US men's XC results....

[papisimo98]

After reading the results from the last World Cup race, my mind couldn't help but to wonder as to why the US has not produced a serious male XC racer in many years.
Todd Wells had a great year, but he ended up 19th or so over all and his best result was just inside the top 10 if the memory serves me correctly.
Who was the last U.S. male to podium in a EUROPEAN World Cup? JHK's 5th place at Ft. Williams 4-5 years ago?!
Why is this? Courses? Training?
Canada seems to have no shortage of badasses.
Theories? I'd love to hear them.
Foot note:
I have seen that the young Ettinger seems to be very close in the U-23.
Sam Schultz has shown some potential with his 15th.
I am predicting a beatdown for the US men for the upcoming World Championships.

 

[Rip:30]

Wells and Craig--top tens since then, but yeah, no podiums since JHK I think.

Reason: it's really hard, fin WCs are pandemonium. There's not much of olympic XC scene in the US anymore. The current crop JHK, TW, AC, all came up as juniors in the 90s when it was completely different. It's desolate out there now, if you're a talented young US cyclist who wants a job, you generally go road. Contrast that with how racing is in Switzerland--with big races every weekend within driving distance and you see why they produce so many top dogs.

 

[papisimo98]

Kulhavy had an amazing season, props to him. The whole top 10 seemed well deserving and no surprises. Kind of nice.
Wells did very well, congrats, his time was very competitive. Quite a season for him as well.

 

[Black-Balled]

I know one of the faster east coast MTB pros and I can tell you that he is not $upported by his sponsors in the same way the Euro guys are.

And he doesn't live with his Mom either. He has to pay rent (shudder).

 

[DirtyWorks]

Who was the last U.S. male to podium in a EUROPEAN World Cup? JHK's 5th place at Ft. Williams 4-5 years ago?!
Why is this? Courses? Training?
Canada seems to have no shortage of badasses.
Theories? I'd love to hear them.

Blame USA Cycling. They've earned it. Not at the development level though. Their failure is at the executive level. It's been this way since they took over NORBA.

Canada's federation is focused on encouraging broad participation in a relatively safe development environment. That is opposite USA Cycling.

Canada's Federation mission/goals page http://www.canadian-cycling.com/cca/about/about_cycling.shtml actually discuss growing the sport as a key tactic to developing great cyclists. Why? It works!

USA Cycling: http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=3909

If the differences don't leap out, then I'm happy to walk through them.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I agree that USA Cycling doesn't do a thing for MTB, but the lack of sponsorship interest is to blame as well. When I say "interest", I mean that it's both not there, and the sponsors that are there don't take very good care of their athletes anyway. In my experience with it, many US pros are forced to cover their traveling expenses for racing. Sponsors might provide them with equipment and some money to offset racing cost (entry fees), but with so much traveling involved with racing, it becomes prohibitively expensive. Basically, they race as much as they can afford, but they can never exceed a certain point unless they are fortunate enough to get a big time sponsor or team that actually takes care of them. Seems like a bunch of promising riders go unnoticed and therefore underdeveloped. When you consider USA cycling's approach and the lack of sponsorship interest, it's no wonder the US only has three riders. Unfortunately, I don't see many riders that can compete internationally once those three call it quits. Nobody really stands out like Craig, Wells or JHK did.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I agree that USA Cycling doesn't do a thing for MTB, but the lack of sponsorship interest is to blame as well.

I would argue that the lack of sponsorship is because USA Cycling is not building a participation base. When NORBA ran the federation, there was a very large participation population of weekend warriors yet far fewer total number of riders than today. What got the businesses to spend advertising dollars in pro mountain biking way back when was the huge turnout at NORBA sanctioned events. USAC is driving customers away with their boring UCI compliant events.

This is happening at the executive level inside USAC. The people much further down the chain working in development don't have any responsibility for the lack of participation.

I'm sure there's good mountain bike talent out there. It's just that USAC has no interest in developing off-road talent.

Definitely a chicken->egg type of problem with lots of potentially right answers.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I would argue that the lack of sponsorship is because USA Cycling is not building a participation base.

I wouldn't dispute that. I was speaking only from my experience racing and involvement with teams of both amateurs and pros. Both were getting the short end of the stick from team sponsors. It's actually the reason I stopped racing seriously. Even with some sponsors, I just couldn't afford it anymore. I admit I didn't start racing seriously until after USAC took over NORBA, so I didn't really see the effects. It was business as usual.

One can definitely lead to another, but eventually there becomes two distinct problems. That's what happened here.

 

[BroDeal]

After reading the results from the last World Cup race, my mind couldn't help but to wonder as to why the US has not produced a serious male XC racer in many years.

Wrong drugs. Weed is not a PED.

