What about the ladies?

[Hugh Januss]

So having become used to reading in the Clinic a thorough dissection of just what sort of doping produced whatever success anyone (male) has had, usually within minutes of the results being posted, I'm a bit surprised that there is not a single mention anywhere here about that race that just took place in France. The Tour de France Femme avec zwift. So is it common knowledge that women don't dope, or is it rude to mention the possibility, or do the denizens of the clinic just not care that much about women's racing?

 

[Ripper]

So having become used to reading in the Clinic a thorough dissection of just what sort of doping produced whatever success anyone (male) has had, usually within minutes of the results being posted, I'm a bit surprised that there is not a single mention anywhere here about that race that just took place in France. The Tour de France Femme avec zwift. So is it common knowledge that women don't dope, or is it rude to mention the possibility, or do the denizens of the clinic just not care that much about women's racing?

Kopecky was certainly jacked. Not sure on what

Vollering is the new alien.

SD Jerx are sort of taking the pi$$

 

[meat puppet]

I think the relative silence is due to many things. For me the most important one is that there has been less historical data and thus less rules of thumbs and less context to assess performances available for persons who for a lack of a better expression are non-specialists.

Per Lanterne Rouge Vollering did the fastest ever ca. 50min effort on the Tourmalet. This was on top of the 35min-ish of prefatiguing on the Aspin. And after her Tourmalet attack, Vollering almost matched the fastest ever 20min.

I mean, it raised my eyebrow for sure.

 

[F_Cance]

I always thought that the situation is a bit more tame in women's cycling, but what's happening at SD in the last two seasons really changed my mind. I think there is more to it than just buying the biggest talents. Wiebes couldn't climb a bridge before joining them, Reusser was more or less a pure TT person and now might as well be considered a top 5 climber when really going for it despite being bulkier compared to others. Then there are Kopecky and Vollering making YET ANOTHER unbelievable step up.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I always thought that the situation is a bit more tame in women's cycling, but what's happening at SD in the last two seasons really changed my mind. I think there is more to it than just buying the biggest talents. Wiebes couldn't climb a bridge before joining them, Reusser was more or less a pure TT person and now might as well be considered a top 5 climber when really going for it despite being bulkier compared to others. Then there are Kopecky and Vollering making YET ANOTHER unbelievable step up.

I agree regarding Wiebes and Kopecky, but Reusser wasn't a bad climber before joining the team, and I definitely expected that she could improve at a stronger team. I was actually underwhelmed by some of her climbing performances last year (although because she crashed out of the Tour we never got to see what she was capable of in that race).


My overall impression is that there's less doping in the women's peloton, and that whatever is going on among the men will take a little longer before it gets introduced to the female riders, but I wouldn't exactly be surprised to learn that it's worse than that. We've seen the rise in performances after lockdown in 2020 (especially from male riders, but not exclusively), and with the increased focus on the women's side of the sport, I very much doubt there'll be a big bust anytime soon.

Regarding Vollering's performance on Tourmalet, Antoine Vayer has claimed, that Joane Somarriba and Edite Pučinskaitė climbed Tourmalet about 20 seconds faster during the 2000 Grande Boucle Féminine, but I assume Vollering's pace in the final 6 km was higher than what they achieved 23 years ago. I haven't found proof they also did Aspin back then, but given that the average speed was lower, they must have climbed something before Tourmalet. I can't say whether an EPO fueled Fabiana Luperini did it even faster in the 90s.

 

[Red Rick]

My guess is there's much less "interest" in writing or reading about doping in the womens Tour, in addition to there being far less hard data to compare it to, plus the weak denial of 'it just got more professional' is indeed slightly stronger for womens cycling.

 

[Salvarani]

My guess is there's much less "interest" in writing or reading about doping in the womens Tour, in addition to there being far less hard data to compare it to, plus the weak denial of 'it just got more professional' is indeed slightly stronger for womens cycling.

In every sense it has probably gotten more "professional".

The sport has grown. The interest in it. More and more races being broadcasted. More sponsors and money coming into it. Things that are bound to spawn a rapid development.

 

[the delgados]

This brings back memories of Genevieve Jeanson.
I had a huge crush on her, even though her results were ludicrous: Winning races by 20 minutes after jumping solo from the gun; placing third in a men's pro race, etc. etc.
That all came crashing down when it was revealed she was abused in every imaginable way by her coach. Same coach who plied her with doping products and berated her for being fat. That's cray cray.
It's all fun and games until you realize what goes on behind the curtain.
I don't know, but I imagine the top tier riders at least are all in.

