mr. Obama way back when, but the glitter faded fast, and what was left was a competent leader with some big achievements under his belt – most notably, an unprecedented drop in the number of Americans without health insurance. And Hillary Clinton is the subject of a sort of anti-cult of personality, whose most ordinary actions are portrayed as nefarious. (No, the email thing doesn’t rise to the level of a “scandal.”)
I know you don't get out much, but I imagine even you can work out where most of his students have tended to be drawn from and where they go on to have internships and careers.

And of course Piketty was wrong too. I did just read you post that right?

He's writing for the dim bulbs. Maybe you should work a little harder.

but I imagine even you can work out where most of his students have tended to be drawn from and where they go on to have internships and careers
I know. It scares me too.

And of course Piketty was wrong too. I did just read you post that right?
I mention Piketty as little as humanly possible so I think you are mistaken.

He's writing for the dim bulbs
Suffice it to say then they are on the same wavelength.
 
Apr 20, 2009
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Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
***. Al Franken is a sitting US Senator elected via voter fraud. The Chicago "vote early, vote often" way has been an open secret for a century. If you want to be a denier then feel free but it makes you look even sillier than you already do.

No rules voting is a nocturnal emission of you open society types. Utopia postponed. :rolleyes:
A few questions: If Al Franken was elected via voter fraud, why wasn't his election nullified? What is the evidence for this assertion and why aren't people being prosecuted for it? I have looked and have found anything to support this claim.

The Chicago "vote early, vote often" way has been an open secret for a century.
Again, what is the evidence of this? It may be true, but there is no evidence of this as far as I know in recent times.

No rules voting
A non sequitur. Nobody is calling for this. There have always been voting laws. New laws that make it more difficult to vote for some people is the problem. The constitution guarantees them protection.

Voter ID laws are not necessarily bad. They just need to be crafted with a bit more care than they have been and everyone on the political spectrum should be satisfied and confident in the integrity of the elections. They won't be, but they should.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
VeloCity said:
Glenn_Wilson said:
You guys make stuff up. No voter fraud??? so what is it when people register folks who are dead and fictitious names. That = Fraud.


Now the ID is an issue for you Lib's I can understand that. Because for you everything is a monumental task when it comes to getting out and getting a ID. So if the cost is an issue then they should offer ID's for free. No big deal.

I have never heard of someone saying a Passport, Drivers License, State ID is not good for voting. This is what Greggod is saying above.

Anyhow yall stay in that dream land you are living in where no one needs an ID to do anything.
Voter fraud is virtually non-existent, Glenn. All those stories you hear about dead people voting and fictitious names are made up. Invented. Imaginary.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The%20Truth%20About%20Voter%20Fraud.pdf

They're meant to scare people into believing that voter fraud is rampant and something has to be done about it, the primary one being that hordes of illegals are stuffing the ballots and tipping elections so we need voter ID laws when we really don't, and the only effect of voter ID laws has been to make voting harder for certain segments of the voting spectrum.

***. Al Franken is a sitting US Senator elected via voter fraud. The Chicago "vote early, vote often" way has been an open secret for a century. If you want to be a denier then feel free but it makes you look even sillier than you already do.

No rules voting is a nocturnal emission of you open society types. Utopia postponed. :rolleyes:
Can always count on Scott to provide a useful example. The "Al Franken only won by voter fraud!" is one of those exact con myths meant to rile up people like Scott that I was talking about.

http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2010/07/franken-coleman-senate-recount-flap-over-felon-votes-shows-gop-playing-fast-
http://electionlawblog.org/archives/016434.html

The "felons" thing was started by a conservative self-appointed "watchdog" group called Minnesota Majority. It was picked up by Fox News and then the conservative echo chamber. It was also complete *** - even Coleman's own lawyer acknowledged that it wasn't true.

Utopia is a libertarian concept, dude. Always has been.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Re: Re:

VeloCity said:
Scott SoCal said:
VeloCity said:
Glenn_Wilson said:
You guys make stuff up. No voter fraud??? so what is it when people register folks who are dead and fictitious names. That = Fraud.


Now the ID is an issue for you Lib's I can understand that. Because for you everything is a monumental task when it comes to getting out and getting a ID. So if the cost is an issue then they should offer ID's for free. No big deal.

I have never heard of someone saying a Passport, Drivers License, State ID is not good for voting. This is what Greggod is saying above.

