Vincenzo Nibali

[craig1985]

This dude must have some good PR going on, or he really is clean as everybody says he is. If anybody has read the most recent Procycling Magazine article on him, how his coach (Paolo Slongo) said that he has "total faith", and that "he has always been on the straight and narrow", and his regime of performance-enhancing consisting of "bread and sausage" (Procycling, July 2010, page 101).

Apparently when everybody on Fassa Bortolo was going to Luigi Cecchini for "training advice", Nibali stayed well clear of Cecchini. The late Franco Ballerini was adamant that Nibali's clean and a 'man of his word'.

So have I reached the cynical stage where, thinking back to Bernie Kohl and thinking "bulls..." when I read comments about Nibali and apparently being Mr Clean? I won't judge him per se if he's touching the hot sauce, with the last week of the Giro as tough as it was, I think I would of needed something so I could ride every stage if I were just riding on my own.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This dude must have some good PR going on, or he really is clean as everybody says he is. If anybody has read the most recent Procycling Magazine article on him, how his coach (Paolo Slongo) said that he has "total faith", and that "he has always been on the straight and narrow", and his regime of performance-enhancing consisting of "bread and sausage" (Procycling, July 2010, page 101).

Apparently when everybody on Fassa Bortolo was going to Luigi Cecchini for "training advice", Nibali stayed well clear of Cecchini. The late Franco Ballerini was adamant that Nibali's clean and a 'man of his word'.

So have I reached the cynical stage where, thinking back to Bernie Kohl and thinking "bulls..." when I read comments about Nibali and apparently being Mr Clean? I won't judge him per se if he's touching the hot sauce, with the last week of the Giro as tough as it was, I think I would of needed something so I could ride every stage if I were just riding on my own.

To the highlighted above - simple answer yes.

By all means be cynical when someone who coaches/directs a rider proclaims them clean - but this is the second thread here naming a rider for no other reason than they are a professional cyclist and sorry 'craig' but I find that quite disrespectful to some of the riders who are trying to do it clean.

 

[roundabout]

he and pelizotti were linked to ferrari last year by fanini

 

[craig1985]

To the highlighted above - simple answer yes.

By all means be cynical when someone who coaches/directs a rider proclaims them clean - but this is the second thread here naming a rider for no other reason than they are a professional cyclist and sorry 'craig' but I find that quite disrespectful to some of the riders who are trying to do it clean.

I don't see how it's any worse then the gazillion Flandis-Armstrong-RS threads we have, all basically covering the one topic.

 

[kurtinsc]

To the highlighted above - simple answer yes.

By all means be cynical when someone who coaches/directs a rider proclaims them clean - but this is the second thread here naming a rider for no other reason than they are a professional cyclist and sorry 'craig' but I find that quite disrespectful to some of the riders who are trying to do it clean.

While I tend to agree there's little point bringing up riders who don't have evidence pointing to them... I still chuckle at the idea that there are riders "trying to do it clean".

There may actually be some... but they're not names we hear about. They are guys who carry bottles for the names we hear about.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I don't see how it's any worse then the gazillion Flandis-Armstrong-RS threads we have, all basically covering the one topic.

You started a thread on Nibali - with nothing new on the guy.

The reason there are Landis/LA threads is because there is new information on the doping practices of USPS and LA and the admission of Landis to his own PED use.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

While I tend to agree there's little point bringing up riders who don't have evidence pointing to them... I still chuckle at the idea that there are riders "trying to do it clean".

There may actually be some... but they're not names we hear about. They are guys who carry bottles for the names we hear about.

If you can figure out why these talented riders are "names that you have not heard of" then you have you gone a long way towards understanding the problem.

 

[Ferminal]

Mas, it's just a thread!

There are threads on almost every top50 rider, with varying levels of "evidence" ranging from rumours of links to shady characters to positive tests. There's endless posts on Wiggins and the only thing hanging over his head is one set of data from a blood test on the 2nd rest day in 2009.

