What way is your brakes

[deboat]

I went to a local bike shop to buy a complete new road bike. This is a first for me as I always have had secondhand road bikes. The bike I wanted was about €2300. I see that the brakes are the wrong way around. (I am from Australia) So I asked if they can switch the brakes so that the front brake is on the right lever. He says "Nein" (I am living in Salzburg now) He says the brakes are not made to be like that and it could be dangerous. MMmm
Yes I have the skills to do it myself but then I need to buy bar tape and well it is a new bike. I backed out of the shop without a new bike.

I am in the motorcycle industry so the front brake is on the right lever. Always!

WHY?? Do people have the brakes on the "other side" is beyond me.
When I look at a road bike front caliper the mounting point of the cable is on the right side so that the brake cable coming from the left side has a nicer routing. So maybe I have it wrong with wanting the front brake on the right lever.

What side does your country have the brakes from new mounted on? In Australia it is law if you sell a new bike the brake must be on the right lever. I don't know if that is the law here in Austria.

 

[Master50]

well you can't have the clutch and throttle in the same hand and there is no foot brake on a bicycle. Moat people are right hand dominant and in a panic stop the idea is you grab more brake in an emergency with your right hand so panic stops are safer with the front on the left which is by far the most universal way to connect the brakes. In Italy with so many scooters it is probably the only country where right levers are commonly connected to the front brake so the motorcycle method does carry over to bikes in some places. That said, even in Italy the bikes are factory connected left lever to the front brake.
As for the law in Australia? I have never heard that. From the few Australian racers I have met and seen over the years I have never noted any difference in the brake hook up so I am sceptical of your claim. Why would Australia, a not so bike freindly country have a law about brakes that is contrary to universal practice?

 

[JayKosta]

In USA the 'standard arrangement' is that the lefthand lever is for front brake, righthand is for the rear brake.

The cable routing on bicycles is usually designed for the left/front arrangement, and changing the cable routing might reduce brake performance.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[BroDeal]

In USA the 'standard arrangement' is that the lefthand lever is for front brake, righthand is for the rear brake.

The cable routing on bicycles is usually designed for the left/front arrangement, and changing the cable routing might reduce brake performance.

You have to take into account that Australia is on the bottom of the world so everything is backwards.

 

[fatsprintking]

99% of Australian bikes have the brakes on the right. People that have ridden a lot overseas often go what we call "European" style, as that is how mechanics set the bikes up and so you just take what you are given - it only takes a few rides to get used to it. Exceptions to this are people like Cadel who still rides in the Aussie style.

I rode European for all of my racing days, but am happy to go back to Aussie style now that I just pootle around.(Thats what all australian bikes are sold like) As with the OP, I have been involved with motorcycles and it seems stupid to run a left brake on he pushy when you are used to wanting all of the control you can get when you are late braking from 250kph with six piston calipers.

You also have to remember that Aussies drive on here opposite side of the road so everything is a bit turned around down here.

 

[2beeDammed]

I'm Australian and I ride 'right is rear' on the road, but it is not the norm. I once heard an argument that went along the lines of what side of the road your country drives on and your ability to hand signal a turn and be able to use the front brake. Funny to note that few years back I put a mountain bike together to race after a good decade off MTB and set it up the same as my road bike (right is rear). Anyway I kept going over the bars grabbing the wrong brake, seems there was a deep ingrained reaction/response that just came back with out thinking about it. You see when I raced MTB years ago my brakes where set up the 'Australian way' right is front and my instinct has never forgotten.It was only because when I made the switch to road I purchased a bike from Europe and it came set up 'the European way' and I never changed it.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

I took up bicycling to rehab from a leg I'd broken grievously (comminuted, segmented, blah-blah-blah) in an MX crash. Rather than trying to un-learn all those years riding motorcycles, I moved the front brake to the right handlebar, CX-style. I still do it with every bicycle I own. Hydraulic discs made this a piece of pie on the MTBs but road bikes still can be a challenge. Most cable interference problems can be resolved with a brake noodle made for MTB V-brakes. Most noodles are either 45° or 90° but I have bought a tubing bending hand tool so I can customize the bend about 20° more acutely or obtusely, as suits my purpose.

