What a tough suspension

[craig1985]

Linebacker given 4 games

I will give cycling one thing, at least it hasn't got this bad, where a rider gets a five race ban because he took EPO or whatever other substance.

 

[Publicus]

Linebacker given 4 games

I will give cycling one thing, at least it hasn't got this bad, where a rider gets a five race ban because he took EPO or whatever other substance.

This is the benefit of having a strong player's union.

 

[craig1985]

This is the benefit of having a strong player's union.

I wish pro cyclists were more unionised on a lot of issues, but I would hate to see doping turned into more of a farce that it is in NFL, MLB etc.

 

[David Suro]

Cycling, though it has its share of doping problems, is no dirtier than other pro sports.

The efforts of the governing bodies to use stricter testing than other sports and hand out stiffer penalties for cheaters is something to be applauded.

Many threads on this site slam the UCI, WADA, IOC, and other agencies responsible for testing, but cycling can be proud that it deals with dopers in a stricter manner than a one month suspension.

 

[BikeCentric]

The way it works in the NFL is a first offense (positive test) is a 4 game suspension, 2nd offense is an 8 game suspension, third offense is a full season suspension. So what this boils down to is that you're basically "allowed" to test positive once and get away with it. Most players that test positive twice and have to miss 8 games are going to be cut by their teams unless they are an absolute superstar. Any player that gets the third strike is basically out of the league no matter how good they are because no team can afford to have even a superstar on the roster that isn't on the field. So I really wouldn't call their policy a joke, though cycling's testing is certainly more stringent.

 

[BikeCentric]

Cycling, though it has its share of doping problems, is no dirtier than other pro sports.

True, however the main problem with doping in cycling (IMHO) is that it affects the outcome more than in other sports on a relative basis. For example we know that in cycling if a guy is on dope he goes faster. In football to continue this comparison if a wide receiver for example takes steroids well then maybe he can get off the line faster but will his top running speed be faster and none of this affects his ability to catch the ball.

 

[David Suro]

I totally agree.

 

[Epicycle]

Linebacker given 4 games

I will give cycling one thing, at least it hasn't got this bad, where a rider gets a five race ban because he took EPO or whatever other substance.

It used to be that way in cycling. There was a time you could get a time penalty for doping. Those kinds of penalties obviously didn't accomplish what they needed to.

 

[pmcg76]

True, however the main problem with doping in cycling (IMHO) is that it affects the outcome more than in other sports on a relative basis. For example we know that in cycling if a guy is on dope he goes faster. In football to continue this comparison if a wide receiver for example takes steroids well then maybe he can get off the line faster but will his top running speed be faster and none of this affects his ability to catch the ball.

Dont agree at all. Lets take tennis however, in a 5 hour match, stamina is just as important as technique, once you get tired physically, the first thing that suffers is technique.

I was wathcing Champions League last nite, in the players statistics they were running on average 8-9Kms(5miles), I know its not always at a fast pace but being able to make that fianl sprint, last ditch tackle etc when fatigue is all important. It can help decide a game so when a athlete is doping, it can make all the difference.

Obviously its not as important in technique heavy sports but then baseball is a technical sport and they have plenty of drugs problems.

 

[Publicus]

I wish pro cyclists were more unionised on a lot of issues, but I would hate to see doping turned into more of a farce that it is in NFL, MLB etc.

The other point is that NFL players make a heck of lot more money than cyclist. So the loss of 4 games worth of salary may be just as meaningful as a two-year suspension.

 

[fatandfast]

True, however the main problem with doping in cycling (IMHO) is that it affects the outcome more than in other sports on a relative basis. For example we know that in cycling if a guy is on dope he goes faster. In football to continue this comparison if a wide receiver for example takes steroids well then maybe he can get off the line faster but will his top running speed be faster and none of this affects his ability to catch the ball.

Plain wrong. Top level ping pong players would benefit from PEDs. Anybody who has every tried to ride a bull,play 4 rounds of golf 4 days in a row, or pitch a baseball 90mph 100 times over 3 or 4 hours can benefit from a drug that gives you more capacity, almost anything at the top professional level. The NFL is a human wasteland with bodies that don't work off the field. Guys in their 30's and 40's that can't walk without pain, each time you read about Gene Upshaw you know he is in the pocket of the owners and the league. Drug use in the NFL is the rule not the exception. The lack of Olympic profile in Pro football makes the testing almost obscure and the league doesn't want to know. Alzado died for nothing, cycling would be average if the NFL,NBA,MLB,NHL had the same testing regime as pro cycling.