In my highly biased--as always--view, it is because mountain biking now caters to the X Games crowd. It has become a circus that does not appeal much to the aerobic fitness type. To be any good at XC, you have to train on the road anyway. If you are any good there then why not make that your focus? Do you think Tommy D. would be making the same coin he is now if he had stayed with mountain biking?

 

[bc_hills]

Wrong drugs. Weed is not a PED.

In my highly biased--as always--view, it is because mountain biking now caters to the X Games crowd. It has become a circus that does not appeal much to the aerobic fitness type. To be any good at XC, you have to train on the road anyway. If you are any good there then why not make that your focus? Do you think Tommy D. would be making the same coin he is now if he had stayed with mountain biking?

XC racing doesn't appeal to the x games crowd either (although the x games crowd underestimates how skilled those pro xc riders are, but that's another conversation), so I don't think that has much to do with it.

I kinda see the dh/freeride side of mtbing to remain a little fringe while xc singletrack style riding is the real breadwinner for the industry. Am I wrong on that? Whenever I ride new trails sanctioned by IMBA type standards those trials are totally sanitized and made as user friendly as possible (i.e. fast switchback berms instead of steep and rooty/rocky). It seems to me that the aerobic xc side of mtbing is king. Anyway, it's all spandex and heart rate monitors on the singletrack and beer and bongs on the shuttle runs. just kidding.

Does anyone know how salaries compare between pro mtb'rs and pro roadies? I'd guess that BroDeal is right and there's way more incentive to be a pro roadie than a pro mtb'r.

 

[BroDeal]

XC racing doesn't appeal to the x games crowd either (although the x games crowd underestimates how skilled those pro xc riders are, but that's another conversation), so I don't think that has much to do with it.

I kinda see the dh/freeride side of mtbing to remain a little fringe while xc singletrack style riding is the real breadwinner for the industry. Am I wrong on that? Whenever I ride new trails sanctioned by IMBA type standards those trials are totally sanitized and made as user friendly as possible (i.e. fast switchback berms instead of steep and rooty/rocky). It seems to me that the aerobic xc side of mtbing is king. Anyway, it's all spandex and heart rate monitors on the singletrack and beer and bongs on the shuttle runs. just kidding.

Does anyone know how salaries compare between pro mtb'rs and pro roadies? I'd guess that BroDeal is right and there's way more incentive to be a pro roadie than a pro mtb'r.

I was not very clear. What I meant by mountain biking caters to the X Games crowd was mountain bike racing events cater to the X Games crowd. For recreational riding I am sure that most riding is done on easy, overly buffed trails.

 

[papisimo98]

Some good theories discussed in here.
Seems that USA cycling/UCI are the big culprits in the matter.
It appears that in the US, mountain bike course are being shortened and flattened to be more like World Cup races. Why are they catering to maybe 1% of the racers? Very few are going to the pro level, why make them ride these boring courses.
Combine this with rampant sandbagging, drugs, low pay, no wonder US mtn bikers are riding cross and a road season too.
Did I miss something?

 

[BroDeal]

Combine this with rampant sandbagging...

That has always sucked, and I think it discourages new would be racers.

Perhaps the rise of cross in the U.S. will create racers who are competitive at MTB XC.

 

[DirtyWorks]

It appears that in the US, mountain bike course are being shortened and flattened to be more like World Cup races. Why are they catering to maybe 1% of the racers? Very few are going to the pro level, why make them ride these boring courses.

The UCI has a vision of what mountain bike racing will be and USAC enacts/enforces those policies. It doesn't matter that fewer Americans want to ride their kind of made for television courses.

Add to that USAC's wierd obsession with running Nationals at altitude and the dwindling number of qualifiers for Nationals because the organizer can't afford the fees for lack of participation and you've got a federation strangling the sport. Except, according to their annual report, it's all good!

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

rampant sandbagging

That has always sucked, and I think it discourages new would be racers.

Agreed, and it seems more prevalent in mountain bike than road racing. I raced Cat 5 road early in the season as a tune-up for mountain bike racing and never felt that guys were sandbagging, at least not as blatantly as in mountain bike racing.

 

[simo1733]

After reading the results from the last World Cup race, my mind couldn't help but to wonder as to why the US has not produced a serious male XC racer in many years.
Todd Wells had a great year, but he ended up 19th or so over all and his best result was just inside the top 10 if the memory serves me correctly.
Who was the last U.S. male to podium in a EUROPEAN World Cup? JHK's 5th place at Ft. Williams 4-5 years ago?!
Why is this? Courses? Training?
Canada seems to have no shortage of badasses.
Theories? I'd love to hear them.
Foot note:
I have seen that the young Ettinger seems to be very close in the U-23.
Sam Schultz has shown some potential with his 15th.
I am predicting a beatdown for the US men for the upcoming World Championships.

No theories but GB is the same.They have had success in just about all elements of the sport except men's X country.

 

[9000ft]

It's because Americans have this thing with overly large wheels.

 

[papisimo98]

tell

that to kulhavy....