What a bunch of crap. Astana at the Gila would have been great for the event and the UCI implements some lame *** rule. George Bush hates black people and the UCI hates smaller races. Can't we all just get along!!!! 
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UCI Discriminates against "smaller races"
- Thread starter happygilmore
- Start date
When you said that, this classic media image immediately popped into my head so I just had to post it. But, I'm with ya on the TDG.
Gila is not a ProTour race and the continental teams need to have their share of the pie. Any Conti team left out for a ProTour team is a loss for the local Conti teams. The ruling is fair and just, the race almost went bust and then they're going to give it to a ProTour team to win against the Conti teams, to take the money and run so to speak?
No they did the right thing.
No they did the right thing.
UCI vs. Tour of the Gila
Like the global economy, cycling is also in a recession. A week doesn't go by w/out some bad news. We're living (surviving) in extraordinary times and we NEED to stimulate cycling and the economy.
Article 2 of the UCI constitution states their purpose as: b) to promote cycling in all the countries of the world and at all levels. d) to encourage FRIENDSHIP between all members of the cycling world.
I hope the UCI reconsiders their decision. They've hurt cycling and our small community.
-Tour of the Gila
http://www.tourofthegila.com
"Bummed to not be doing the Tour of the Gila in New Mexico - A great American race. Raincheck? Please support this great event." -Lance Armstrong
[The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of SRAM or Tour of the Gila.]
Like the global economy, cycling is also in a recession. A week doesn't go by w/out some bad news. We're living (surviving) in extraordinary times and we NEED to stimulate cycling and the economy.
Article 2 of the UCI constitution states their purpose as: b) to promote cycling in all the countries of the world and at all levels. d) to encourage FRIENDSHIP between all members of the cycling world.
I hope the UCI reconsiders their decision. They've hurt cycling and our small community.
-Tour of the Gila
http://www.tourofthegila.com
"Bummed to not be doing the Tour of the Gila in New Mexico - A great American race. Raincheck? Please support this great event." -Lance Armstrong
[The views expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of SRAM or Tour of the Gila.]
I have to disagree with you El Chingon. Cycling is popular in the US because of Lance. This race almost didn't make it this year because of the downturn in the global economy. Luckily, SRAM stepped in and saved it, but the presence of Lance and company would have been enormous to the community of Silver City. Who doesn't want to see a seven-time Tour winner race his bike in their event. Look at the Tour Down Under and the increased press coverage for that event. The UCI blew it on this one!
This is not as simple as just saying the UCI refused to let Astana race at Gila. How many teams/riders were refused entry to the race but somehow the Astana riders were allowed entry?
You mention economic problems for races - well what about the economic pressure being faced by teams? It really doesn't mean much for Leipheimer to race at Gila but it might mean a contract and money for a domestic rider.
You mention economic problems for races - well what about the economic pressure being faced by teams? It really doesn't mean much for Leipheimer to race at Gila but it might mean a contract and money for a domestic rider.
Slightly different tack but...
It's great that cycling is popular in the USA and it certainly has a lot to do with the Lance factor. The Lance thing is as much about him and his story as it is to do with cycling.
IMO it is a mistake for the UCI (or anyone else for that matter) to get too focussed on trying to appeal to a US fan base. I'll try to briefly explain my thinking...
I am not a big fan of national generalisations but the US sports market is so dominated (saturated) by their own Pro (and colleagic) sport scene there is not much space for anything else.
Look at soccer (football to most of the World!) the biggest sport on the planet and it barely has a foot hold in the States. Beckham came big fuss, Beckham left all gone quiet again! Sure loads of folks (particularly women and children) play soccer but it has little traction the 'market place' because of the domination of other sports. Likewise even more established sports like (ice) hockey can struggle to establish a new franchise. Same is true of Formula 1 trying to get a decent following out here.
If it were up to me I'd stick to getting and keeping the sport healthy just about everywhere else before I got into promoting cycling in the States (I would start in Germany)Sorry if this is not folks in the US want to hear but...to get things going in the market here (and it is a market more so than Europe or other parts of the globe) is v. expensive and the popular fan base is fickle.