 

[BigBoat]

Many threads on this site slam the UCI, WADA, IOC, and other agencies responsible for testing, but cycling can be proud that it deals with dopers in a stricter manner than a one month suspension.

Well I slam the UCI for doing nothing about effective doping methodology (like blood transfusions of your own blood) which forces most riders to dope, then SLAM one or two here and there for 2 years.

 

[ChrisE]

The other point is that NFL players make a heck of lot more money than cyclist. So the loss of 4 games worth of salary may be just as meaningful as a two-year suspension.

In spite of the irony of this question...are you on drugs?

Somebody losing 1/4 of a years salary vs 2 years worth of salary is "just as meaningful"? Pass the sauce.

 

[workingclasshero]

In spite of the irony of this question...are you on drugs?

Somebody losing 1/4 of a years salary vs 2 years worth of salary is "just as meaningful"? Pass the sauce.

especially as if you're on mega bucks, who cares about missing out on a quarter of a year's salary.

aye, some of what that lad's drinking please

 

[TRDean]

Plain wrong. Top level ping pong players would benefit from PEDs. Anybody who has every tried to ride a bull,play 4 rounds of golf 4 days in a row, or pitch a baseball 90mph 100 times over 3 or 4 hours can benefit from a drug that gives you more capacity, almost anything at the top professional level. The NFL is a human wasteland with bodies that don't work off the field. Guys in their 30's and 40's that can't walk without pain, each time you read about Gene Upshaw you know he is in the pocket of the owners and the league. Drug use in the NFL is the rule not the exception. The lack of Olympic profile in Pro football makes the testing almost obscure and the league doesn't want to know. Alzado died for nothing, cycling would be average if the NFL,NBA,MLB,NHL had the same testing regime as pro cycling.

I think Gene Upshaw died last year...

 

[Hugh Januss]

I think Gene Upshaw died last year...

Yup, Pancreatic cancer at 63..............

 

[fatandfast]

Upshaw fought for what he thought was best. I wouldn't want people to think I do all the time but I did watch Lou Dobbs last night because Harry Carson was on talking about head injuries in football and a close friend of mine has done lots of helmet research. They talked about another piece maybe in the WSJ or SI that shows some of the long term affects of a sport where smashing your head is by design. It was always weird to read about bicycle helmet research, most makers say don't wear a hat underneath and a sound design should be round in shape not pointy like most popular helmets are currently. The cyclists union fought hard for helmets to be optional for really hot days but gave up when race promoters would not bend.Upshaw 's legacy will be turn a blind eye to drug use and the user was a victim, just trying to keep his job.

 

[BikeCentric]

Plain wrong. Top level ping pong players would benefit from PEDs. Anybody who has every tried to ride a bull,play 4 rounds of golf 4 days in a row, or pitch a baseball 90mph 100 times over 3 or 4 hours can benefit from a drug that gives you more capacity, almost anything at the top professional level. The NFL is a human wasteland with bodies that don't work off the field. Guys in their 30's and 40's that can't walk without pain, each time you read about Gene Upshaw you know he is in the pocket of the owners and the league. Drug use in the NFL is the rule not the exception. The lack of Olympic profile in Pro football makes the testing almost obscure and the league doesn't want to know. Alzado died for nothing, cycling would be average if the NFL,NBA,MLB,NHL had the same testing regime as pro cycling.

Look Bro, nowhere in my post did I state that there wasn't a benefit from using PED's in other sports. I made a statement about the relative effect PED's have on the outcome of different sporting events and nowhere in your rambling response did you even address that point. So please don't tell me that I'm "plain wrong" and then not only not address my point but go off on straw man tangents.

