unconventional strategies

[sashimono]

What is the strangest strategy you've seen in a stage race?

I know it would never happen, but I would love to see a team go up to set the pace and then bang, just take off in a sprint. They would then drop guys in a controlled way to fend off chasers leaving maybe five guys to ride the rest of the race time-trial fashion with the GC guy protected and fresh for the next day with 30 min on everybody. Would that be cool or what?

 

[MrContador]

Strangest strategy? Probably Telekom in the 2005 Tour. Vinokourov attacks at the bottom of Plateau de Bonascre, Klöden chases him down working for Ullrich, and as soon as the road starts to rise Ullrich is dropped. Plain and stupid tacticery.

 

[thehog]

What is the strangest strategy you've seen in a stage race?

I know it would never happen, but I would love to see a team go up to set the pace and then bang, just take off in a sprint. They would then drop guys in a controlled way to fend off chasers leaving maybe five guys to ride the rest of the race time-trial fashion with the GC guy protected and fresh for the next day with 30 min on everybody. Would that be cool or what?

Although EPO fuelled Heres's last win at the Vuetla used the old 1-2 on Sastre. Think even Menchov got caught up in it. Basically they sent 4 Liberty guys up the road at km 30. They time trialled their way to a 4 minute lead. They then soft peddled until Heres attacked on the final climb and joined his team-mates for the final 40km flat into the finish. They drafted him all the way to a 4 minute time gain over Sastre. It looked great but we now know why.

 

[HL2037]

What is the strangest strategy you've seen in a stage race?

I know it would never happen, but I would love to see a team go up to set the pace and then bang, just take off in a sprint. They would then drop guys in a controlled way to fend off chasers leaving maybe five guys to ride the rest of the race time-trial fashion with the GC guy protected and fresh for the next day with 30 min on everybody. Would that be cool or what?

That's sort of what columbia attempted in this years tdf, I think it was stage 3 or 4. They had chosen a place where the road turned and sidewind set in.

In 2008 tdf, saxo did a cool thing too: On an etape with two seperate mountains they put riders out front in a breakaway, to wait for the peloton on the second mountain and help the leaders.

 

[pedaling squares]

What is the strangest strategy you've seen in a stage race?

I know it would never happen, but I would love to see a team go up to set the pace and then bang, just take off in a sprint. They would then drop guys in a controlled way to fend off chasers leaving maybe five guys to ride the rest of the race time-trial fashion with the GC guy protected and fresh for the next day with 30 min on everybody. Would that be cool or what?

Yes, that would be cool. Suicidal, but cool. The GC guy may be fresh the next day (although I doubt it) but he would have no fresh teammates left to protect him. The other teams react to attacks and organize pretty quickly, with or without radios, so even if it was a short enough stage that this worked I can't see the 30 min advantage you write about. Seems to me the best you could hope for was a narrow stage victory and utterly dead legs the next day. But I guess that's why you called it strange strategy. Strangest strategy I've seen in recent years is Astana's messing about with their own top GC man in the 2009 Tour. That could easily have led to a Saxo victory. Strange tactics for a "genius" DS to adopt/approve.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I have an unconventional strategy from the 06 Tour. Remember Floyd's 100+ km solo attack? I was thinking this guy is superhuman, but he was just doped.

Doping or not, Solo breakaways of that distance are just crazy.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Although EPO fuelled Heres's last win at the Vuetla used the old 1-2 on Sastre. Think even Menchov got caught up in it. Basically they sent 4 Liberty guys up the road at km 30. They time trialled their way to a 4 minute lead. They then soft peddled until Heres attacked on the final climb and joined his team-mates for the final 40km flat into the finish. They drafted him all the way to a 4 minute time gain over Sastre. It looked great but we now know why.

Menchov was in the lead at that time

General classification after stage 14

1 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 56.53.00
2 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 0.47
3 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 1.50


General classification after stage 15

1 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 61.47.40
2 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 4.30
3 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 4.50



That day was awesome. I was rooting for Rabo at first, but the way Heras took it all was great. Too bad they stripped him of the win.

Looking into it, Menchov had a horrible team for a GC.

Rabobank

171 Denis Menchov (Rus)
172 Jan Boven (Ned)
173 Bram De Groot (Ned)
174 Mathew Hayman (Aus)
175 Pedro Horrillo Munoz (Spa)
176 Alexandr Kolobnev (Rus)
177 Niels Scheuneman (Ned)
178 Jukka Vastaranta (Fin)
179 Thorwald Veneberg (Ned)

In that stage Vastaranta quit and Menchov was down to 4 helpers. He never really complained and still got 2nd. Great character, that will win you a GT.

