U23 races and talents

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His win on Saturday was very impressive, he dominated. He looks to be in good form going into l'Avenir and I'm intrigued what he can bring this year. With this years course I'm tempted to say he won't repeat last years feat, but he's a weird rider. Often when you expect him on his terrain he's nowhere to be found, and when you expect him to crumble in the high mountains he does so well limiting damage. With the downfall of CCC I'm wondering where he'll end up as well, in the right environment, say DQS, he could become an elite rider. Friuli is quitely becoming an elite program, with Jonathan Milan's emergence as well, and I haven't given up on Fabbro either.
They also have produced both Bais brothers, they are a great regional team and actually knownbfor taking it slow and letting their riders slowly develope, so there should be lots of room to improve for them once they turn pro.
Aleotti is more of a one day racer than a stage race, he admits it himself, so l'Avenir was mostly an outliner and to be honest it was a really strange race.
He's got a great engine, is a good climber (mainly on shorter climbs) and packs a decent sprint. The races he'd want to win are LBL and Emilia.
 
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It is completely insane to cater a championship towards the lesser riders by excluding the better ones.
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That's fine if they organize a championships for the pro u23s. Or is it more fair that Brenner has to race 250km against van der Poel or Alaphilippe if he wants to participate, than guys nearly 5 years older who are not pro, face Brenner? Which do you think makes more sense?
It is free to all to race in the mens WC race. So free for Brenner to race Alaphilippe. Nothing unfair. If Brenner is not up to it, don't become a pro.

The one who organizes a U23 category can descide what the definition is. It could be an age limit, or it could apply difference between amature and pro racers.
You don't have to give it more meaning then that.

From a UCI point of view, they know it takes time for riders to make it to pro level.
Not all have the body that allows them to be a silver meddle in WC ITT at 20. It takes a lot more time for most. At the same time there is the issue that for those not pro level yet it is hard to have good races for them. So UCI organizes this category for them. It is just the waiting chambre for pro riders.
If something could be debated it would be rather the age bracket. It could be just as well 24 or 25.
Don't see it as the best unter 23; just see it as the waiting chambre for pro. If you made it to the pros, no need to bother at that U23 level.
 
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Basically, you want an amateur league. That's what i meant earlier.

And still it doesn't make sense, because, like i pointed out, you will now force riders to chose. Brenner (for instance) has no place in a pro WCC. He might however have a place in a pro team, which might actually make him a better cyclist. So according to you, he has to chose, ride a WCC with guys your age, or become better. I'm sorry, but this just goes against the spirit of the sport. You are either excluding the best riders, or you are clipping their wings.
 
Jul 31, 2019
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Basically, you want an amateur league. That's what i meant earlier.

And still it doesn't make sense, because, like i pointed out, you will now force riders to chose. Brenner (for instance) has no place in a pro WCC. He might however have a place in a pro team, which might actually make him a better cyclist. So according to you, he has to chose, ride a WCC with guys your age, or become better. I'm sorry, but this just goes against the spirit of the sport. You are either excluding the best riders, or you are clipping their wings.
That is not me, that is the UCI who wants a waitings chambre for riders to become good enough to be pro one day. So yes, that is an amateur league ;-).
You seem to me too much focused on this age thing.

It is nice that you are worried about Brenner. You don't seem to have a lot of confidence in him for the coming years ;-). And if Brenner signs a WT team it is because he wants to race all riders, not just U23. Why would he care about guys of his age anyway?
But like Brenner there a a several hundreds of pro cyclist who will not be invited to the WCC, also +23. And maybe Brenner will not even ever ride a WCC when he is +23. He needs to be good enough to make it to the German team.
And if he one days stops being a pro, he can race in one of the many amateur leagues. Maybe they even have their own WCC.

Note that for the national championchips -at least in the Netherlands and Belgium, pro u23 riders have to compete in the pro NC and not allowed in U23 NC
So actual the WCC and Nation Cup are more an exception to general approach: U23 is first of all a waiting chambre, not about age -what you make of it.

Walter
 
That is not me, that is the UCI who wants a waitings chambre for riders to become good enough to be pro one day. So yes, that is an amateur league ;-).
You seem to me too much focused on this age thing.

It is nice that you are worried about Brenner. You don't seem to have a lot of confidence in him for the coming years ;-). And if Brenner signs a WT team it is because he wants to race all riders, not just U23. Why would he care about guys of his age anyway?
But like Brenner there a a several hundreds of pro cyclist who will not be invited to the WCC, also +23. And maybe Brenner will not even ever ride a WCC when he is +23. He needs to be good enough to make it to the German team.
And if he one days stops being a pro, he can race in one of the many amateur leagues. Maybe they even have their own WCC.

Note that for the national championchips -at least in the Netherlands and Belgium, pro u23 riders have to compete in the pro NC and not allowed in U23 NC
So actual the WCC and Nation Cup are more an exception to general approach: U23 is first of all a waiting chambre, not about age -what you make of it.

Walter
Obviously Brenner is just an example, but indeed i don't think he is the next Evenepoel, in that regard that he'll need more time to make the transition. I've said it many times before, but the number of wins doesn't matter nearly as much as the manner in which they were won. But that's a completely different discussion. I also raised the same point, that in case (like Evenepoel) the rider is eligible ("worthy") to ride a WCC with the big boys, that he will do so.

I could go on about your motivation to give the lesser boys a chance and why it doesn't make sense to block the few "Brenners" in order to do that. But i don't think that would make much of a difference. I'll agree to disagree on that one.
 
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Obviously Brenner is just an example, but indeed i don't think he is the next Evenepoel, in that regard that he'll need more time to make the transition. I've said it many times before, but the number of wins doesn't matter nearly as much as the manner in which they were won. But that's a completely different discussion. I also raised the same point, that in case (like Evenepoel) the rider is eligible ("worthy") to ride a WCC with the big boys, that he will do so.

I could go on about your motivation to give the lesser boys a chance and why it doesn't make sense to block the few "Brenners" in order to do that. But i don't think that would make much of a difference. I'll agree to disagree on that one.
The point is more that there are not just Brenners or Evenepoels. They can make living of their sport at 19. But there are more Van Avermaets who need to become 21 before they are ready to make a step up. A 20 year old Van Avermaet had nothing to search in a race against the 19 year old Brenner. He would be no competition for Brenner. It is to have these riders grow that there is U23. Not for a 19 year Brenner to shine on a WCC against some amateurs.

Walter
 
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And they can, throughout the entire year. We are talking about one or two races per year.
I don't understand what you mean here.
Do you mean that the WT unter 23 riders should be able to race the amateur unter 23 riders in a WCC?
Why would it be interesting anyway to have riders race each other in a WCC if they hardly race each other anyway during the year.
As said; they don't even do it in NC.

Walter
 

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