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Valverde at the Vuelta

Could from Valverde be expected that would podium this Vuela?

He didn't do that well at the TDF (ok he won a stage by the merci of Sky) but was nowhere in the GC.

He decided three days before the start to participate.

He bridged that gap to Contador yesterday in a very impressiiiiiiivve way yesterday...

Riding on water & bread or juiced up?

I have my doubts...
 
May 2, 2010
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I don't think he'd risk his career after being suspended for two years. None of the big names have been caught twice.

He didn't exert himself too much at the Tour owing to his being out of contention for the general classification from the very start. He's been playing the victim role after the Tour saying he had so much days of competition and blah blah, but he's a superclass rider.

His performance yesterday was great, but by no means something he couldn't do when in peak form.

And when tested he's never been positive :D
 
May 26, 2010
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Valverde has been and will always be one of Eufamio´s special boys. The guy must be pi$$ing dope by now.
I think we can close this discussion.

Valverde is doped.
 
Jul 10, 2009
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About time we discussed this

I am glad someone opened this thread, I wanted to open one since the Vuelta. AV was and is a non-repentant doper. It sounds strange cos AC never did say any thing repentant but then again he was not caught doping that is blood bags or EPO test etc. AV was caught with his blood with a doctor same as Basso but Basso repented, sort of. AV and Vino whose own was an actual failed test showed absolutely no remorse and were arrogant. AC one does not detect the Lance arrogance so one might say he cleaned up somewhat after the test.

I have no doubt that these arrogant folks, AV and Vino returned back fully juiced. I cannot see any form of tiredness in AV in the Vuelta, he seems strong everyday, its amazing. You could see AC in the 2011 TDF tiring as he got to the end when he did the 90mile dash and also on wednesday. Yet, AV seemed no less tired on wednesday as he got to the end than when he started the stage race. It was amazing, yet he was riding hard.

I dislike it when the arrogant folks cream it along and get whatever they want. I think AV may have come back a bit cleaner but his arrogant desire for glory got him back on the full train.
 
sartoris said:
His performance yesterday was great, but by no means something he couldn't do when in peak form.
with all due respect, how do we have any idea what he can and cannot do at peak form. he is a blood doper. has been his whole career. so how would we know what his true form is really. same goes for Clentadope. it simply boggles my mind that people still give performance credit to ex-dopers for what they did when they were fully charged. someone actually said that it didn't matter if Clentadope was doped yesterday because his win was all due to tactics.

absolutely freaking ridiculous. does no one realize that perhaps the reason that a certain doped rider can ride a certain way is ONLY because he is doped.

the reality is that we simply can't know if any particular rider is doped or if it is because the general levels have gone down. that is what has been so infuriating about following the sport.

however, i certainly don't want any "ex-" doper to come back and win a GT. it makes me want to puke.
 
Big Doopie said:
however, i certainly don't want any "ex-" doper to come back and win a GT. it makes me want to puke.
What's your stance on Basso? He won the 2010 Giro, but his training data and testing info was posted publically to go and look at.

Remember, Valverde was closely monitored from Puerto to his eventual sanction, so he may not have been charging to the full Riccò before his suspension (not to the extent of the Kelme days). And the guy has been a superstar in the making ever since he first got on the bike as a child. At some point down the road he went from being a super-talented kid to a super-talented-and-juiced adult.

This GT route is well suited to a guy like Valverde. There are a bunch of medium mountains, not long enough to tail him off, and liable to come to a sprint of the elites, which was always his strength.

I also don't buy that he only decided to do the Vuelta just before the start. It was probably the plan all along. Apart from the TDU, this looks an awful lot like a normal Valverde race program. And he was poor between Paris-Nice and this Vuelta; he was a domestique at the Tour de Suisse, and his tour was derailed by crashes.

There are three guys who are clearly streets ahead at this race. Alejandro Valverde being one of them, when you look down the list of names in the race, isn't a surprise. The route suits him and he's a top quality rider. Maybe he's back on the sauce, maybe he isn't. I wouldn't like to say. But for a guy like Don Alejandro, he doesn't need to be doping to 2009 di Luca levels to do this. Too many one-climb stages where fatigue doesn't come into account enough, and makes recovery easier.

If they'd had a couple more stages like the Cuitu Negru, then we could be more clear on the matter, as he's never really liked multiple major col stages. Bola del Mundo will tell us more than Fuente Dé ever could, because there you had an exhausted Katyusha team who'd been leading the péloton for two weeks until that point, and Valverde had the psychological advantage and the men up the road to share pacing duty with.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Lexman said:
He bridged that gap to Contador yesterday in a very impressiiiiiiivve way yesterday...
It did not look that impressive to me. Contador had Tiralongo pulling for him before he went solo. Valverde was with three others sharing the work. He just barely missed catching Contador. It's not like he soloed after Contador and made up two minutes himself.
 