...Moat people are right hand dominant and in a panic stop the idea is you grab more brake in an emergency with your right hand so panic stops are safer with the front on the left which is by far the most universal way to connect the brakes....

That is pure bovine excrement. If you are right handed, on the whole, you do everything more deftly and with greater precision with the right hand than with the left. Unless and until you have ridden with the brake on the wrong (left) side enough to condition yourself to it, you will always operate the right-hand brake with more precision and dexterity. It's not for nothing the Latin word for right (as in right-hand) is dexter.

 

[180mmCrank]

Someone more tec savvy than I may be able to find the two previous threads that covered (and researched) this.

If I remember correctly every explanation for the different arrangements proved bogus - including any claims about safety. In other words it's really just personal preference.

I could imagine the possibility that swapping cables might be a problem on some makes of bikes but not any that I have ever ridden or maintained (in over 40 years!).

(Oh AND the right way is to have the front brake on the left side - obviously!)

 

[Archibald]

have bought bikes (road and MTB) here in Aus and also in the UK - all have the right as the front.
Aus most likely just following the UK, like the road side useage... US, etc reject the UK, so won't do it their way

 

[BroDeal]

That is pure bovine excrement. If you are right handed, on the whole, you do everything more deftly and with greater precision with the right hand than with the left. Unless and until you have ridden with the brake on the wrong (left) side enough to condition yourself to it, you will always operate the right-hand brake with more precision and dexterity. It's not for nothing the Latin word for right (as in right-hand) is dexter.

This sounds like an argument for a right handed person to have the rear brake on the right hand since the rear is used more and is used to moderate speed by feathering the brake. The front brake is used more for hard braking so delicate control is not important.

This is why Campy uses a single pivot rear brake and a double pivot front one.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

You have to take into account that Australia is on the bottom of the world so everything is backwards.

That's funny right there.

 

[knewcleardaze]

I went to a local bike shop to buy a complete new road bike. This is a first for me as I always have had secondhand road bikes. The bike I wanted was about €2300. I see that the brakes are the wrong way around. (I am from Australia) So I asked if they can switch the brakes so that the front brake is on the right lever. He says "Nein" (I am living in Salzburg now) He says the brakes are not made to be like that and it could be dangerous. MMmm
Yes I have the skills to do it myself but then I need to buy bar tape and well it is a new bike. I backed out of the shop without a new bike.

I am in the motorcycle industry so the front brake is on the right lever. Always!

WHY?? Do people have the brakes on the "other side" is beyond me.
When I look at a road bike front caliper the mounting point of the cable is on the right side so that the brake cable coming from the left side has a nicer routing. So maybe I have it wrong with wanting the front brake on the right lever.

What side does your country have the brakes from new mounted on? In Australia it is law if you sell a new bike the brake must be on the right lever. I don't know if that is the law here in Austria.

Daggone, you're buying a 2300 Euro bike and they don't want to set the brakes to your liking? I'd walk out too.

 

[ElChingon]

You should have your bike setup like you want no matter what the shop says, if they don't do it I'm sure you can find one that will, or build your own bike.

 

[badboyberty]

And yes, the whole hand signal thing is the reason why it's encoded in consumer standards differently depending on where you live in the world. And although there seems little difference in bike handling skills between lefties and righties, a quick survey suggests those who use left hand for the front are statistically more likely to start a new topic on this subject than the left hand rear crowd.

 

[jennifergibb]

I went to a local bike shop to buy a complete new road bike. This is a first for me as I always have had secondhand road bikes

closeout dirt bike gear

 

[Boeing]

Best thread title ever

 

[RidingSeed]

The front brake is used more for hard braking so delicate control is not important.

In Romania it's left for rear brake and right for front brake, but I personally don't use the front brake that much, I'm just killing the rear brake. It's been years since I pressed the right lever.

 

[RedheadDane]

Front brake is... right? I think... (rarely use it)
Back brake is a pedal-brake...

I guess for bikes where both brakes are "hand-brakes" the back brake would be to the left.

Or... the other way around, coz I don't actually remember where my front brake is...

