Vacansoleil tour team

[Barrus]

In an interview today Daan Luijkx has stated that he wants guarantees, or better yet a renewed contract, of Westra and Hoogerland prior to the tour de france. Although he has stated that it is not necessary for them to prolong their contracts with Vacansoleil, but that he'd rather go to the tour with riders that are under contract to at least 2013 and that riders that have contract until 2013 will be preferred over other riders.

What is your opinion of this?

My own opinion is that this is a good manner to create a consistent line and to ensure that you can built upon what these riders show. However it could also be a ploy to ensure that if a rider leaves after a particularly good tour, that Vacansoleil gets a very high pay-off

 

[ingsve]

It sounds like they want to make sure that any points gained will get counted for them and not some other team for next year. We all know they have worked very focused to get PT status and I'm sure they will do anything in their power not to get dumped back down to Pro Continental.

 

[auscyclefan94]

IF they get a ride at the tour, I would give guys like Borut Bozic, Hoogerland, Westra and marcato to have free reign to have a go at stages that suit their characteristics. I don't know enough about vacansoleil to select a team. I still might later down the track though.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

hope poels go, although I'd like to see him tackle some of those giro stages.

 

[will10]

In an interview today Daan Luijkx has stated that he wants guarantees, or better yet a renewed contract, of Westra and Hoogerland prior to the tour de france. Although he has stated that it is not necessary for them to prolong their contracts with Vacansoleil, but that he'd rather go to the tour with riders that are under contract to at least 2013 and that riders that have contract until 2013 will be preferred over other riders.

What is your opinion of this?

My own opinion is that this is a good manner to create a consistent line and to ensure that you can built upon what these riders show. However it could also be a ploy to ensure that if a rider leaves after a particularly good tour, that Vacansoleil gets a very high pay-off

With the rigid points system in place now we will see more and more teams going down this road, especially for the Vuelta when a lot of riders are already sorted for next season - why should they ride and get points for rivals in next season's PT team standings

 

[theyoungest]

hope poels go, although I'd like to see him tackle some of those giro stages.

The team management already mentioned Poels as a near-certainty to go to the Tour.

 

[hrotha]

I think it's petty and immoral to sideline riders depending on whether or not they're willing to sign a new contract with you. Don't forget it's a job. Luijkx is basically admitting he'd use the selections as a way to coerce his workers, so I imagine they might even have a case at a labour court.

 

[taiwan]

I think it's petty and immoral to sideline riders depending on whether or not they're willing to sign a new contract with you. Don't forget it's a job. Luijkx is basically admitting he'd use the selections as a way to coerce his workers, so I imagine they might even have a case at a labour court.

Agree with this, pretty much.

 

[TRDean]

I think it's petty and immoral to sideline riders depending on whether or not they're willing to sign a new contract with you. Don't forget it's a job. Luijkx is basically admitting he'd use the selections as a way to coerce his workers, so I imagine they might even have a case at a labour court.

Exactly, this tactic is rather pathetic!

 

[Francois the Postman]

And the stupid and utterly predictable fall-out of assigning all the UCI points gained to a rider, not the team, just keep rolling on.

Yeah, it sucks for the riders, as it is bribery as subtle as a sledgehammer, but from a more marginal team management's perspective, those points are gold dust.

Any rider that gets points will have had the team investing in him heavily, on and off the road. Why create some goose ready for plucking? One rider that holds all your team's points just before their contract expires, when you can't even get some transfer fee so you can recoup those points by contracting another rider from another team?

This is exactly what I felt would happen when the point system was unveiled, and I can't believe the powers that be didn't see it coming.

No, I take that back. With this power that is, I can actually believe it.

 

[Francois the Postman]

I think it's petty and immoral to sideline riders depending on whether or not they're willing to sign a new contract with you. Don't forget it's a job. Luijkx is basically admitting he'd use the selections as a way to coerce his workers, so I imagine they might even have a case at a labour court.

As long as they are being paid, and they were not guaranteed TdF entry as a condition for signing, no employer is breaching anything by not using the services they are paying for.