May 3, 2010
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sartoris said:
I don't think he'd risk his career after being suspended for two years. None of the big names have been caught twice.
Other than Ricco, Di Luca, Sinkiewicz, Gonchar, Hamilton...
 
Aug 10, 2010
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Mrs John Murphy said:
Other than Ricco, Di Luca, Sinkiewicz, Gonchar, Hamilton...
I'd say DiLuca was "very big" and Ricco and Hamilton were at least "big." Sinkiewicz and Gonchar are debatable. I'd say you made your point.

And the Breeders are very cool.
 
May 3, 2010
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sartoris said:
I said big names. You must be blind.
Ricco isn't a big name?

Di Luca isn't a big name?

Hamilton isn't a big name?

Gonchar isn't a big name?

Sorry, you'll have to enlighten me about the parameters of a big name rider.

MarkvW said:
I'd say DiLuca was "very big" and Ricco and Hamilton were at least "big." Sinkiewicz and Gonchar are debatable. I'd say you made your point.

And the Breeders are very cool.
The Breeders are very cool. Gonchar - world champion TTer, wore the Yellow Jersey, won stages at the TDF and the Giro, top 10 in the Giro - not a household name but rider with similar palmares to say David Millar. Sinkiewicz was there because his comeback seemed to have a high profile - I seem to recall reading articles about his comeback in a way in which I don't recall reading about other riders. Plus this was a very quick list of people I could think of off the top of my head who failed two tests. I'm sure that some of the Festina riders got popped twice.

To make the point further didn't Virenque go back to doping when he was at Polti? Weren't they smuggling their drugs in vacuum cleaners? I don't think he was busted for that.

sartoris said:
No, he's not.
Now you're just trolling.
 
May 2, 2010
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Mrs John Murphy said:
Ricco isn't a big name?

Di Luca isn't a big name?

Hamilton isn't a big name?

Gonchar isn't a big name?

Sorry, you'll have to enlighten me about the parameters of a big name rider.



Now you're just trolling.
No John, I'm not. And you know so.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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sartoris said:
I don't think he'd risk his career after being suspended for two years. None of the big names have been caught twice.
He didn't exert himself too much at the Tour owing to his being out of contention for the general classification from the very start. He's been playing the victim role after the Tour saying he had so much days of competition and blah blah, but he's a superclass rider.

His performance yesterday was great, but by no means something he couldn't do when in peak form.

And when tested he's never been positive :D
How big do you need? how about Eddy Merckx?

1969 Giro d'Italia - Reactivan
1973 Giro di Lombardia - Mucantil
1977 Flèche Wallonne - Stimul
 
Mar 26, 2009
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sartoris said:
I said big names. You must be blind.
Those were big enough names for me (minus Sinkewitz), but I thought of another rider that has been caught doping on multiple occasions:

Lance Armstrong.

That's pretty big name in cycling, right?
 
Aug 10, 2010
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Kender said:
How big do you need? how about Eddy Merckx?

1969 Giro d'Italia - Reactivan
1973 Giro di Lombardia - Mucantil
1977 Flèche Wallonne - Stimul
Eddy ate "big" for breakfast!
 
May 19, 2011
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Lexman said:
Could from Valverde be expected that would podium this Vuela?

He didn't do that well at the TDF (ok he won a stage by the merci of Sky) but was nowhere in the GC.

He decided three days before the start to participate.

He bridged that gap to Contador yesterday in a very impressiiiiiiivve way yesterday...

Riding on water & bread or juiced up?

I have my doubts...
This is what I posted a few days ago

"most fishy is Valverde. He probably come to tour with a good conscience and thought cycling is get cleaner with Giro as an indicator. But got shocked and bombed by SKY performance. Well come back home, up his game play by SKY force. Wola, a new Valverde emerged in Vuelta without that crash, he would still be in red.:eek:"
 
Sep 10, 2009
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Valverde and Contador

When Landis rode away oh so many years ago and was found out, it all made sense to us that he doped. How can Contador or Valverde ride away in similar fashion and not face the same questions. We know something funny is going on and the announcers know it but say nothing.....they are not even maesured in their commentary and just attribute it to "grat form". What a load of hooey. These guys know how to beat the system and we all know that in Spain it is an institutionalized problem. At least the Italians are making a real effort to clean thins up in their country. Spain talks itup but supports the cheaters because they are so needy when it comes to wanting to be recognized as being more than a nation dependent on German financial generosity. What is it about that culture that blinds them to what the rest of us see as obvious. The Contador affair hilites the institutionalization of the problem in Spain.
 