Personally I have no idea about Nibali at all, so would welcome anyone who is willing to discuss it one way or the other.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Mas, it's just a thread!

There are threads on almost every top50 rider, with varying levels of "evidence" ranging from rumours of links to shady characters to positive tests. There's endless posts on Wiggins and the only thing hanging over his head is one set of data from a blood test on the 2nd rest day in 2009.

Personally I have no idea about Nibali at all, so would welcome anyone who is willing to discuss it one way or the other.

Fair enough - but when I spotted the thread title earlier I was opening it expecting he had failed a test or new info had emerged on the guy. A question mark in the title would have even made a difference.

This and the Rast thread - with no new info seems excessive cynicism.

(As for Wiggo..... there is a little bit more to him than just one suspicious set of numbers.)

 

[kurtinsc]

If you can figure out why these talented riders are "names that you have not heard of" then you have you gone a long way towards understanding the problem.

Of course I understand.

My point is that I'm fine with starting a thread about any top rider being doped... because the fact that they are a top rider is suspect in itself. Nibali has place well in grand tours... so there's evidence he's doped right there. Not conclusive... but he'd probably be finishing 40th if he were clean.

 

[Pedaaldanser]

Pelizotti is under investigation, he seemed to ride really strong in last year's Giro and Tour. Basso wins this year's Giro, Nibali rode extremely well too. The whole Liquigas team seemed really powerful. I wouldn't be surprised if they had some team organized advanced program going on, complete with regular checkups and medical help to keep their values dropping over three weeks.

However, I haven't actually seen or heard anything indicating that that's the case. I'd be more inclined to believe it if Basso and the team as a whole do great in the Tour as well.

 

[Barrus]

Pelizotti is under investigation, he seemed to ride really strong in last year's Giro and Tour. Basso wins this year's Giro, Nibali rode extremely well too. The whole Liquigas team seemed really powerful. I wouldn't be surprised if they had some team organized advanced program going on, complete with regular checkups and medical help to keep their values dropping over three weeks.

However, I haven't actually seen or heard anything indicating that that's the case. I'd be more inclined to believe it if Basso and the team as a whole do great in the Tour as well.

well about the strength of liquigas in the last giro. It has been often seen on this forum as being on par with USPS during the Lance tours. However I am not convinced these two situations are similar. Firstly Liquigas did often lose helpers during the earlier climbs, who only got back up due to a good descent of these riders. Also they have and have had for some times, some of the best mountain domestiques in existence, especially with someone as Szmyd, And concerning with the TTT, they just really rode it in the correct manner, due to which they could take a lot of time on the climb at the end, somewhere where a lot of the other teams lost a lot of time.

Not that I say they aren't doping, BUT a teamwide doping program, is something that I find not as readily believable in the current peloton

 

[samerics]

Fair enough - but when I spotted the thread title earlier I was opening it expecting he had failed a test or new info had emerged on the guy. A question mark in the title would have even made a difference.

This and the Rast thread - with no new info seems excessive cynicism.

(As for Wiggo..... there is a little bit more to him than just one suspicious set of numbers.)

I'm curious. What more is there to Wiggins than one set of numbers? Or am I misundertanding you?

 

[Benotti69]

I'm curious. What more is there to Wiggins than one set of numbers? Or am I misundertanding you?

the fact that TeamSky refused Paul Kimmage full access for this years TdF is what is more....

 

[craig1985]

You started a thread on Nibali - with nothing new on the guy.

The reason there are Landis/LA threads is because there is new information on the doping practices of USPS and LA and the admission of Landis to his own PED use.

Fire up Dr Nick. Been on the Guinness? You seem pretty angry.

I created the thread to state my opinion on what I read and address my skepticism, and I'm sorry if I have led you to believe otherwise.

But then have been plenty of Landis/LA threads that haven't stated anything new, only for BPC to troll, and people like you being stupid enough to respond.

 

[Von Mises]

To the highlighted above - simple answer yes.

By all means be cynical when someone who coaches/directs a rider proclaims them clean - but this is the second thread here naming a rider for no other reason than they are a professional cyclist and sorry 'craig' but I find that quite disrespectful to some of the riders who are trying to do it clean.

