Ugh. It's down to 2 bikes, one CF, one steel...

[EatsFats]

So here we go again...
After numerous test rides, I narrowed down my choice to 2 bikes.
One is very nice carbon machine (Focus). Of all the bikes I rode, this was the best for me. Beat some other well-known CF bikes easily. And I really like its no-nonsense design, looks easy to service for many years.
The other is Columbus Spirit frame, and I would say it was 99.9% as good as the Focus at most things. I couldn't believe it on the ride, so I took extra time putting it through its paces.

The only thing I can't tell is what either will feel like on a longish ride (3-5 hours). Practically equal, as is the cost, within $1.

On the side of the Focus, I think the complete bike weight is slightly lighter (but honestly, manufacture quoted weight difference in the frames is ~120g or something like that).
Against the Focus (and yes, I know it's weak, but I do worry about stuff like this), what to do when the ride is over? It's a hunk of plastic that can't be recycled.

I have no allegiance to any particular material nor do I necessarily buy the arguments by the fanbois on either side. The steel is in front of me and not heavy. CF not durable? Really? Want about aircraft? All those composite boats? Steel rusts easily ... not here, I'm in a very wet climate with a 15 year old steel bike that is still okay. Yes, I could get a custom in the steel for nearly the same cost, but honestly, I'm no freak, the standard frames will fit me near perfectly. Steel is repairable? Really easily with 0.38mm tubing? Hmm.. I also know CF can be repaired (my boss recently got his bike done, Calfee I believe).

It's down to looks unless someone can shed some other insights on the matter!

 

[LugHugger]

An interesting dilemma! Firstly, cards on the table, I also ride a Columbus Spirit frame. Secondly, I have never ridden a Focus bike. I can tell you that after 3-5 hour rides, Spirit is way more comfortable to ride than my previous frameset which was aluminium with full carbon forks. Not really relevant to your predicament but my $.02 worth.


A couple of things to consider:
1. Not all carbon is equal. Aeorspace CF and bike frame CF are generally not the same specification.
2. Steel is repairable even with the .38mm thick tubes. The damaged tube is cut out and replaced. The cost of a Spirit down or top tube is about £30/$50. Plus labour.
3. Calfee will repair their frames. I'm not so sure that Calfee can repair Focus frames or indeed if even Focus can.

Good luck and enjoy whichever choice you make

 

[42x16ss]

Hmmm. I think that the fact you wanted to take the Spirit out further and longer is the most telling thing here. What will you be doing with the bike?

If it's racing, then I'd lean towards the CF Focus simply because it will have that little bit more "snap" when you accelerate while IMO a well made and fitted steel bike is better for touring and rec riding.

As far as repairablility goes, there are more and more reputable CF repairers out there and Focus are a growing brand, so their warranty should be decent.

I guess the most important question is this: which bike left the bigger smile on your face after riding it?

 

[The Gnome]

You must have some idea I think of which ride you preferred...which felt abit better...go with that one...personally, I like steel but I no longer race...as for worrying about rusting via steel, if you get the spirit frame be sure to get that jp weigle frame saver stuff...douse it with that and you will be good to go...

 

[Bustedknuckle]

So here we go again...
After numerous test rides, I narrowed down my choice to 2 bikes.
One is very nice carbon machine (Focus). Of all the bikes I rode, this was the best for me. Beat some other well-known CF bikes easily. And I really like its no-nonsense design, looks easy to service for many years.
The other is Columbus Spirit frame, and I would say it was 99.9% as good as the Focus at most things. I couldn't believe it on the ride, so I took extra time putting it through its paces.

The only thing I can't tell is what either will feel like on a longish ride (3-5 hours). Practically equal, as is the cost, within $1.

On the side of the Focus, I think the complete bike weight is slightly lighter (but honestly, manufacture quoted weight difference in the frames is ~120g or something like that).
Against the Focus (and yes, I know it's weak, but I do worry about stuff like this), what to do when the ride is over? It's a hunk of plastic that can't be recycled.

I have no allegiance to any particular material nor do I necessarily buy the arguments by the fanbois on either side. The steel is in front of me and not heavy. CF not durable? Really? Want about aircraft? All those composite boats? Steel rusts easily ... not here, I'm in a very wet climate with a 15 year old steel bike that is still okay. Yes, I could get a custom in the steel for nearly the same cost, but honestly, I'm no freak, the standard frames will fit me near perfectly. Steel is repairable? Really easily with 0.38mm tubing? Hmm.. I also know CF can be repaired (my boss recently got his bike done, Calfee I believe).

It's down to looks unless someone can shed some other insights on the matter!

Get the steel frame, don't look back. Focus does not have a good rep as a longterm frame...if ya get the Focus, make sure of the warranty.

 

[Michael Brown]

1) Which one appeals to you best on an aesthetic level? If looks matter, think about that as a consideration.

2) When are you going to be buying your next bike? More than 5 years? Get steel. I'm not saying the CF won't last that long - it probably will last far longer than you need. But the steel, properly cared for, will easily outlast *you* ;-)

I have a one carbon frame and 2 aluminum...I love 'em all (esp. the carbon...), but my next bike will be steel or titanium.