Aug 13, 2010
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maxmartin said:
most fishy is Valverde. He probably come to tour with a good conscience and thought cycling is get cleaner with Giro as an indicator. But got shocked and bombed by SKY performance. Well come back home, up his game play by SKY force.
Really? You think that Valverde who never admitted (as far as I know) to being involved in Operación Puerto had such a 'good conscience' to go clean but reconsidered off the back of one race. In fact, he seemed pretty good on the stage he won. Unless he won it clean he must have decided to get on a programme part way through the Tour. His 'good conscience' did not last that long then if he had blood/epo/whatever ready and waiting for him part way through. If blood then you would expect that to be taken well before the Tour.

IMO the only reason the Festina scandal made riders reconsider doping is because they were afraid of going to jail. Start dishing out jail sentences and I reckon you might see some real change in the peloton.
 
Lexman said:
Could from Valverde be expected that would podium this Vuela?

He didn't do that well at the TDF (ok he won a stage by the merci of Sky) but was nowhere in the GC.
He got stuck behind a crash in one stage and got a mechanical before the first MTF the next day. No wonder he then shifted his focus to breakaways. He was already 4-5 minutes down at that point, if memory serves me right. Oh yeah, he crashed in at least one stage, too.

but regardless... he did climb with all but the very best (Nibali, Froome, Wiggins) in the penultimate high mountain stage, and was arguably at least as strong the next day (Peyragudes). I don't think his level at the Vuelta is ANY higher than the level he reached in those two stages, but that's just me.
 
May 2, 2010
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Chemainiac said:
When Landis rode away oh so many years ago and was found out, it all made sense to us that he doped. How can Contador or Valverde ride away in similar fashion and not face the same questions. We know something funny is going on and the announcers know it but say nothing.....they are not even maesured in their commentary and just attribute it to "grat form". What a load of hooey. These guys know how to beat the system and we all know that in Spain it is an institutionalized problem. At least the Italians are making a real effort to clean thins up in their country. Spain talks itup but supports the cheaters because they are so needy when it comes to wanting to be recognized as being more than a nation dependent on German financial generosity. What is it about that culture that blinds them to what the rest of us see as obvious. The Contador affair hilites the institutionalization of the problem in Spain.
You've got the nerve to compare superclass riders like Contador and Valverde with Landis and then go and simplify everything by saying "since Landis went away alone for the whole queen stage of the TdF and was caught, then Contador and Valverde are cheaters because they went away too". Does your rule apply to every rider who pulls away from the peloton?

Your chauvinistic attack on Spain is groundless and you talk by hearsay. Can you elaborate about how the problem of doping is institucionalized in Spain?

But you show very accurately how far your intellect reaches in these words: "Spain talks itup but supports the cheaters because they are so needy when it comes to wanting to be recognized as being more than a nation dependent on German financial generosity." Says everything about you. Buenos días, gilipollas!!:D
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Chemainiac said:
When Landis rode away oh so many years ago and was found out, it all made sense to us that he doped. How can Contador or Valverde ride away in similar fashion and not face the same questions.
While I don't disagree with the essence of your point, I don't think it's quite true that Contador and Valverde rode away in the same fashion as Landis. Landis won that stage by nearly 6 minutes (over second place Sastre), 7 or 8 over the then tour leader (who was Perreiro if I remember right), after soloing for what must have been more than 100km. Contador had Tiralongo to help him, and Valverde was with Rodriguez and others till near the very end. Finally the margin was only 2 minutes, and the level of the field probably isn't what Landis was facing.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Chemainiac said:
Spain talks itup but supports the cheaters because they are so needy when it comes to wanting to be recognized as being more than a nation dependent on German financial generosity. What is it about that culture that blinds them to what the rest of us see as obvious. The Contador affair hilites the institutionalization of the problem in Spain.
I want to explain why this is stupid jingoism. The only large country in the EU that has run budget surpluses in the last 10 years is Spain. Until the recent bank bailout on a percentage of GDP basis, Spain's public debt was less than Germany's. The story of the current economic situation is not profligacy and generosity. The German dominated EU has forced the people of Spain to assume the burden of an enormous amount of very private debt, much of it generated in a real estate bubble that was stimulated in great part by the change of currency to the euro, and the subsequent influx of capital from Northern Europe. The irresponsible parties in this story include the German banks who made loans to parties that could not cover those loans, and the politicians that have refused to treat an economic union as a unified financial structure. The yolking together of disparate economies under a common currency created a situation in which the poorer member states could not respond as they should, since they are effectively using a foreign currency.
 
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