I agree. I´ve noticed that whenever discussion starts about this or that cyclist and doping, one of the "evidences" what follows: there have been lot of talks in past, there have been rumors etc. But when you start digging what actually are these talks and rumors, you quite often find exactly that type of talks, empty and without information.
I am sure, at one point this thread about Nibali also starts living its own life and constitutes as "evidence", there have been lot of talks about Nibali...

 

[Roland Rat]

the fact that TeamSky refused Paul Kimmage full access for this years TdF is what is more....

And the Allen Lim link.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Fire up Dr Nick. Been on the Guinness? You seem pretty angry.

I created the thread to state my opinion on what I read and address my skepticism, and I'm sorry if I have led you to believe otherwise.

But then have been plenty of Landis/LA threads that haven't stated anything new, only for BPC to troll, and people like you being stupid enough to respond.

No - not angry, a little frustrated so my apologies if it came across as such.
I just thought it a bit much that Rast & Nibali had threads started without anything new to offer - and as 'VanMises' pointed out that in itself just leads to suspicion

I suppose the reason it came across 'strong' is quite simply I expected better from someone like yourself who knows the workings here - who can see beyond the new mantra of "everybody is doing it".

By all means stay skeptical, question everything and look beyond the prepared statements and fluff pieces that the fan gets served... but do remember that there are those within the sport trying to do the right thing.


(As for the Guinness -nah, you'd be safe...I go from happy, to horny (but no use to anyone) then sleep like Bigfoot)

 

[Thee_chisa]

sky were interested in him, but suddenly lost interest - apparently due to something coming to light and his bio passport

 

[Mambo95]

sky were interested in him, but suddenly lost interest - apparently due to something coming to light and his bio passport

You're mixing to different reports into one there.

Sky temporarily lost interest because he still had a year left on his contract (and to the British public, Nibali's no Wiggins). Rumours still persist of Nibali going to Sky (although he seems to be committed to Liquigas). The star with the dodgy passport is meant to be someone else entirely.

 

[Barrus]

You're mixing to different reports into one there.

Sky temporarily lost interest because he still had a year left on his contract (and to the British public, Nibali's no Wiggins). Rumours still persist of Nibali going to Sky (although he seems to be committed to Liquigas). The star with the dodgy passport is meant to be someone else entirely.

Wiggins?

 

[Mambo95]

Wiggins?

Yes Wiggins. I mean in terms of profile to your average British sports fan. Wiggins is a well known name in Britain, maybe one of four or five cyclists your average man in the street could name, so Sky were willing to pay for him. Nibali, not so.

 

[van nelle]

Pelizotti is under investigation, he seemed to ride really strong in last year's Giro and Tour. Basso wins this year's Giro, Nibali rode extremely well too. The whole Liquigas team seemed really powerful. I wouldn't be surprised if they had some team organized advanced program going on, complete with regular checkups and medical help to keep their values dropping over three weeks.

However, I haven't actually seen or heard anything indicating that that's the case. I'd be more inclined to believe it if Basso and the team as a whole do great in the Tour as well.

I must say I would be suprised. If you look for example at Kreuziger, his progress is pretty steady and natural - as much as some people start to talk about him as a failure (stupid). And he's been a world star since he was a kid (before Liq). Same with Sagan. He's unbelievable, but again, he won pretty much everything he tried as a kid + in Liq he is just for short time.
So if there is doping (can be), I don't think it's in form of some organized advanced program or how do you call it.

 

[Pedaaldanser]

You are right, I'm taking it back. After seeing Liquigas perform in this Tour I doubt they have a program. I'm not saying Nibali or Basso didn't receive any extra help for the Giro, but I no longer think it was a team program.

More likely they just trained hard (no pun intended) and gave it their all for their home tour, leaving little energy for the next GT. Peaking for one race isn't so odd.

Apologies to all the Liquigas fans!

 

[LaFlorecita]

Nibali