Vaughters on the PR offensive...

[Notso Swift]

OK not looking at the clinic thing, another story, another place.

But does anyone else out there think straight away there is a whole lot more to the story and Slipstream are obviously running scared of the PR implications.
Then, bang, on the offensive, discrediting people that 5 minutes before he was defending, airing dirty laundry, demonstrating either incompetence (ignoring 2 year old certificate from problematic party) or acceptance until it suits (based on breaking White contract over GreenEDGE)

The question is is there any way Slipstream can win out of this, would they have been better to sweep it away?

Will it have a detrimental effect on the riders already "at risk" of poaching. I mean Slipstream all of a sudden looks like a team that will screw over their mates if it suits (Everyone knows White ended his career probably a year or two early because his mate JV offered him a job, and White was smart enough to know he was always a rider at the mercy of others)

That last one is the big loss for me, who wants to work in an environment where there is no I in Team, but there is a M + E.
There is one thing about being the boss, but there is another thing about being respected... has JV lost that?

 

[ansimi]

It's generally terrible business to discuss personnel contracts and terminations in the open like that. I think it would be especially silly in a business as tight-knit as cycling.

The only strategic reason I can think of for him to be on the PR offensive is that he's anticipating some very bad happening for his team - probably something we could only discuss in the clinic. But it's also totally possible that he's just being foolish.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

We complain that we want openness and transparency. Then when someone gives us something that at the very least seems to be openness and transparency, we become even more suspicious and wonder what they're really hiding.

I don't blame people for having that reaction. Cycling would make an incorrigible cynic of Mother Theresa.

 

[ingsve]

Cycling would make an incorrigible cynic of Mother Theresa.

Too late. Mother Theresa was already a vile and cynical person and nothing like the saint that people thing she was.

 

[Race Radio]

I don't know about you but if somebody tried to extort 500,000 Euros from me I would not be as kinda as JV is.

 

[cyclingPRpro]

I agree with Race Radio, JV is being far more polite than I if one of my riders tried to extort 500k Euros... The egg timer has gonne off, Lowe is finished in pro cycling.

 

[TRDean]

I don't know about you but if somebody tried to extort 500,000 Euros from me I would not be as kinda as JV is.

Not to mention...extortion is illegal correct?

 

[Race Radio]

Exactly. And the response from Lowe and Hardie has been.................?

 

[Roland Rat]

Exactly. And the response from Lowe and Hardie has been.................?

A tweet referencing a legal defamation case from 10 years ago (as your good self is well aware). They're clearly trying to copy His Ballness.

 

[Race Radio]

Hardie issues a press release

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/news/20356/BREAKING-Hardie-rejects-Lowe-claims

 

[**Uru**]

Assuming it is true that Lowe and Hardie were threatening to go public with accusations, then I think JV did exactly the right thing. Look how well the same strategy worked for David Letterman when a TV producer tried to extort $2 million through release of info that Letterman had affairs with staff members. The negative for Letterman going public is his wife found out and probably wanted to strangle him, but I am sure it would have been far worse if everyone found out through the tabloids.

Imagine if JV called Lowe's bluff. Lowe would release the information in as damaging a way as possible, ala Floyd Landis style. Even if it is a mountain from a mole hill, Slipstream would be knee deep in the questions for months or years. The folks in our clinic forum would have foddar for conspiracy theories for generations. Even as it is, people are already bracing for another shoe to drop.

If anything, I think the only possible mis-step is letting Whitey go, but he might have been packing his bags before this anyway. The upside is we do not need to look at Vaughter's pointy sideburns and hear his lovestruck comments about Ryder during Versus non-coverage of the Tour this year. He will be too busy in the team car.

 

[ergmonkey]

I want to know whether the 500k figure was thrown out in an effort to "extort," or as part of a settlement negotiation. Tough to say at this point.

Vaughters' claims clearly point to extortion; but Vaughters also says there was an ongoing breach of contract dispute. A settlement of any such dispute would likely involve a non-disclosure agreement regarding the nature and facts of the dispute.

When Vaughters says Lowe threatened to make damaging public statements if he weren't paid, that could describe bald extortion or it could describe this scenario: Lowe was willing to settle the dispute and agree to a non-disclosure agreement in exchange for a financial settlement worth 500k.

 

[Notso Swift]

Probably not a bad analysis

I just can't help think there will be longer term ramifications to the team with all the dirty laundry.
The White thing really smells like Denmark (and that is nothing to do with Saxo or the Chicken!)

 

[simo1733]

OK not looking at the clinic thing, another story, another place.