 

[fatsprintking]

In Romania it's left for rear brake and right for front brake, but I personally don't use the front brake that much, I'm just killing the rear brake. It's been years since I pressed the right lever.

There is a reason why motorcycles have two big disks at the front and a little one at the back. its because 80% of your stopping comes from the front. The reason campagnolo uses a single pivot rear brake is that any extra power in the brake would be a waste as it would just lock up as weight transfers forward under brakes They can make a lighter brake and prevent reduce brake lock up in the one hit.

You will stop a lot quicker if you use the front brake....

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

This sounds like an argument for a right handed person to have the rear brake on the right hand since the rear is used more and is used to moderate speed by feathering the brake. The front brake is used more for hard braking so delicate control is not important....

Quite the contrary. Maximum braking power is achieved at the point of impending lockup. Finding that lever pressure that puts the front brake mere grams short of lockup is best achieved with the more dexterous hand. You are wasting a small measure of ultimate braking potential by not operating the front brake with the most dexterous hand (a drawback which, admittedly, can be overcome with sufficient practice).

...This is why Campy uses a single pivot rear brake and a double pivot front one.

And you have internal Campagnolo documents attesting to this? Are you sure it couldn't be because the single pivot brake saves a few grams in weight, and braking precision at the rear is not so crucial because a brief lockup there rarely comes to grief?

Right hand/front brake long has been the Italian fashion as well, which you will note in old photos of Coppi, Cippolini, Gimondi and Pantani, el al.

 

[Elagabalus]

...Moat people are right hand dominant and in a panic stop the idea is you grab ...

You callin' us right-handers water trolls?!! Is that what you're saying?!!

There is a reason why motorcycles have two big disks at the front and a little one at the back. its because 80% of your stopping comes from the front. The reason campagnolo uses a single pivot rear brake is that any extra power in the brake would be a waste as it would just lock up as weight transfers forward under brakes They can make a lighter brake and prevent reduce brake lock up in the one hit.

You will stop a lot quicker if you use the front brake....

Quite the contrary. Maximum braking power is achieved at the point of impending lockup. Finding that lever pressure that puts the front brake mere grams short of lockup is best achieved with the more dexterous hand. You are wasting a small measure of ultimate braking potential by not operating the front brake with the most dexterous hand (a drawback which, admittedly, can be overcome with sufficient practice).


And you have internal Campagnolo documents attesting to this? Are you sure it couldn't be because the single pivot brake saves a few grams in weight, and braking precision at the rear is not so crucial because a brief lockup there rarely comes to grief?

Alas, guys, I wouldn't bother... their minds are made up don't bother them with the facts ...

Just be comforted in the knowledge that you will positively own the descents on your local parcours by braking late (with the fr. brake, of course) and passing all the naysayers, flicking it into the corner and simply riding away ...

Right hand/front brake long has been the Italian fashion as well, which you will note in old photos of Coppi, Cippolini, Gimondi and Pantani, el al.

And Moser! Don't forget Moser!

 

[hiero2]

In USA the 'standard arrangement' is that the lefthand lever is for front brake, righthand is for the rear brake.

The cable routing on bicycles is usually designed for the left/front arrangement, and changing the cable routing might reduce brake performance.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

Might? Nope, won't. Not so long as you don't do something you shouldn't do anyway, like kinking the cable housing. Edit - there might be a combination of internal routing and brifters where housing friction might be more likely to increase because of changing routing - but I seriously doubt it. However, I would look for bustedknuckle or Magnetico to chirp on this - since their experience is direct and broader than mine.

Moving the thread to Bikes and Gear.

 

[hiero2]

. . . Moat people are right hand dominant and in a panic stop the idea is you grab more brake in an emergency with your right hand so panic stops are safer with the front on the left which is by far the most universal way to connect the brakes. . . .

. . .

That is pure bovine excrement. If you are right handed, on the whole, you do everything more deftly and with greater precision with the right hand . . ..

I would be a little more careful how you toss out that idea about excrement. Speaking in both roles - as a poster and as a mod. As a poster, I know that masters50 is repeating information/thinking which is rational, and likely available from old usegroup posts and FAQ. Please do remember that for less experienced users, there would not BE precision in a panic stop - that is something that experience alone provides.