 

[Aimar16]

That canadian woman has admitted to using EPO since the age of 16, she is one of the most disgusting cheater in the history of the sport

 

[Ripper]

This brings back memories of Genevieve Jeanson.
I had a huge crush on her, even though her results were ludicrous: Winning races by 20 minutes after jumping solo from the gun; placing third in a men's pro race, etc. etc.
That all came crashing down when it was revealed she was abused in every imaginable way by her coach. Same coach who plied her with doping products and berated her for being fat. That's cray cray.
It's all fun and games until you realize what goes on behind the curtain.
I don't know, but I imagine the top tier riders at least are all in.

Yes, Genevieve was doping huge time and has gone through quite the process of opening up since those revelations. She seems to be in a good place now.

 

[the delgados]

That canadian woman has admitted to using EPO since the age of 16, she is one of the most disgusting cheater in the history of the sport

She is no more "disgusting" than anyone who uses PED's.
In fact, as you said, she was 16 years-old. She was managed by an egomaniacal control-freak of a human being.
Perspective is key when thinking about trashing a complete stranger.

 

[Sciatic]

That canadian woman has admitted to using EPO since the age of 16, she is one of the most disgusting cheater in the history of the sport

Interesting that you jump on her as the “most disgusting” of all the dopers, given that her coach who was procuring the drugs and driving her training was physically and sexually abusing her from early teens. I suppose you could say “she should have just gotten another coach” or she should have just quit—but abusive relationships, especially when it starts at an early age, are very difficult to leave. Furthermore, although she initially denied it, before long she confessed it all in a broadcast news conference. How many male cyclists caught doping, who’ve served suspensions, rarely admit to the full truth ( my favorite is Landa, who has admitted taking pretty much any PRDs available, yet still denies that he ever took T during the Tour, even though the that was the PED that got him kicked out) Many of those male riders are considered “ambassadors of the sport” or manage teams or broadcast races.

But obviously something about her story really got to you, but it’s hard to fathom why that would be?

 

[Aimar16]

She is no more "disgusting" than anyone who uses PED's.
In fact, as you said, she was 16 years-old. She was managed by an egomaniacal control-freak of a human being.
Perspective is key when thinking about trashing a complete stranger.

She's been using PEDs non-stop from a young age to adulthood for eight years, until she finally gets caught and banned for life. To blame someone else (coach, doctor) because she cheats until her mid-twenties is a very weak excuse.

Interesting that you jump on her as the “most disgusting” of all the dopers, given that her coach who was procuring the drugs and driving her training was physically and sexually abusing her from early teens. I suppose you could say “she should have just gotten another coach” or she should have just quit—but abusive relationships, especially when it starts at an early age, are very difficult to leave. Furthermore, although she initially denied it, before long she confessed it all in a broadcast news conference. How many male cyclists caught doping, who’ve served suspensions, rarely admit to the full truth ( my favorite is Landa, who has admitted taking pretty much any PRDs available, yet still denies that he ever took T during the Tour, even though the that was the PED that got him kicked out) Many of those male riders are considered “ambassadors of the sport” or manage teams or broadcast races.

But obviously something about her story really got to you, but it’s hard to fathom why that would be?

She admitted it two years after she was banned for life and the appeal was not accepted. How brave..

I don't believe a word of any of those confessions where someone cheats all their life but makes themselves look like a victim. She is a fraud who has significantly harmed many women who have played the game clean. So, I have no sympathy for her.

 

[Escarabajo]

That canadian woman has admitted to using EPO since the age of 16, she is one of the most disgusting cheater in the history of the sport

At least She admitted it. There has been probably hundreds of cyclists who have done the same and have not admitted anything.

 

[Aimar16]

At least She admitted it. There has been probably hundreds of cyclists who have done the same and have not admitted anything.

She was banned for life and all her appeals were rejected. This is not an admission, but a statement of fact that everyone already knew.

 

[Sciatic]

She's been using PEDs non-stop from a young age to adulthood for eight years, until she finally gets caught and banned for life. To blame someone else (coach, doctor) because she cheats until her mid-twenties is a very weak excuse.



She admitted it two years after she was banned for life and the appeal was not accepted. How brave..

I don't believe a word of any of those confessions where someone cheats all their life but makes themselves look like a victim. She is a fraud who has significantly harmed many women who have played the game clean. So, I have no sympathy for her.

So in your mind she’s like many others who have doped for years, made excuses, and then got caught. Just what is that got caught in your craw about her?

