Wake up people, keep your focus on the UCI

[Joe Banks]

If you people put half as much energy into asking questions about the UCI's mgmt committee, executive board, and anti-doping commission, as you do about LA's one nut then you might actually see some change.

The problems are STRUCTURAL. If you don't fix the structure, in 3 years time you will all be talking about Andrew Talansky and Tejay Vangarderen in the same way you talk about Phillipe Gilbert and Froome.

Like any profit-driven corporation that does the absolute maximum of what is permitted by regulation, cycling teams will bump up against (and sometimes cross) the line the UCI sets.

So it seems to me the question is how do you get the UCI to raise the bar?

 

[D-Queued]

If you people put half as much energy into asking questions about the UCI's mgmt committee, executive board, and anti-doping commission, as you do about LA's one nut then you might actually see some change.

The problems are STRUCTURAL. If you don't fix the structure, in 3 years time you will all be talking about Andrew Talansky and Tejay Vangarderen in the same way you talk about Phillipe Gilbert and Froome.

Like any profit-driven corporation that does the absolute maximum of what is permitted by regulation, cycling teams will bump up against (and sometimes cross) the line the UCI sets.

So it seems to me the question is how do you get the UCI to raise the bar?

NOBODY is losing sight of Fat Pat or Verdruggen's role in facilitating the dark era.

Dave.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Thank you for the advice.You are now officially appointed as the clinic senior new advisor.

 

[zigmeister]

Thank you for the advice.You are now officially appointed as the clinic senior new advisor.

haha...yeah.

I think what most of us are waiting for is the "mountain of evidence" the USADA is supposed to be turning over to the UCI.

Then, let's see what their next move is. That is going to be what is important. Or will it be status quo?

Stay tuned kids!

 

[Joe Banks]

NOBODY is losing sight of Fat Pat or Verdruggen's role in facilitating the dark era.

Dave.

Dave,

McQuaid and Verbruggen should not alone be demonized. They are (usually) rational actors (not so much McQuaid lately) that had a job to do, manage and grow the sport. If an institution like the UCI can be driven so far off course by one or two people, then the institution itself must be reformed.

 

[FitSsikS]

......cycling teams will bump up against (and sometimes cross) the line the UCI sets. So it seems to me the question is how do you get the UCI to raise the bar?

You've crossed the line suggesting they raise the bar. Thirsty little pro cyclists will be unable to buy a drink.

 

[hiero2]

Agree with both. We need to keep an eye on the UCI - but it will be the people at the top, not the procedures, that bring us true relief. It doesn't matter what McQuaid has done in that past - and he sure looks dodgy to me - if he truly throws his support behind change then things will change.

If, on the other hand, he throws himself only verbally behind the change, as he seems to be doing, the changes will never take root, UNLESS the rats in the public (us) become so steadfast in their defiance that it is impossible for the UCI to ignore us.

The UCI has put in place a tool which stands a chance of forcing the hand of those at the top, including McQuaid. I speak of the bio passport. But he can certainly try to "keep it quiet". The USADA is also acting in such a way that they are intentionally forcing the UCI hand. At the moment, things appear quite promising, imo. That doesn't mean events can't be turned south again. So, yeah, we need to maintain vigilance.

Really enjoyed the convos this AM, folks. Later!

 

[DirtyWorks]

cycling teams will bump up against (and sometimes cross) the line the UCI sets.

So it seems to me the question is how do you get the UCI to raise the bar?

First, you are assuming the UCI consistently enforces their many rules such that there is a line to cross. Pat and Hein don't follow their own rules. (see World Cycling Productions) From out here in the cheap seats it seems like, if you get popular enough, or seemingly buy-in like Armstrong, there are no rules.

Second, fire Hein and replace him with Patrice Clerc. Fire Pat and replace him with Sylvia Shenk. (I've misspelled her last name) Remove all the authority the UCI has in processing anti-doping cases and pass it to WADA. That would eventually raise the bar after a decade's worth of positives sure to follow.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Dave,

McQuaid and Verbruggen should not alone be demonized. They are (usually) rational actors (not so much McQuaid lately) that had a job to do, manage and grow the sport. If an institution like the UCI can be driven so far off course by one or two people, then the institution itself must be reformed.