On the other hand, your argument is also valid, especially for experienced users. But, for instance, take my wife - a bicylist for 20 years, but I still would not trust her abilities in a panic stop to control the bicycle. She just never had the physical ability/strength/talent combo. And she wouldn't be atypical of riders who are "recreational".

As a mod, I don't like to see people calling bs. I strikes me as being a little too close to "personal attack". FYI.

 

[Master50]

"Originally Posted by StyrbjornSterki
And you have internal Campagnolo documents attesting to this? Are you sure it couldn't be because the single pivot brake saves a few grams in weight, and braking precision at the rear is not so crucial because a brief lockup there rarely comes to grief?"

It was part of Campagnolo's marketing so hardly an internal document. The 2 points Campy makes is the rear brake needs less ultimate stopping power to lock up the rear wheel. Yes a single pivot brake is also lighter but it is far easier to lock up the rear especially once the front is engaged and the effective traction has moved to the more effective braking wheel (front). In fact you almost say it but seems you need to make it a smelly stink under our noses.

My right hand dominant statement might be pure bovine .... but it is what I have heard so??

You need to learn a little respect for the posters here. You are not likely a braking genius and calling BS is a lot disrespectful. If you have an opinion or are an expert great, we are looking for the wisdom that comes from discussion but punkin me is crap on it's own. I am prepared to alter my opinions with evidence but calling me out still requires supporting argument. A person practicing brake modulation near the threshold of traction and brake force is a skill most don't explore given the obvious outcome of loss of front wheel traction. You have hardly offered any compelling reason why the thought I had repeated was Crap. I get that my right hand has greater control and dexterity being right handed, but a panic is a primal reaction that probably is not processed in my intellect but in my primitive brain. I prefer to have the right hand control over the rear brake where I can release pressure as it skids the rear wheel so yes I am using that famous control to modulate the rear brake where as you say the skid has less dire consequence.

Threshold braking on a bicycle? I know this is a skill that maybe Valentino Rossi is an expert at on a motorcycle and I would suppose he gets a lot of practice at it but a bike's braking system lacks that fine predictability especially with carbon rims and this is a big selling point from the disk brake pundits.
I might see a rider that has a lot of courage and loves to descend at the limits of traction testing his limits but I am guessing it is not a skill available to many pros or even practiced. I have no doubt a few guys can do bicycle stoppies with rim brakes but I have not seen it. I do see lots of bicycle stoppies on bikes with front Disk brakes.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

...As a poster, I know that masters50 is repeating information/thinking which is rational,...

So let me be sure I understand this.

You think it is rational to contend that:

decades before auto manufacturers were required to install passenger safety belts in their cars,

decades before cigarette makers and firearms manufacturers were forced to affix labels to their products warning they were dangerous to use,

in an era when shoe shops had fluoroscopes so customers could see the bones in their feet to check the fit of their new shoes,

in an era when kids could buy chemistry sets containing radioactive uranium and radium ores through the post via an advertisement in the back of a comic book,

in an era when every carnival on earth operated unregulated thrill rides (roller coasters, ferris wheels, etc),

in an era when every chemist's shop in Europe, the UK and the USA legally could sell opium-laced tonics over the counter,

in an era when factories were not required to put even minimally effective safety guards on dangerous industrial machinery,

...and could discharge a worker for carelessness if he (or she) injured himself (or herself) on the job,

most of a century before restaurants were required to post nutritional details of the product they proposed selling you,

back when you still could buy all the thujone-laden absinthe you could want,

most of a century before before bicycle manufacturers were forced to add "lawyer's tabs" to dropouts to save the operator from his own negligence,

when the only cycling helmet available was the "hair net,"

and most of a century before professional road cyclists would be required to wear a helmet during the race,

...industrialists who manufactured bicycles for the masses had such a profound sense of social responsibility and overwhelming love of their fellow man that they arranged the operator's controls on their products specifically for the benefit of their customers who might panic while operating it.

That is your story, is it?


And I never used the term 'BS.' The bovine excrement I had in mind was heifer snot.