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UCI Pro Tour Selection Rules

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just some guy

just some guy

Apr 9, 2011
3,034
2
0
janraaskalt said:
Please, share those pitfalls with us. This system is not perfect, but no system is. The UCI focuses on certain aspects on purpose, which means if it is a pitfall, it is one by choice.
Click to expand...

For one money buys teams which is not new but the importance of renewed contracts will be very important

and poaching will become the norm -

teams will stack world tour races to get points - smaller races will have problems with sponsorship.

ie It may be more beneficial to send packed team to China people can only race so much so some of the Wednesday races in Belgium with 80 years of history may find it hard to keep sponsors with reduced quality of riders.

Team sponsorship will be harder to create long term partnership - Ie we are world tour this year next not sure we can talk then.

starter for 10.
 
theswordsman

theswordsman

Feb 14, 2010
2,202
0
0
janraaskalt said:
Please, share those pitfalls with us. This system is not perfect, but no system is. The UCI focuses on certain aspects on purpose, which means if it is a pitfall, it is one by choice.
Click to expand...

A few are pointed out under the "is it fair" section.

For me, the big flaw is that teams only learned of the system last week. Did they make copies and send them to each of their riders, so that they have a bit of control over their own futures?

Last year teams worked hard to finish the year in the top seventeen of the UCI rankings so they could get automatic invitations to the Tour de France. No one knew that there would be a super secret method of evaluation and that teams who thought they were sure things at the top level would be turned away and left begging for races.

This is a time of year when teams are looking for riders to recruit for next year. I imagine a lot of them set up spreadsheets last week so they could see just how valuable certain riders will be not to the team, but to their license chances.

I could imagine riders looking at the point possibilities and arguing with teammates over which events they're in. Would a top sprinter ride ATOC if he knew he could do better riding part of the Giro d'Italia and going for stage wins?

Three months of the season were gone before teams got the presentation. Some might have planned their early schedules differently. The big thing is, if this is the important ranking, get rid of the meaningless one on the UCI website and put this one up for the world to see. If CQ & Virtual Director Sportif type games can do it, and keep it up to date, the governing body of the sport should be able to do it.

If anyone from the UCI happens by, it's time for another round of Biological Passport names, please.
 
J

janraaskalt

Jan 3, 2010
1,372
207
10,880
just some guy said:
For one money buys teams which is not new but the importance of renewed contracts will be very important
Click to expand...
Not entirely true, teams are rewarded team points for team results of the previous years. New teams do not have those team points.
just some guy said:
teams will stack world tour races to get points - smaller races will have problems with sponsorship.

ie It may be more beneficial to send packed team to China people can only race so much so some of the Wednesday races in Belgium with 80 years of history may find it hard to keep sponsors with reduced quality of riders.
Click to expand...
The UCI does that on purpose. They want quality pelotons in their top-tier races, e.g. Tour of Beijing as well. Euskaltel does not need to ride E3 Harelbeke to get points.
just some guy said:
Team sponsorship will be harder to create long term partnership - Ie we are world tour this year next not sure we can talk then.
Click to expand...
I have heard tons of people say that promotion+relegation rules should be applied to the World Tour. Here they are and people are still complaining.
 
J

janraaskalt

Jan 3, 2010
1,372
207
10,880
theswordsman said:
For me, the big flaw is that teams only learned of the system last week. Did they make copies and send them to each of their riders, so that they have a bit of control over their own futures?

Last year teams worked hard to finish the year in the top seventeen of the UCI rankings so they could get automatic invitations to the Tour de France. No one knew that there would be a super secret method of evaluation and that teams who thought they were sure things at the top level would be turned away and left begging for races.

This is a time of year when teams are looking for riders to recruit for next year. I imagine a lot of them set up spreadsheets last week so they could see just how valuable certain riders will be not to the team, but to their license chances.

I could imagine riders looking at the point possibilities and arguing with teammates over which events they're in. Would a top sprinter ride ATOC if he knew he could do better riding part of the Giro d'Italia and going for stage wins?

Three months of the season were gone before teams got the presentation. Some might have planned their early schedules differently. The big thing is, if this is the important ranking, get rid of the meaningless one on the UCI website and put this one up for the world to see. If CQ & Virtual Director Sportif type games can do it, and keep it up to date, the governing body of the sport should be able to do it.
Click to expand...
It is not a flaw in the system, but in the implementation of the system. It is also a huge flaw of the DS of the teams. CQ Ranking published this exact same structure including the points scale last June. If a team is still surprised they have been hiding under a rock.
 
Archibald

Archibald

Jun 15, 2009
3,404
17
13,510
theswordsman said:
A few are pointed out under the "is it fair" section.

For me, the big flaw is that teams only learned of the system last week. Did they make copies and send them to each of their riders, so that they have a bit of control over their own futures?