Clearly you have not followed the sport very long and don't understand how it works. Either that or you are intentionally covering for those two. Maybe after your third cycle of "cleanest peloton ever" followed by widespread doping scandal and seemingly random anti-doping penalties you will feel different.

Those two have to go and any interests in the sport have to be removed as well.

 

[Joe Banks]

First, you are assuming the UCI consistently enforces their many rules such that there is a line to cross...

This is the whole point. If the system can be corrupted by one or two bad apples then the problem is not solved when you replace them with seemingly trustworthy people. The whole institution needs to be reformed to with a system of check and balances to ensure that rules will be enforced.

When I say raise the bar, I mean in every department, as a functional organization. Not just the public stance on what is and isn't permissible in doping.

The really narrow view to take is to focus on forcing one rider to confess to the public. The slightly less narrow view is to focus on punishing McQuaid and Verbruggen.

You need to make sure it doesn't happen again the next time a person with questionable morals is put in either Johan's or Lance's or Pat's or Hein's position.

 

[Joe Banks]

Clearly you have not followed the sport very long and don't understand how it works. Either that or you are intentionally covering for those two. Maybe after your third cycle of "cleanest peloton ever" followed by widespread doping scandal and seemingly random anti-doping penalties you will feel different.

Those two have to go and any interests in the sport have to be removed as well.

Wrong. I have followed the sport for a very long time.

And I am not saying Pat and Hein shouldn't be put up against the wall. I am saying you can't stop there. And everybody at the Clinic and in the mainstream media does seems to stop there.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Wrong. I have followed the sport for a very long time.

And I am not saying Pat and Hein shouldn't be put up against the wall. I am saying you can't stop there. And everybody at the Clinic and in the mainstream media does seems to stop there.

Good. Great to have one more on the team.

If we are generalizing, then no, the clinic participants with an anti-doping bias definitely understand the UCI's role as enabler.

I agree that mainstream media doesn't follow the story up into the UCI and IOC. They didn't touch the failed cover-up of Contador's positive for whatever reason and won't dare publish a story suggesting the UCI hid Armstrong positives even though that is practically a given.

 

[AcademyCC]

IMO Fat Pat Verdruggen has been the number one target for USADA for a while now. I think that's evident in the way USADA deal with UCI games ie: the two letters Pat wrote during his whiskey bender.

They know they have Armstrong by the short and curly's and want rid of him no doubt. He's just a stepping stone to the big boys who enabled the system to be broken.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcquaid-there-has-never-been-corruption-in-the-uci


"It's impossible to be corrupt in the way we're being accused, in terms of bribery and assisting riders cover up doping positives," McQuaid told Cyclingnews.

"We'd welcome any investigation into the UCI. There has never been corruption in the UCI."

Ok big man - let's go.

 

[FitSsikS]

And I am not saying Pat and Hein shouldn't be put up against the wall. I am saying you can't stop there. And everybody at the Clinic and in the mainstream media does seems to stop there.

You did emphasize "structure" in your post whereas myself and others tend to believe that corrupt individuals are more to blame.

 

[Benotti69]

The Clinicians have backed a call by Adam Meyerson to burn the UCI and all its rotteness to the ground.

We have threads about the UCI here.

When the USADA releases its evidence more threads will start about that evidence.

We regurlarly call for the media to go after these corrupt officials but the doors at UCI are now all closed.

And the omerta is not going to start screaming for change yet, they are waiting to see which side is going to win before attaching the wagons in behind.

 

[Epicycle]

You did emphasize "structure" in your post whereas myself and others tend to believe that corrupt individuals are more to blame.

Yeah when the same people run the sport for 20 years...they are the problem.

The structure, as far as the biopassport goes, is actually pretty good. The problem is that McDruggen, like Conconi and the T-Mobile Freiburg scientists, find it very beneficial to play both sides of the doping issue...they initiate anti-doping measures while at the same time facilitating doping.