 

[luckyboy]

Giro d'Italia 2009, Stage 15, Cervelo Test Team

 

[thehog]

Good stats. Thank you. Ps - from memory Menchov & Sastre had a verbal spat on the road?

I also remember the year Il Falco won the Giro in 05(?) that Simonei & DiLuca ganged up on him in attempt to gain back 3+ minutes. It was on the dirt tracks of the Col della Fiestrea(?)... Classic stage. They attacked with 100km to go and just missed out in snatching the Giro. DiLuca got cramps with 2km to go and Rijunio stole the stage by sitting on the entire way.

Menchov was in the lead at that time

General classification after stage 14

1 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 56.53.00
2 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 0.47
3 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 1.50


General classification after stage 15

1 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) Liberty Seguros-Würth Team 61.47.40
2 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 4.30
3 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 4.50



That day was awesome. I was rooting for Rabo at first, but the way Heras took it all was great. Too bad they stripped him of the win.

Looking into it, Menchov had a horrible team for a GC.

Rabobank

171 Denis Menchov (Rus)
172 Jan Boven (Ned)
173 Bram De Groot (Ned)
174 Mathew Hayman (Aus)
175 Pedro Horrillo Munoz (Spa)
176 Alexandr Kolobnev (Rus)
177 Niels Scheuneman (Ned)
178 Jukka Vastaranta (Fin)
179 Thorwald Veneberg (Ned)

In that stage Vastaranta quit and Menchov was down to 4 helpers. He never really complained and still got 2nd. Great character, that will win you a GT.

 

[Frosty]

Didnt T-mobile once have a really strong team but wasted it by doing loads of work on the front when they needed to so that when the important times came they were all over the place? I think Olaf Ludwig got the sack because of it? Could have been 2006?

 

[Martin318is]

I seem to recall an attempt at this type of thing in the Tour dF. Possibly '99?

The image I have in my head is an overhead helicopter shot with a train of Casino (a guess here - it could have been Cofidis...) riders in the peleton on the left of the bunch. The road goes very slightly up on a small roller and all 4 riders jump into a really hard sprint train.

I think they were trying to get away and create a lead out for an intermediate sprint that was about 10km up the road...

They ripped themselves out of the front of the bunch, quickly got about 50m clear and then surprise surprise, the bunch just rolled over the top of them again a few minutes later. they were nowhere when the sprint happened

 

[skidmark]

Giro d'Italia 2009, Stage 15, Cervelo Test Team

Definitely. That was the first (and only) thing I thought of. It still makes me shake my head.

One of my favorite stories is about how Eddy Merckx lost a bunch of time to Luis Ocana in I think the '72 Tour and attempted to make it up the very next day... he was like 9 minutes down, and attacked on the downhill into a valley with 280km left to go in a 300km stage. His teammates came with him, but he lost a couple because the heat of the road melted the glue on their tires and they got flats. Regardless, a couple of his teammates (but mostly him) pulled the break for 280km while Ocana's team pulled madly in the peloton. The race finished 45 minutes before the earliest estimate so there weren't even TV cameras set up at the end of the stage. Merckx got 2 minutes back. (then the next mountain stage he attacked on a downhill, Ocana followed him, Merckx had a mechanical and crashed, Ocana went down with him, then got hit by Joop Zoetemelk, putting him in a coma and out of the Tour. Needless to say, Eddy won that year).

 

[ak-zaaf]

Good stats. Thank you. Ps - from memory Menchov & Sastre had a verbal spat on the road?

I also remember the year Il Falco won the Giro in 05(?) that Simonei & DiLuca ganged up on him in attempt to gain back 3+ minutes. It was on the dirt tracks of the Col della Fiestrea(?)... Classic stage. They attacked with 100km to go and just missed out in snatching the Giro. DiLuca got cramps with 2km to go and Rijunio stole the stage by sitting on the entire way.

Yep, the stage to Sestriere. Halfway on the Finestre Savoldelli was already 2 minutes down and the Giro would go to Di Luca, Simoni or Rujano. With 15km to go Di Luca cramped, with 4km to go Simoni cramped. Rujano was just the smartest that day. Savoldelli started with a 2 minute lead and had 28 seconds left over Simoni at the lin,e the day before Milano. Great race that year.

 

[thehog]

Yep, the stage to Sestriere. Halfway on the Finestre Savoldelli was already 2 minutes down and the Giro would go to Di Luca, Simoni or Rujano. With 15km to go Di Luca cramped, with 4km to go Simoni cramped. Rujano was just the smartest that day. Savoldelli started with a 2 minute lead and had 28 seconds left over Simoni at the line the day before Milano. Great race that year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOD5ouvWxVk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-VrcNqQ9ak

Right you are. Best stage of cycling I've seen in any Grand Tour anywhere in the world. Loved it.