I think (based upon your concerns) you should get steel. The weight is largely inconsequential - plenty of solutions to that problem (lighter parts, lighter body)...Plus, if you look at the price (assuming the components are identical), you are getting a higher quality steel frame and a lesser quality carbon frame.

Good luck.

 

[Hairy Wheels]

If you're given a bike to race on, it's best if it's carbon.

If you're buying a bike to race on, and you can replace it fairly often, it's best if it's carbon. (Caveat...if you're a lower cat racer where there are lots of crashes...best avoid carbon!)

If you're buying a bike that you want to have long-term and actually enjoy the ride of, it's best if it's steel.

A friend had to retire his carbon bike after 4 years...it's gone 'dead' feeling...he's replacing with a Spirit frame.

 

[erader]

if i wanted a forever bike it would be titanium. in fact the only bike i own now is titanium. i've owned two ti bikes, CF bikes, as well as steel and aluminum.

the most comfortable bike i've owned was a kestrel, but that was before they went to china.

sounds like you want the steel bike to me. i'd say go for it.

erader

 

[erader]

If you're given a bike to race on, it's best if it's carbon.

If you're buying a bike to race on, and you can replace it fairly often, it's best if it's carbon. (Caveat...if you're a lower cat racer where there are lots of crashes...best avoid carbon!)

If you're buying a bike that you want to have long-term and actually enjoy the ride of, it's best if it's steel.

A friend had to retire his carbon bike after 4 years...it's gone 'dead' feeling...he's replacing with a Spirit frame.

they tend to do that when we get the itch to upgrade .

erader

 

[avanti]

............
The other is Columbus Spirit frame,
............

Who made the steel frame?
I'm looking for a steel frame bike and plan to ride the new Felt F-4130 as soon as it is available.
However I would want a frame with lugs (not welded and definitetly not fillet brazed)

 

[LugHugger]

Who made the steel frame?
I'm looking for a steel frame bike and plan to ride the new Felt F-4130 as soon as it is available.
However I would want a frame with lugs (not welded and definitetly not fillet brazed)

What's wrong with fillet brazed?????

 

[kuoirad]

Who made the steel frame?
I'm looking for a steel frame bike and plan to ride the new Felt F-4130 as soon as it is available.
However I would want a frame with lugs (not welded and definitetly not fillet brazed)

You won't want to bother with that Felt, then. It didn't look like it was a lugged frame...

 

[avanti]

What's wrong with fillet brazed?????

I've seen two frames break at the fillet during road races and one during a track race. Fortunately no major injury to the riders.

 

[EatsFats]

I'm not a racer, nor do I have unlimited funds or a team mechanic handy. So yes, I expect the bike to last quite a few years and be "easy" to service. No weird parts like "cut-your-own" carbon seatposts.

I do have an aluminum bike with CF forks. Nothing wrong with that one, though it is getting on 10 years old. Took me up Mt. Hamilton (yes, that's right, that stage in the Tour of California this year). The heat and the mountain were more of an impediment than the bike.

I took the steel bike out for an extra spin because I have typically been led to believe that steel was noodly and heavy. This was not. It was every bit the equal of the CF frame (at least on the short ride). I tried everything to wring out the weakness from it. Maybe it was just a good day.
Prior to the Focus, I had tried a Cervelo and a Pinarello. Not that in love with the models I tried.

Focus seems to have been around a while, so I dunno. If they have such a bad rep, how do they survive? Regardless, CF in general, I suppose it's possible to make bad frames easily enough, but all this is so far hearsay to me. Some of my co-workers ride CF, I haven't heard about them complaining that their old bike has become less stiff. I've got CF rackets, I don't see them softening up....
On the other hand, I do see TONS of good, old steel bikes. But no old CF ones ... hmmm....

I like a new steel frame too. Just looks better than my old lugged one. But the non-steel people tell me it'll beat me up on a long ride vs. the carbon.

If you can blow the money, Pegoretti makes lugged frames I believe. If you're not hung up on Columbus, Cramerotti has plenty of lugged steel frames from Dedacciai tubing and is a bit more affordable than a Pegoretti. As far as I know, they are still all hand-made in Italy.
http://www.cramerotti.com/2010/
Never mind their old web site. Their brick 'n mortar store is alive and well.
You can also get a lugged DeRosa steel Neo Primato ... is there anything more classic than that? (Maybe the Colnago Master...)

Okay, so we're drifting aside now, but don't knock those old frames. I just weighed my old Columbus SL bike. It's got older, heavy parts on it, water bottle, all kitted out ready to ride with pump, pedals and all and it comes out to 9.9kg (~21.8 lbs). That's not exactly torture to ride with.

 

[LugHugger]

I've seen two frames break at the fillet during road races and one during a track race. Fortunately no major injury to the riders.

OK. But are you saying that you've never seen or heard of carbon/aluminium, ti or TIG steel tubing cracking at the weld/join? Seems like a fairly arbitrary reason for discounting fillet brazing. My fillet brazed frame has covered approaching 20,000 miles over very rough roads and gravel with no sign of failure at the braze. Frames fail, irrespective of material or construction.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I've seen two frames break at the fillet during road races and one during a track race. Fortunately no major injury to the riders.

That's the builder, not the method altho fillet brazed for track is not a good idea. Beefy, tig welded, aluminum/steel welded for track, IMHO.