You might think he sucks. I think you are misappropriating blame. Frankly, all Luijkx is admitting is that the point system is kinda coercing him into coercing the rider. And being very frank about it.

 

[TRDean]

As long as they are being paid, and they were not guaranteed TdF entry as a condition for signing, no employer is breaching anything by not using the services they are paying for.

You might think he sucks. I think you are misappropriating blame. Frankly, all Luijkx is admitting is that the point system is kinda coercing him into coercing the rider. And being very frank about it.

I disagree...I think he is using the system as a means/excuse to coerce the riders. Luijkx is being frank about it...but it is still wrong.

 

[ergmonkey]

The UCI points system might have a little bit to do with it, but I think this mostly looks like a hardball negotiating tactic to keep salaries low.

Vacansoleil is trying to force riders to agree to a salary before they have an opportunity to shine on the sport's biggest (by FAR) media stage. If the rider wants to play hardball back, he must accept the fact that he'll miss the Tour and then hope a new team signs him for a good sum despite the relatively low-profile racing year the rider is certain to have.

 

[kurtinsc]

In an interview today Daan Luijkx has stated that he wants guarantees, or better yet a renewed contract, of Westra and Hoogerland prior to the tour de france. Although he has stated that it is not necessary for them to prolong their contracts with Vacansoleil, but that he'd rather go to the tour with riders that are under contract to at least 2013 and that riders that have contract until 2013 will be preferred over other riders.

What is your opinion of this?

My own opinion is that this is a good manner to create a consistent line and to ensure that you can built upon what these riders show. However it could also be a ploy to ensure that if a rider leaves after a particularly good tour, that Vacansoleil gets a very high pay-off

So... after his team bought their way into the PT by signing riders with lots of points from other teams, he wants to prevent others from doing that with his riders.

While it makes sense, it's kind of hypocritical.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I disagree...I think he is using the system as a means/excuse to coerce the riders. Luijkx is being frank about it...but it is still wrong.

He's rewarding loyalty. I'd be pretty ****ed off if I signed a new deal and was passed over for a guy everyone on the team knows wants to leave.

It's basically standard practice in plenty of industries already. Most time delayed bank bonuses are now tied to staying with the firm - leave early and lose your subordinated debt.

 

[hrotha]

As long as they are being paid, and they were not guaranteed TdF entry as a condition for signing, no employer is breaching anything by not using the services they are paying for.

Except that he tacitly admitted he would take those riders to the Tour in any other circumstances. It could be construed as mobbing or workplace bullying, as they would be getting paid but not allowed to do their job in a normal manner.

 

[halamala]

Vacansoleil, confirmed riders @ Tour 2011 : Matteo Carrara, Stijn Devolder, Johnny Hoogerland, Wout Poels, Lieuwe Westra.

 

[Barrus]

Vacansoleil, confirmed riders @ Tour 2011 : Matteo Carrara, Stijn Devolder, Johnny Hoogerland, Wout Poels, Lieuwe Westra.

Where did you find this?

 

[theyoungest]

So... after his team bought their way into the PT by signing riders with lots of points from other teams, he wants to prevent others from doing that with his riders.

While it makes sense, it's kind of hypocritical.

I read this a lot (even in "objective" Cyclingnews articles) but is it true? Mosquera's points weren't counted, and I don't think Ricco's points made the difference. I think he is (was) only the 6th or 7th Vacans rider, in terms of points.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

As long as they are being paid, and they were not guaranteed TdF entry as a condition for signing, no employer is breaching anything by not using the services they are paying for.

You might think he sucks. I think you are misappropriating blame. Frankly, all Luijkx is admitting is that the point system is kinda coercing him into coercing the rider. And being very frank about it.

This. Luijkx is taking measures to ensure stability in a flawed system.

@barrus i remember readings something about confirmed riders a little go, not sure where tho. I'd be surprised if feillu didn't go tho.