I live in Vancouver BC (although originally from the UK) and cycling is hugely popular here much like the rest of the west coast of North America. I would love to see a race like ToC up here - maybe it could even be around the same time of year - it would be awesome. If it happens great but I wouldn't expect the UCI to go out of it's way to make it happen.
It's great that cycling is popular in the USA and it certainly has a lot to do with the Lance factor. The Lance thing is as much about him and his story as it is to do with cycling.
IMO it is a mistake for the UCI (or anyone else for that matter) to get too focussed on trying to appeal to a US fan base. I'll try to briefly explain my thinking...
I am not a big fan of national generalisations but the US sports market is so dominated (saturated) by their own Pro (and colleagic) sport scene there is not much space for anything else.
Look at soccer (football to most of the World!) the biggest sport on the planet and it barely has a foot hold in the States. Beckham came big fuss, Beckham left all gone quiet again! Sure loads of folks (particularly women and children) play soccer but it has little traction the 'market place' because of the domination of other sports. Likewise even more established sports like (ice) hockey can struggle to establish a new franchise. Same is true of Formula 1 trying to get a decent following out here.
If it were up to me I'd stick to getting and keeping the sport healthy just about everywhere else before I got into promoting cycling in the States (I would start in Germany
)Sorry if this is not folks in the US want to hear but...to get things going in the market here (and it is a market more so than Europe or other parts of the globe) is v. expensive and the popular fan base is fickle.I live in Vancouver BC (although originally from the UK) and cycling is hugely popular here much like the rest of the west coast of North America. I would love to see a race like ToC up here - maybe it could even be around the same time of year - it would be awesome. If it happens great but I wouldn't expect the UCI to go out of it's way to make it happen.
BigBoat said:
sorry don't agree, the UCI just sided with Armstrong on the shower debacle so why would do this now for a piddly race?
Something happened to make the UCI enforce the rule, a rule that's been in existence for a while now.
Can anyone say sandbagger??
What do you call it when a high category rider races a lower category because he is a little out of shape or needs a little cash It is called Sandbagging. The effect is often to drive the pace beyond the capability of the guys that could normally hang in. It is demoralizing for a cat 3 or 4 field to have a cat 1 race for training at the expense of the pack and recreational riders. To have 3 or 4 of the highest ranked stage racers in the world at a domestic race has a horrible effect on the guys who are at that Domestic level. Sure Astana has a great effect on the profile of the race and attracts spectators. These are definitely good things but what about the amateur team that keyed this race? What about the continental team that might just get enough recognition at the normal level of the race? Yes I am sure there are more than a few cat 1 riders that would think it is pretty cool to to ride with Lance or Levi but they won't be taking home any cash if the pro tour guys race hard. As a guy who generally sucked as a rider I know the fun just disappears at any race there was even 1 cat 2 in our group. They just make the race that much harder. I think it is a good rule and I'd guess I might be in the minority.
What do you call it when a high category rider races a lower category because he is a little out of shape or needs a little cash It is called Sandbagging. The effect is often to drive the pace beyond the capability of the guys that could normally hang in. It is demoralizing for a cat 3 or 4 field to have a cat 1 race for training at the expense of the pack and recreational riders. To have 3 or 4 of the highest ranked stage racers in the world at a domestic race has a horrible effect on the guys who are at that Domestic level. Sure Astana has a great effect on the profile of the race and attracts spectators. These are definitely good things but what about the amateur team that keyed this race? What about the continental team that might just get enough recognition at the normal level of the race? Yes I am sure there are more than a few cat 1 riders that would think it is pretty cool to to ride with Lance or Levi but they won't be taking home any cash if the pro tour guys race hard. As a guy who generally sucked as a rider I know the fun just disappears at any race there was even 1 cat 2 in our group. They just make the race that much harder. I think it is a good rule and I'd guess I might be in the minority.
UCI discriminates against smaller races
You'd be hard-pressed to find someone who dislikes Armstrong more than me. That said, this decision by the UCI is completely unfair to him, his teammates and the race organizers. They allowed Levi to race Sea Otter and the same sort of thing goes on all the time in Europe without a peep from the UCI. I especially feel bad for the fans. At least to Americans he's by far the biggest name in the sport and a hero to people hit by cancer. Congrats Pat! I never thought someone could make me stick up for Armstrong but you pulled it off! Keep up the good work genius!