Anyhow yall stay in that dream land you are living in where no one needs an ID to do anything.
Voter fraud is virtually non-existent, Glenn. All those stories you hear about dead people voting and fictitious names are made up. Invented. Imaginary.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The%20Truth%20About%20Voter%20Fraud.pdf

They're meant to scare people into believing that voter fraud is rampant and something has to be done about it, the primary one being that hordes of illegals are stuffing the ballots and tipping elections so we need voter ID laws when we really don't, and the only effect of voter ID laws has been to make voting harder for certain segments of the voting spectrum.

***. Al Franken is a sitting US Senator elected via voter fraud. The Chicago "vote early, vote often" way has been an open secret for a century. If you want to be a denier then feel free but it makes you look even sillier than you already do.

No rules voting is a nocturnal emission of you open society types. Utopia postponed. :rolleyes:
Can always count on Scott to provide a useful example. The "Al Franken only won by voter fraud!" is one of those exact con myths meant to rile up people like Scott that I was talking about.

http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2010/07/franken-coleman-senate-recount-flap-over-felon-votes-shows-gop-playing-fast-
http://electionlawblog.org/archives/016434.html

The "felons" thing was started by a conservative self-appointed "watchdog" group called Minnesota Majority. It was picked up by Fox News and then the conservative echo chamber. It was also complete *** - even Coleman's own lawyer acknowledged that it wasn't true.

Utopia is a libertarian concept, dude. Always has been.

More than 70 felony cases were brought between Ramsey and Hennepin Counties. It likely would have been more but for the legal standard for convicting someone of voter fraud in Minnesota is that they must have been both ineligible, and ‘knowingly’ voted unlawfully. It's not hard to prove ineligibility but it's damned hard to prove intent.

Let's not pretend this stuff doesn't happen or is all that rare. Feel free to read "Who's Counting" or "Dirty Little Secret" or "Deliver the Vote" or just peruse Wiki.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophelia_Ford
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Re: Re:

gregod said:
Scott SoCal said:
***. Al Franken is a sitting US Senator elected via voter fraud. The Chicago "vote early, vote often" way has been an open secret for a century. If you want to be a denier then feel free but it makes you look even sillier than you already do.

No rules voting is a nocturnal emission of you open society types. Utopia postponed. :rolleyes:
A few questions: If Al Franken was elected via voter fraud, why wasn't his election nullified? What is the evidence for this assertion and why aren't people being prosecuted for it? I have looked and have found anything to support this claim.

The Chicago "vote early, vote often" way has been an open secret for a century.
Again, what is the evidence of this? It may be true, but there is no evidence of this as far as I know in recent times.

No rules voting
A non sequitur. Nobody is calling for this. There have always been voting laws. New laws that make it more difficult to vote for some people is the problem. The constitution guarantees them protection.

Voter ID laws are not necessarily bad. They just need to be crafted with a bit more care than they have been and everyone on the political spectrum should be satisfied and confident in the integrity of the elections. They won't be, but they should.
A few questions: If Al Franken was elected via voter fraud, why wasn't his election nullified?
Because Coleman exhausted his legal options then did the honorable thing and conceded. I'm not saying Coleman was clean. I'm saying if one thinks fraud doesn't happen then one is being naïve.

What is the evidence for this assertion and why aren't people being prosecuted for it?
More than 70 felony prosecutions.

Again, what is the evidence of this? It may be true, but there is no evidence of this as far as I know in recent times.
Chicago Trib reporter Bill Mullen, Rock Island County, Alexander County.... there was a HuffPo or Slate piece discussing the fact that 14 of 100 Illinois counties had more registered voters than residents. If I can find it I'll post it.

A non sequitur. Nobody is calling for this.
Not true. U.S. District Judge Lynn Adelman, Judge Bernard McGinley, Circuit Court Judge Timothy Davis Fox just to name a few. Oh, and Velocity.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Re: Re:

Scott SoCal said:
VeloCity said:
Scott SoCal said:
VeloCity said:
Glenn_Wilson said:
You guys make stuff up. No voter fraud??? so what is it when people register folks who are dead and fictitious names. That = Fraud.


Now the ID is an issue for you Lib's I can understand that. Because for you everything is a monumental task when it comes to getting out and getting a ID. So if the cost is an issue then they should offer ID's for free. No big deal.

I have never heard of someone saying a Passport, Drivers License, State ID is not good for voting. This is what Greggod is saying above.