What the UCI needs is management that doesn't treat it as their own personal fiefdom and cash cow. Easier said than done but there are people in the sport who could fit that bill.

 

[131313]

Wrong. I have followed the sport for a very long time.

And I am not saying Pat and Hein shouldn't be put up against the wall. I am saying you can't stop there. And everybody at the Clinic and in the mainstream media does seems to stop there.

I agree with the sentiment that the UCI structure itself needs to be changed, but ultimately those in a position to change that structure are a few individuals. After all, they're the ones proposing and writing the rules. The UCI is not a massive organization, so the key to enacting change at that level really is to get the top guys out. And a big part of that has been this whole Lance Armstrong thing...so to your original point that a disproportionate amount of effort has been focused there, I'm not sure I agree.

I do agree that once the UCI's fraud with respect to Armstrong et.al. is fully exposed, it will then by time to move on to affecting real change at the UCI.

 

[rhubroma]

The UCI's job has always been about “image management” and not transparency. There has never been any incentive on their part to produce a bad image, which means allowing a system to expose the rampant doping within the sport effectively and without limits.

At the same time the popular view of "fair play" necessitated that something be done in the interests of producing a good image, for without any controls the sponsors would run away. For no corporate sponsor would willingly invest its name and product line into something that risks tainting its business reputation.

Sport usually provides a good investment return, given its popular appeal, so the corporate sponsors have a strong interest in these markets and only look to the governing bodies like the UCI for "guarantees." Anti-doping protocols are meant to provide these. The UCI has instituted the sporting world’s toughest anti-doping protocols, however, given the widespread nature of doping culture within cycling, it knows that having them work too well is counter-productive and, in the end, menacing if not lethal.

So you have a most delicate and in many ways perverse situation in which cleaning up sport is less advantages, from a business point of view, than playing the game of "image management," which the UCI had made an art of and probably thought it produced its finest masterpiece in supporting the whole Lance legend. All the while reaping all the benefits form actually covering his doping. Until one disgruntled cyclist rebelled. Though the UCI has another card to play, sustain USADA’s motion to strip the Texan of all his titles since 98 and hope that this results in appeasement to deter any further pursuit of it. I’d say, right now, as things stand, they’ve got a 50/50 chance at pulling it off. These are probably better odds that Lance initially was given in beating cancer.

PS. But even this might backfire, since a thwarted Lance may at last start talking just to take revenge against those who protected him for so long. Would love to hear what he has to say on this account. Anbody want to post odds on this happening?

 

[silverrocket]

Paraphrasing: "To reform the beast, chop off the head".

 

[AcademyCC]

For anyone that hasn't read. This is one of cyclismas serious efforts. Pretty sound.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/08/how-do-we-fix-the-uci/

 

[AcademyCC]

Pat McQuaid has been appointed to Evaluation Commission for 2020 Olympics.

Candidates - Istanbul, Tokyo or Madrid.

I wonder do they know he accepts cash and hard liquor?

 

[MacRoadie]

Verdruggen still working his magic:

McQuaid appointed by IOC to 2020 Selection Commission

The UCI obviously han't burned all its matches yet...

PS: So much for that lifetime competition ban.

 

[Boeing]

arguments that start with "you people" aren't arguments at all.

I stopped reading there.

who exactly are you talking too and what do you mean to imply with such word choice?

 

[ElChingon]

arguments that start with "you people" aren't arguments at all.

I stopped reading there.
?

We all know where those quoted words lead to

Focusing on the UCI is equivalent to focusing on your government when you need them.

 

[MarkvW]

The riders are treated like dung. Their careers are both short-lived and precarious in the extreme. Any fair scheme must address this inequity--antidoping is an important, but secondary, concern.

The need for effective unionization is blatantly obvious. Unfortunately this will never happen because bike racers, as a class, are cowardly sheep.

And in the long term, unless the riders assert themselves, the UCI will always be the unchecked boss. And that unchecked power is the source of the corruption that we are seeing now.

So I'm not keeping my eye on the UCI. The real structural problem (and responsibility for the doping itself) lies with the riders.