But does anyone else out there think straight away there is a whole lot more to the story and Slipstream are obviously running scared of the PR implications.
Then, bang, on the offensive, discrediting people that 5 minutes before he was defending, airing dirty laundry, demonstrating either incompetence (ignoring 2 year old certificate from problematic party) or acceptance until it suits (based on breaking White contract over GreenEDGE)

The question is is there any way Slipstream can win out of this, would they have been better to sweep it away?

Will it have a detrimental effect on the riders already "at risk" of poaching. I mean Slipstream all of a sudden looks like a team that will screw over their mates if it suits (Everyone knows White ended his career probably a year or two early because his mate JV offered him a job, and White was smart enough to know he was always a rider at the mercy of others)

That last one is the big loss for me, who wants to work in an environment where there is no I in Team, but there is a M + E.
There is one thing about being the boss, but there is another thing about being respected... has JV lost that?

*** edited by mod ***

 

[cyclingPRpro]

I want to know whether the 500k figure was thrown out in an effort to "extort," or as part of a settlement negotiation. Tough to say at this point.

Vaughters' claims clearly point to extortion; but Vaughters also says there was an ongoing breach of contract dispute. A settlement of any such dispute would likely involve a non-disclosure agreement regarding the nature and facts of the dispute.

When Vaughters says Lowe threatened to make damaging public statements if he weren't paid, that could describe bald extortion or it could describe this scenario: Lowe was willing to settle the dispute and agree to a non-disclosure agreement in exchange for a financial settlement worth 500k.

In the American legal system that is called extortion.

 

[ergmonkey]

In the American legal system that is called extortion.

Apparently you know more about American law than I do.

Please explain how not signing a non-disclosure agreement and/or asking for money during settlement negotiations is equal to extortion.

 

[cyclingPRpro]

well, mainly because Lowe was demanding a figure far above any possible realistic salary. "Pay me this or I won't sign" is still extortion.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

:All explained here

 

[ergmonkey]

well, mainly because Lowe was demanding a figure far above any possible realistic salary. "Pay me this or I won't sign" is still extortion.

Incorrect.

 

[Angliru]

well, mainly because Lowe was demanding a figure far above any possible realistic salary. "Pay me this or I won't sign" is still extortion.

Wasn't it "pay me this or I will expose to the media damaging info that would reflect badly on the team"?

 

[cyclingPRpro]

Incorrect.

EXTORTION

The use, or the express or implicit threat of the use, of violence or other criminal means to cause harm to person, reputation, or property as a means to obtain property from someone else with his consent. USC 18

The Hobbs Act defines "extortion" as "the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right." 18 U.S.C. S 1951(b)(2).

A good lawyer or States Attorney can shoehorn this situation into the above legal definition.

 

[needasmoke]

EXTORTION

The use, or the express or implicit threat of the use, of violence or other criminal means to cause harm to person, reputation, or property as a means to obtain property from someone else with his consent. USC 18

The Hobbs Act defines "extortion" as "the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right." 18 U.S.C. S 1951(b)(2).

A good lawyer or States Attorney can shoehorn this situation into the above legal definition.

i don't want to take this off the topic but - shoehorning? c'mon - criminal law would require a prosecutor PROVE that an ILLEGAL threat was made, or, that goods or services were received in such a threat.

get off your high horse ..

 

[ergmonkey]

Wasn't it "pay me this or I will expose to the media damaging info that would reflect badly on the team"?

That is what JV alleges. Which is why I posted that JV is describing extortion.

However, I also noted that we haven't (to my knowledge) heard a comprehensive response from Lowe('s representatives) about this chain of events. I then suggested how one might disingenuously present settlement negotiations for a breach of contract dispute as the sort of "extortion" JV is alleging.

 

[ergmonkey]

EXTORTION

The use, or the express or implicit threat of the use, of violence or other criminal means to cause harm to person, reputation, or property as a means to obtain property from someone else with his consent. USC 18

The Hobbs Act defines "extortion" as "the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right." 18 U.S.C. S 1951(b)(2).

A good lawyer or States Attorney can shoehorn this situation into the above legal definition.

First, I never said it is impossible that extortion may have occurred.

Second, "shoehorning" legitimate settlement negotiations into extortion is a huge stretch for even a "good lawyer or States Attorney," as settlement negotiation talks are privileged under the Federal Rules of Evidence.

 

[cyclingPRpro]

high horse? how is believing that a rider and is agent trying to pull money from a team being on a high horse. Lowe screwed up by not getting permission to go to early camp, after the Pegasus collapse and he was left without a ride he was desperate. A person's true character is shown when they are desperate.

as to Privilege... you aren't citing Goodyear v Chiles (Heatway) are you? That has absolutely no bearing. The ruling in that case was about introducing evidence from an unrelated lawsuit.

I apologize for using the term "shoehorn," I didn't need to. I was tired and trying to be funny, at which I failed. Sorry.

And no. I do not work for the Slipstream organization.