Anyhow yall stay in that dream land you are living in where no one needs an ID to do anything.
Voter fraud is virtually non-existent, Glenn. All those stories you hear about dead people voting and fictitious names are made up. Invented. Imaginary.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/The%20Truth%20About%20Voter%20Fraud.pdf

They're meant to scare people into believing that voter fraud is rampant and something has to be done about it, the primary one being that hordes of illegals are stuffing the ballots and tipping elections so we need voter ID laws when we really don't, and the only effect of voter ID laws has been to make voting harder for certain segments of the voting spectrum.

***. Al Franken is a sitting US Senator elected via voter fraud. The Chicago "vote early, vote often" way has been an open secret for a century. If you want to be a denier then feel free but it makes you look even sillier than you already do.

No rules voting is a nocturnal emission of you open society types. Utopia postponed. :rolleyes:
Can always count on Scott to provide a useful example. The "Al Franken only won by voter fraud!" is one of those exact con myths meant to rile up people like Scott that I was talking about.

http://www.minnpost.com/politics-policy/2010/07/franken-coleman-senate-recount-flap-over-felon-votes-shows-gop-playing-fast-
http://electionlawblog.org/archives/016434.html

The "felons" thing was started by a conservative self-appointed "watchdog" group called Minnesota Majority. It was picked up by Fox News and then the conservative echo chamber. It was also complete *** - even Coleman's own lawyer acknowledged that it wasn't true.

Utopia is a libertarian concept, dude. Always has been.

More than 70 felony cases were brought between Ramsey and Hennepin Counties. It likely would have been more but for the legal standard for convicting someone of voter fraud in Minnesota is that they must have been both ineligible, and ‘knowingly’ voted unlawfully. It's not hard to prove ineligibility but it's damned hard to prove intent.

Let's not pretend this stuff doesn't happen or is all that rare. Feel free to read "Who's Counting" or "Dirty Little Secret" or "Deliver the Vote" or just peruse Wiki.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophelia_Ford
yet velo, greggodz, dasdftsbaltimore, etc wanted to school me on what is fraud.

What ever folks. I have seen people actually vote more than once with my own 2 eyes. Maybe I was in a Demo Utopian classic diarrhea state but I actually witnessed it. So maybe that is not fraud to you Lib's cause you have a habit to want to debate the definition of *** such as IS is IS what is IS depends on your definition of is. WTF you guys are lost in socially correct la la land.

Only thing left is for the spawnofE to show up and tell me how this poor bastard who assassinated the Cop in Houston was a poor guy suffering from mental probs. Whatever man he was a cold blooded killer straight out of the Black lives matter krew.

You guys who claim to be Lib's do yall actually have friends or family of color? I mean other than your white a$$.
 
Apr 20, 2009
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Scott SoCal said:
A few questions: If Al Franken was elected via voter fraud, why wasn't his election nullified?
Because Coleman exhausted his legal options then did the honorable thing and conceded. I'm not saying Coleman was clean. I'm saying if one thinks fraud doesn't happen then one is being naïve.

What is the evidence for this assertion and why aren't people being prosecuted for it?
More than 70 felony prosecutions.

Again, what is the evidence of this? It may be true, but there is no evidence of this as far as I know in recent times.
Chicago Trib reporter Bill Mullen, Rock Island County, Alexander County.... there was a HuffPo or Slate piece discussing the fact that 14 of 100 Illinois counties had more registered voters than residents. If I can find it I'll post it.

A non sequitur. Nobody is calling for this.
Not true. U.S. District Judge Lynn Adelman, Judge Bernard McGinley, Circuit Court Judge Timothy Davis Fox just to name a few. Oh, and Velocity.
Thanks for the reply.

The fact that fraud happened is not the same as Franken was elected via fraud. Was the amount of fraud greater than the difference in the number of votes? On a side note. You mentioned in another post that intent had to be proved in order to gain a conviction. That is a pretty reasonable standard given the disparity in laws around the country. If I remember correctly, Ann Coulter once voted in a place where she did not meet the legal resident requirements and was not prosecuted for this. I am only guessing, but she was probably not prosecuted because there was no intent to defraud. It seems to be a reasonable standard.

On your second point, it would not be surprising if many voting districts all over the US had more registered voters than residents. There could be any number of non-nefarious reasons for this. While it is troubling, it is not voter fraud. Registration fraud maybe-it depends on the local laws.