You'd be hard-pressed to find someone who dislikes Armstrong more than me. That said, this decision by the UCI is completely unfair to him, his teammates and the race organizers. They allowed Levi to race Sea Otter and the same sort of thing goes on all the time in Europe without a peep from the UCI. I especially feel bad for the fans. At least to Americans he's by far the biggest name in the sport and a hero to people hit by cancer. Congrats Pat! I never thought someone could make me stick up for Armstrong but you pulled it off! Keep up the good work genius!
Armstrong Gila
If that is correct and other Astana leaders have ridden similar races in the USA then for sure it seems to be a very great bias against Armstrong and doing a big discredit to the sporting public.
I am equally a non-Armstrong fan.
A sportsman gets better by competing against the next level up.
If that is correct and other Astana leaders have ridden similar races in the USA then for sure it seems to be a very great bias against Armstrong and doing a big discredit to the sporting public.
I am equally a non-Armstrong fan.
A sportsman gets better by competing against the next level up.
Coppi42 said:
It is about money. A small domestic team does not have a large number of races to get an ROI for its sponsors. No sponsor wants to fund a team that has few results. A Pro Tour team stealing opportunities from small teams at small races is not only incredibly lame, it hurts the smaller teams. Astana slumming at Gila looked to be an exercise in ego stroking for Armstrong and his crew rather than a anything to do with sport.
If Leipheimer was feeling so great a week ago at Sea Otter, he should have been racing with the big boys at Amstel instead of beating up on the kindergartners.
is it about the race, or that LA is not allowed to start ?
so the UCI rules don't please everyone.
They are the rules of cycling, flawed, or not, that is the way it is.
It was Lance's own misfortune to break his collarbone, so he is short of racing, big deal.
The tour of Gila - sponsored by SRAM - (SRAM part owned by LA) and as someone else above stated, while a major protour team could come along and clean up taking the money, media and all, the following year, when LA has taken retirement, where would the race be ?
If the Tour of Gila is to survive, it better learn how to do it quick.
Same with Philly.
Incidentally, how many of you are bleating that the Giro organisers are indulging LA to the exclusion of Simeoni's team, whilst inviting other teams, which are lacking talent at this level?
No ? i thought not
so the UCI rules don't please everyone.
They are the rules of cycling, flawed, or not, that is the way it is.
It was Lance's own misfortune to break his collarbone, so he is short of racing, big deal.
The tour of Gila - sponsored by SRAM - (SRAM part owned by LA) and as someone else above stated, while a major protour team could come along and clean up taking the money, media and all, the following year, when LA has taken retirement, where would the race be ?
If the Tour of Gila is to survive, it better learn how to do it quick.
Same with Philly.
Incidentally, how many of you are bleating that the Giro organisers are indulging LA to the exclusion of Simeoni's team, whilst inviting other teams, which are lacking talent at this level?
No ? i thought not
More of a tiddler than a monster.
If LA hadn't said he might ride, it wouldn't rate a mention.
Punctured tyre calls it.
I think the UCI is screwed up as usual.
As to the arguments above:
1. Who says Lance Levi and Horner would show up and take all the wins or prize money. Horner maybe!!
Lance has entered many races, small Texan whatever, and puts in some attacks whatever and then lets the Pro 1 field guys that go with him take the win.
He said he was going for training.
OTOH, who says Horner shouldnt be able to show up and earn some cash. He has been out with an unjry for weeks.
He is a USA rider, riding in the USA--something the UCI doesnt take into account. THey would not be sandbagging--its a level field--all pro riders. THey are not missing Protour races to clean up this smaller race--that is the reason this rule exists: to prevent the biggest riders in the world showing up at their hometown for the weekend and going out and cleaning up all the local races.
2. SRAM saved the race. Sram expected a return on its investment. THis move is a great way to kill sponsors.
3. Lance increases the profile of any race he enters-TdU, Giro, Tour de France--and the Gila organizaers are crushed over his exclusion.
4. How many times do we get to see the US greatest rider race on home soil?
Case closed
As to the arguments above:
1. Who says Lance Levi and Horner would show up and take all the wins or prize money. Horner maybe!!
Lance has entered many races, small Texan whatever, and puts in some attacks whatever and then lets the Pro 1 field guys that go with him take the win.