Last year teams worked hard to finish the year in the top seventeen of the UCI rankings so they could get automatic invitations to the Tour de France. No one knew that there would be a super secret method of evaluation and that teams who thought they were sure things at the top level would be turned away and left begging for races.

This is a time of year when teams are looking for riders to recruit for next year. I imagine a lot of them set up spreadsheets last week so they could see just how valuable certain riders will be not to the team, but to their license chances.

I could imagine riders looking at the point possibilities and arguing with teammates over which events they're in. Would a top sprinter ride ATOC if he knew he could do better riding part of the Giro d'Italia and going for stage wins?

Three months of the season were gone before teams got the presentation. Some might have planned their early schedules differently. The big thing is, if this is the important ranking, get rid of the meaningless one on the UCI website and put this one up for the world to see. If CQ & Virtual Director Sportif type games can do it, and keep it up to date, the governing body of the sport should be able to do it.

If anyone from the UCI happens by, it's time for another round of Biological Passport names, please.
Click to expand...

excellent post
 
L

lancaster

Apr 15, 2010
330
0
0
worst thing (not previously mentioned) national championships are equal. Belgian/French/Spanish/Italian championships are harder for pros to win than (for example) the Dutch Antilles.

best thing. tour of cali is disrespected
 
T

The Sheep

Sep 25, 2009
1,942
0
0
lancaster said:
worst thing (not previously mentioned) national championships are equal. Belgian/French/Spanish/Italian championships are harder for pros to win than (for example) the Dutch Antilles.

best thing. tour of cali is disrespected
Click to expand...

I think the Dutch Antilles championship is a lot harder to win than those 4 combined :p
 
Mrs John Murphy

Mrs John Murphy

May 3, 2010
2,662
0
0
just some guy said:
For one money buys teams which is not new but the importance of renewed contracts will be very important

and poaching will become the norm -

teams will stack world tour races to get points - smaller races will have problems with sponsorship.

ie It may be more beneficial to send packed team to China people can only race so much so some of the Wednesday races in Belgium with 80 years of history may find it hard to keep sponsors with reduced quality of riders.

Team sponsorship will be harder to create long term partnership - Ie we are world tour this year next not sure we can talk then.

starter for 10.
Click to expand...

Which explains why Vino is doing all he can to tap up Gilbert.

It explains why Cack, HGH, Sky and Garmin are producing some of the most boring racing ever seen. Sprint for third boys (get those points in the bag)
 
F

Fester

Mar 19, 2010
221
0
9,030
What do riders points have to do with anything? It's like ranking a football team on goals for but not against. People will be looking for defender with "goals" and indeed the defenders would be somewhat obliged not to do their job, but seek points.

Now if you said the top rider from each team in each race and ranked them accordingly, plus included some points for intermediate classifications you might have something that seemed fair.
 
skippy

skippy

May 26, 2009
460
0
0
@Archibald when i put this thread up i was in the Rebellin thread and asked where it should go . At that time i saw no other anywhere so surprised it is getting shunted around a bit !
Question was :
How will this item impact a team employing Rebellin and others and should it be a new thread in Clinic:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...ystem-revealed

So far not seen an answer but then i am a newbie with a poor batting average that is overwhelmed by the seasoned long time experts .
 
ingsve

ingsve

Mar 12, 2009
5,020
810
19,680
skippy said:
@Archibald when i put this thread up i was in the Rebellin thread and asked where it should go . At that time i saw no other anywhere so surprised it is getting shunted around a bit !
Question was :
How will this item impact a team employing Rebellin and others and should it be a new thread in Clinic:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...ystem-revealed

So far not seen an answer but then i am a newbie with a poor batting average that is overwhelmed by the seasoned long time experts .
Click to expand...

I don't see what this has to do with Rebellin. What it means is that teams will want to make sure to have at least 15 riders with decent results so that they can get a good score. Rebellin will possibly have no results at all going into next year and or he might have a few results from this year if some team does pick him up. In general though most teams will have riders that aren't contributing to their overall score.
 
skippy

skippy

May 26, 2009
460
0
0
With Bennati going home how will this effect the Leopard Giro d'Italia lineup and thus their credibility with their sponsors ?

Where or which thread would this become a part ? That is if there is a thread already in existance !
 
ingsve

ingsve

Mar 12, 2009
5,020
810
19,680
skippy said:
With Bennati going home how will this effect the Leopard Giro d'Italia lineup and thus their credibility with their sponsors ?

Where or which thread would this become a part ? That is if there is a thread already in existance !
Click to expand...

A thing like that would probably go in a Giro thread or a Leopardtrek thread. I think both exist.
 
skippy

skippy

May 26, 2009
460
0
0
@ingsve , you were right ! Comment at 18.44 #345 refers to another news item on this story .
Going back to sleep as this is too hard to keep up with .
 
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