 

[Jancouver]

I think it's petty and immoral to sideline riders depending on whether or not they're willing to sign a new contract with you. Don't forget it's a job. Luijkx is basically admitting he'd use the selections as a way to coerce his workers, so I imagine they might even have a case at a labour court.

This is very common in soccer. If they player refuse to sign new contract and has just a few months left (sometimes even a year) the team will send him to play and train with the B team.

 

[Lanark]

The UCI points system might have a little bit to do with it, but I think this mostly looks like a hardball negotiating tactic to keep salaries low.

Vacansoleil is trying to force riders to agree to a salary before they have an opportunity to shine on the sport's biggest (by FAR) media stage. If the rider wants to play hardball back, he must accept the fact that he'll miss the Tour and then hope a new team signs him for a good sum despite the relatively low-profile racing year the rider is certain to have.

Yep, this tactic is older than the sun. Maarten Ducrot mentioned his own experience in the past (late 80's), his DS Jan Raas wanted him to sign a new contract before the start of the Tour, Ducrot said 'I'd rather sign it after I've had a good Tour', whereupon Raas said 'fine, but in that case you don't ride the Tour'.

The Tour is by far the biggest event in the sport, so it's a great opportunity for a rider to increase his market value. Of course, for the teams it's in their best interest to sign riders before the Tour. This has always been the case, and will always be the case. Rider values have nothing to do with it.

In fact, it seems higly unlikely that rider values would have much to do with this. It's almost impossible for a rider like Hoogerland or Westra to score a lot of points in the Tour. The only people scoring points in the system they had last year were rider finishing on the podium in the GC and stage winners, neither seem very likely.

 

[halamala]

Where did you find this?

Matteo Carrara : http://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/Valle Seriana/186740_mateo_carrara_in_gara_in_spagna/
Stijn Devolder : http://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/11983/devolder-ik-ga-voor-klassement-en-rit-in-tour-.html
Johnny Hoogerland : http://www.nu.nl/sport/2457600/vacansoleil-wil-duidelijkheid-van-hoogerland.html
Wout Poels : http://www.sportdome.nl/Nieuws/27692-Vacansoleil-met-Poels-naar-de-Tour-de-France.html
Lieuwe Westra : http://www.nu.nl/sport/2457600/vacansoleil-wil-duidelijkheid-van-hoogerland.html

 

[Barrus]

The sources for Westra and Hoogerland are exactly what I posted in the OP of this thread and in this source it says that they first want certainty of Hoogerland and Westra staying with Vacansoleil and it leaves the option open that they are not selected for the tour team, especailly if they decide not to stay with Vacansoleil

 

[Kwibus]

The performance of Vacansoleil in the Giro was dissapointing. Besides Hoogerland who wasn't impressive either there wasn't much action.
There wasn't a day in this Giro that you might have thought a Vacans rider was going to win a stage.

It's not really surprising though as their lineup was rather poor. I wonder why Marcato wasn't there or was he? I can't find his name...

Last year I was one of the people that said Vacans deserves a PT license so I really hope they will perform better in the TdF. They got the riders to do so as well imo.

Who should Vacans send and which riders are pretty much certain they will go? Imo they shouldn't send anyone from their Giro squad.

My Vacans lineup:
-Leukemans
-Poels
-Westra
-Marcato
-Devolder (meh...)
-Feillu
-De Gendt

This lineup lacks a bit of domestiques so I guess they should add 2 domestique riders as well. I'd like to see Ligthart and van Leijen in the TdF as well. That's ofcourse because I'm dutch, but also because they are showing potential. Ligthart seems to be really promising and van Leijen who has been riding rather poor this spring seemed to get back into form in the Tour of Belgium.

Mosquera is still there. I think it's a disgrace it's still unknown if he will be suspended or not and I think Vacans should let him ride the TdF. Saxo let's Contador ride as well.....
I don't think they will though, but if they allow him to ride then let him ride the TdF.


Edit: Apparently Ruijgh, Ligthart and Martijn Keizer will ride the Vuelta. So Ligthart won't go to the TdF for sure.