He said he was going for training.
OTOH, who says Horner shouldnt be able to show up and earn some cash. He has been out with an unjry for weeks.
He is a USA rider, riding in the USA--something the UCI doesnt take into account. THey would not be sandbagging--its a level field--all pro riders. THey are not missing Protour races to clean up this smaller race--that is the reason this rule exists: to prevent the biggest riders in the world showing up at their hometown for the weekend and going out and cleaning up all the local races.
2. SRAM saved the race. Sram expected a return on its investment. THis move is a great way to kill sponsors.
3. Lance increases the profile of any race he enters-TdU, Giro, Tour de France--and the Gila organizaers are crushed over his exclusion.
4. How many times do we get to see the US greatest rider race on home soil?
Case closed
I posted a thread on here recently about how little impact Lance has had on the US Pro scene. It is at the exact place it was 20 years ago only now, even more threatened due to the economic crisis. Lance might bring bigger crowds, profile etc but not necessarily more investment.
As someone else pointed out, what happens next year, will Lance step in with the necessary finance if the race is still struggling. If Lance has such a massive impact on US Cycling, wouldnt the ideal solution be for him to ride for a domestic US team(Trek-Livestrong) for a year, then all US races would benefit from his profile. Sorry, but I dont really believe Lance has any real interests in the health of cycling in general.
Philly is also struggling and having attended this fantastic race a few years ago, its hard to believe with the crowds it attracts, comparable with anything I have seen in Europe and Lance never raced it during his Tour winning years. I would be sad if the best race on the US circuit was to disappear.
On other points, Tour of Romandie is on at the moment, why aint Lance honing his form against the top guys in that?
Agree with the point that other top US pros have raced in other small US races without hinderance so there is a bit of double standards here.
On the other hands, the rules are there to protect the livelihood of smaller teams and riders. Perhaps, the teams competing in the Gila event should be consulted, if they dont have a problem with Astana competing, then why not.
Twice now, rules have been bent to accomodate Lance so this would have made it 3 for 3 if he had been allowed to compete. Other riders would surely start to ask questions why there are rules at all.
At the end of the day, its another case of the circus that follows Lance wherever he goes, kinda reminds me of Beckham, but with a lot more talent and success mind.
As someone else pointed out, what happens next year, will Lance step in with the necessary finance if the race is still struggling. If Lance has such a massive impact on US Cycling, wouldnt the ideal solution be for him to ride for a domestic US team(Trek-Livestrong) for a year, then all US races would benefit from his profile. Sorry, but I dont really believe Lance has any real interests in the health of cycling in general.
Philly is also struggling and having attended this fantastic race a few years ago, its hard to believe with the crowds it attracts, comparable with anything I have seen in Europe and Lance never raced it during his Tour winning years. I would be sad if the best race on the US circuit was to disappear.
On other points, Tour of Romandie is on at the moment, why aint Lance honing his form against the top guys in that?
Agree with the point that other top US pros have raced in other small US races without hinderance so there is a bit of double standards here.
On the other hands, the rules are there to protect the livelihood of smaller teams and riders. Perhaps, the teams competing in the Gila event should be consulted, if they dont have a problem with Astana competing, then why not.
Twice now, rules have been bent to accomodate Lance so this would have made it 3 for 3 if he had been allowed to compete. Other riders would surely start to ask questions why there are rules at all.
At the end of the day, its another case of the circus that follows Lance wherever he goes, kinda reminds me of Beckham, but with a lot more talent and success mind.
And I'm with steelciocc, with the addition of PuncturedTyre.
I understand the urge to see these domestic races excel (I'm a former resident of Salt Lake City, UT, and watched in horror as the Tour of Utah fail for a year for lack of support), but the rules are in place for a reason.
I won't reiterate the excellent observations posted above. Suffice it to say, there is a huge, exciting community of US racers outside Armstrong and Leipheimer.
Let the domestics shine!
I understand the urge to see these domestic races excel (I'm a former resident of Salt Lake City, UT, and watched in horror as the Tour of Utah fail for a year for lack of support), but the rules are in place for a reason.
I won't reiterate the excellent observations posted above. Suffice it to say, there is a huge, exciting community of US racers outside Armstrong and Leipheimer.
Let the domestics shine!
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