 

[Aimar16]

So in your mind she’s like many others who have doped for years, made excuses, and then got caught. Just what is that got caught in your craw about her?

I've already said that to me it's disgusting the way she told her story of being a victim and survivor while taking PEDs for 8 years and smiling for the cameras after first places. If someone cheated for that long, then she is a master of manipulation and lying.

 

[Sciatic]

I've already said that to me it's disgusting the way she told her story of being a victim and survivor while taking PEDs for 8 years and smiling for the cameras after first places. If someone cheated for that long, then she is a master of manipulation and lying.

Yup that’s what doping is — manipulating and lying. By every single one of them. And “cheated for that long”: how long are cyclist’s careers ? — that’s how long some have been doping. . And you doubt she was a victim of abuse. The coach that abused was later arrested for domestic violence against his wife.

But I’ll stop commenting—you’ve already decided she’s a devil among all the clean cyclists.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I've already said that to me it's disgusting the way she told her story of being a victim and survivor while taking PEDs for 8 years and smiling for the cameras after first places. If someone cheated for that long, then she is a master of manipulation and lying.

You don't think that a 16 year old girl could be controlled manipulated and abused by an older male coach?

 

[the delgados]

I've already said that to me it's disgusting the way she told her story of being a victim and survivor while taking PEDs for 8 years and smiling for the cameras after first places. If someone cheated for that long, then she is a master of manipulation and lying.

I'm genuinely curious to know if you have a personal beef with Genevieve.
Otherwise, you seem to have an unusual hate-on for a stranger. Of all the admitted dopers in the world, you're zeroing in on a person who was abused in more ways than one since she was a child.
That's odd.

 

[hulkgogan]

It was a complicated situation and the problem is, it is always in Genevieve's best interest to be the victim and downplay her agency in this.

What I can say as an elite Canadian rider at that time, is that Genevieve was absolutely loved by Canadian Cycling and all the pundits even though she was doing crazy things like placing top 10 tt times against the pro men as a 19 year old. No flags raised. "Greatest talent ever". All the Kool-Aid had been drunk. As usual. They never learn.

 

[the delgados]

It was a complicated situation and the problem is, it is always in Genevieve's best interest to be the victim and downplay her agency in this.

What I can say as an elite Canadian rider at that time, is that Genevieve was absolutely loved by Canadian Cycling and all the pundits even though she was doing crazy things like placing top 10 tt times against the pro men as a 19 year old. No flags raised. "Greatest talent ever". All the Kool-Aid had been drunk. As usual. They never learn.

True that.
The stories about what happened to her have been well documented and shouldn't be downplayed, but I understand what you're saying.
Genevieve is one example of many riders from many nations who have been propped up as a shining example of athletic superiority by the powers that be -- i.e. national cycling associations, abusive "coaches", media, etc.
The "They" are everywhere. Ironically, Genevieve was flagged for abnormally high red blood cell levels the night before the World Championships in her home country.
Oops.

 

[proffate]

Sofia Gomez Villafane seems like a doper to me based on:

• personality (ego)
• means (rich parents)
• connections (partner dopes)
• progression (from mediocre to dominant in late 20s, albeit against fields that are not world class --- but hey, fat cat 3s dope for gran fondos)
• lack of testing
• love of the word "professionalism"

But yea, I don't think the clinic cares much about doping at anything besides the highest human level, which means the male TDF.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Sofia Gomez Villafane seems like a doper to me based on:

• personality (ego)
• means (rich parents)
• connections (partner dopes)
• progression (from mediocre to dominant in late 20s, albeit against fields that are not world class --- but hey, fat cat 3s dope for gran fondos)
• lack of testing
• love of the word "professionalism"

But yea, I don't think the clinic cares much about doping at anything besides the highest human level, which means the male TDF.

Curious to see your proof that Swenson is a doper. Or is it, win a bike race -doper!

 

[the delgados]

Rather than "What About the Ladies?" maybe the thread title should be changed to "What About the Personal Beefs Against the Ladies?"

Genevieve Jeanson never reached Tour de France levels, but she beat some male pro riders, so there's that!
This form of outing is old-school. I've never heard of Sofia Gomez Villifane, but it serves as a reminder that low-level dopers don't have the same support system of TdF riders.
Just like Genevieve Jeanson, it seems that riders like Sofia are on their own when it comes to dealing with accusations of doping.
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Sofia is on the gear, but the lack of attention is just a reflection of the funds put into dealing with stuff like this.
Go Sofia! Make as much as you can while you can!