Now having said that I fully agree with you that the NFL has seriously negative long-term effects on peoples bodies but I think this has a lot more to do with the high-impact nature of the game regardless of the PED issue. That game is going to screw people up long-term regardless of how dirty they are; and I also agree with you that the majority of the players are probably on drugs; likely major corticoid abuse going on there.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The way it works in the NFL is a first offense (positive test) is a 4 game suspension, 2nd offense is an 8 game suspension, third offense is a full season suspension. So what this boils down to is that you're basically "allowed" to test positive once and get away with it. Most players that test positive twice and have to miss 8 games are going to be cut by their teams unless they are an absolute superstar. Any player that gets the third strike is basically out of the league no matter how good they are because no team can afford to have even a superstar on the roster that isn't on the field. So I really wouldn't call their policy a joke, though cycling's testing is certainly more stringent.

Actually this reminds me about Dexter Manley. How many times did he got a life ban and still was allowed to be back? What about Joe Montana positiv before being allowed to throw 5 TDs in a SB? How about the union (NFLPA) which can decide which drugs are tested for and which not?

Really, Cycling is much cleaner then ProAmSports (actually NFL/NBA/MB is not clean at all if you consider game fixing too).

Tough cycling took a huge step back since Clerc is released from ASO and the AFLD dont test the TdF alone like 2008, its at least trying.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Look Bro, nowhere in my post did I state that there wasn't a benefit from using PED's in other sports. I made a statement about the relative effect PED's have on the outcome of different sporting events and nowhere in your rambling response did you even address that point. So please don't tell me that I'm "plain wrong" and then not only not address my point but go off on straw man tangents.

Now having said that I fully agree with you that the NFL has seriously negative long-term effects on peoples bodies but I think this has a lot more to do with the high-impact nature of the game regardless of the PED issue. That game is going to screw people up long-term regardless of how dirty they are; and I also agree with you that the majority of the players are probably on drugs; likely major corticoid abuse going on there.

Take Babe Parilli for example: No pain or drug side-effects after 18 years in the NFL. Actually the "dirtyness" decides about life after Football. Too much pain-killers, numbing shots during games, and steroid use make the career shorter. At least they make life miserable after the glory days.

By using all those above named products and methods, it actually affects the outcome of games too (a certain superstar playing on a numbed shot instead of sitting out for example). But its nothing compared to how birds effect the outcomes of games during placed bets in Vegas or the local mobs spoortsbook.

Compared to all this, cycling is a clean heaven with true results/outcomes at the GTs.

P.S.: Someone said a 4-Game-Suspension is like a 2-Year-ban. Thats a joke. Most of the money by NFL-Players is made by signining -and roster bonuses. So a 4 game ban is more like a 2 game ban...

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Upshaw fought for what he thought was best. I wouldn't want people to think I do all the time but I did watch Lou Dobbs last night because Harry Carson was on talking about head injuries in football and a close friend of mine has done lots of helmet research. They talked about another piece maybe in the WSJ or SI that shows some of the long term affects of a sport where smashing your head is by design. It was always weird to read about bicycle helmet research, most makers say don't wear a hat underneath and a sound design should be round in shape not pointy like most popular helmets are currently. The cyclists union fought hard for helmets to be optional for really hot days but gave up when race promoters would not bend.Upshaw 's legacy will be turn a blind eye to drug use and the user was a victim, just trying to keep his job.

I thought they gave up when Kivilev died.

 

[fatandfast]

It is really hard for me to see a picture of a guy that did not deserve to take the field with Walter Payton, even harder is that BC I agree with you and if I was trampling anybody sorry. Cycling should not be an Olympic sport. @ 10-20 days of judging would be way too much to show who is the best.Our best NBA,NHL and MLB players should also bow out and let others cheat to win. At my peak it was 3k per month and not to exceed 1500 in prize money per day. Did we really need to add pro bike racers to the fold? Bike racing is a sport that should keep the pro and amateur ranks completely separate. Seems dumb but 2 different kinds of riders. The blend is really ****ing things up

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Cycling, though it has its share of doping problems, is no dirtier than other pro sports.

The efforts of the governing bodies to use stricter testing than other sports and hand out stiffer penalties for cheaters is something to be applauded.

Many threads on this site slam the UCI, WADA, IOC, and other agencies responsible for testing, but cycling can be proud that it deals with dopers in a stricter manner than a one month suspension.

I do agree. I applaud the agencies for being bold enough to try and clean up the sport.