Finally, just because those judges invalidated laws doesn't mean that there is a widespread movement to get rid of all voting laws. The voter identification laws were invalidated because the laws were judged to be in violation of either the Civil Rights Act and/or the 24th amendment to the Constitution. This is not the same as calling for no voting laws.
 
Apr 20, 2009
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Glenn_Wilson said:
yet velo, greggodz, dasdftsbaltimore, etc wanted to school me on what if fraud.

What ever folks. I have seen people actually vote more than once with my own 2 eyes. Maybe I was in a Demo Utopian classic diarrhea state but I actually witnessed it. So maybe that is not fraud to you Lib's cause you have a habit to want to debate the definition of **** such as IS is IS what is IS depends on your definition of is. WTF you guys are lost in socially correct la la land.

Only thing left is for the spawnofE to show up and tell me how this poor bastard who assassinated the Cop in Houston was a poor guy suffering from mental probs. Whatever man he was a cold blooded killer straight out of the Black lives matter krew.

You guys who claim to be Lib's do yall actually have friends or family of color? I mean other than your white a$$.
This post makes me sad.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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gregod said:
Glenn_Wilson said:
yet velo, greggodz, dasdftsbaltimore, etc wanted to school me on what if fraud.

What ever folks. I have seen people actually vote more than once with my own 2 eyes. Maybe I was in a Demo Utopian classic diarrhea state but I actually witnessed it. So maybe that is not fraud to you Lib's cause you have a habit to want to debate the definition of **** such as IS is IS what is IS depends on your definition of is. WTF you guys are lost in socially correct la la land.

Only thing left is for the spawnofE to show up and tell me how this poor bastard who assassinated the Cop in Houston was a poor guy suffering from mental probs. Whatever man he was a cold blooded killer straight out of the Black lives matter krew.

You guys who claim to be Lib's do yall actually have friends or family of color? I mean other than your white a$$.
This post makes me sad.
your the one who told me what was what. How could it be sad for you?

Maybe a little self reflection.

Sometimes the truth just bucks up against reality. Then again maybe you want to school me on how voter fraud does not happen?
 
Dec 7, 2010
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gregod said:
Glenn_Wilson said:
yet velo, greggodz, dasdftsbaltimore, etc wanted to school me on what if fraud.

What ever folks. I have seen people actually vote more than once with my own 2 eyes. Maybe I was in a Demo Utopian classic diarrhea state but I actually witnessed it. So maybe that is not fraud to you Lib's cause you have a habit to want to debate the definition of **** such as IS is IS what is IS depends on your definition of is. WTF you guys are lost in socially correct la la land.

Only thing left is for the spawnofE to show up and tell me how this poor bastard who assassinated the Cop in Houston was a poor guy suffering from mental probs. Whatever man he was a cold blooded killer straight out of the Black lives matter krew.

You guys who claim to be Lib's do yall actually have friends or family of color? I mean other than your white a$$.
This post makes me sad.
I did not want you to be sad brah.
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Glenn_Wilson said:
yet velo, greggodz, dasdftsbaltimore, etc wanted to school me on what is fraud.

What ever folks. I have seen people actually vote more than once with my own 2 eyes. Maybe I was in a Demo Utopian classic diarrhea state but I actually witnessed it. So maybe that is not fraud to you Lib's cause you have a habit to want to debate the definition of **** such as IS is IS what is IS depends on your definition of is. WTF you guys are lost in socially correct la la land.

Only thing left is for the spawnofE to show up and tell me how this poor bastard who assassinated the Cop in Houston was a poor guy suffering from mental probs. Whatever man he was a cold blooded killer straight out of the Black lives matter krew.

You guys who claim to be Lib's do yall actually have friends or family of color? I mean other than your white a$$.
Maybe at some point this will actually sink in: voter fraud is so rare that it's virtually non-existent. Scott (unintentionally) demonstrates it - out of 2.5 million ballots cast in the 2008 MN vote, 38 were charged with voter fraud, 26 convicted. That's 0.000104. One thousandth of one percent. Even then the majority were felons who voted before their voting rights were restored but weren't aware that they couldn't vote - something that voter ID laws wouldn't prevent.

Voter ID laws wouldn't prevent anyone from voting twice, Glenn. All they do is prevent someone from claiming that they're someone else.
 
When I went to vote in 2008 Glenn, in the, then, most solidly black and professional middle/upper class neighborhood of Brooklyn (although I lived on the seedier grad student periphery), no one checked my ID, let alone proof of residence
 
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