whats going on at katusha?

[39*23t]

two riders banned for life, kenny do haes resigning for another team, robbie macewen injured and now gert stegmanns refusing to sign the money clause of their contract and possibly on his way out as well. why has it gone all wrong for "big money" team?

 

[Jasper]

I think the management has a somewhat outdated ideas on cycling in general, and especially Andrei Tchmil seems to scare off a lot of riders. He was a fantastic rider back in the days, but judging from what I read, hear and see in the media, he's not really a people's person. I think they just wanted to pull a cycling Chelsea, but forgot that a bunch of good riders alone is no guarantee for succes.

 

[anubisza]

The paying back of 5x salary is just ridiculous. Have any banned riders paid anything back yet?

I would imagine it's got something to do with Andrei Tchmil managing - he doesn't strike me as the most considerate boss in the world.

 

[BigBoat]

I was big Robbie McEwen fan... too bad he's all messed up with that injury.

As far as the Katusha program goes...they do not want to sign a clause risking everything for something they have to do (or the whole team is openly.) The riders do not want to risk giving up everything (what little they have) for a suicide clause. The team budget is not that large, 15 million Euros. There are pro soccer teams getting many times that... In last "Thursday, with Spanish construction magnate Florentino Perez back in control of the team, Real Madrid agreed to pay English club Manchester United a record transfer fee of $131 million to bring Portuguese star Cristiano Ronaldo to Spain."

 

[BigBoat]

two riders banned for life,

Who?!.......

 

[Jasper]

The paying back of 5x salary is just ridiculous.

Indeed it is. And I completely understand why Steegmans doesn't want to agree to such a completely outrageous penalty. Every Belgian knows what happened to Ruger Beke (Belgian top triathlete, tested positive for testosteron, got fined and suspended for 2 years, but managed to prove - after a very long, hard, dirty and financially wrecking juridic and medicaly battle - that his body produced the testosteron itself), and Steegmans sure as hell doesn't want to undergo the same thing. I mean, in this climate where even the remotest doping allegation gets taken seriously, such an arbitrary measure which could financially ruin you even though you've done nothing wrong isn't really appealing to any rider, no? If that's already enough for your own team to publicly say "Oh, then you must be doped yourself, there's no other explanation!", then I wouldn't stay either.

 

[39*23t]

The paying back of 5x salary is just ridiculous. Have any banned riders paid anything back yet?

I would imagine it's got something to do with Andrei Tchmil managing - he doesn't strike me as the most considerate boss in the world.

i don't even think it is legal to put a clause like that in and it certainly can't be good for morale. i seem to remember that andrei tchmil was not that popular in the peleton during his riding days either

 

[39*23t]

Who?!.......

Pfannberger and colom is this not their second time with epo.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

It's really hard to see how McEwen's injury is the team's fault....

Susan

 

[franciep10]

It's really hard to see how McEwen's injury is the team's fault....

Susan

not that it's the team fault just that they've had a string of bad luck recently and there not really winning alot

 

[anubisza]

i don't even think it is legal to put a clause like that in and it certainly can't be good for morale. i seem to remember that andrei tchmil was not that popular in the peleton during his riding days either

No definitely not. Imagine being wrongly accused, and being financially crippled for a long, long time. Ultimately, cycling is a job, it has to pay the bills, and cyclists have to take their families into account.

Re, Tchmil, I'd heard the same thing. I think he is way too old school to be running a new, rich, progressive cycling organisation. Oleg Tinkoff said pretty much that about him, that he wasn't a good man to deal with, and he was just in it for the money.

 

[Bluebeard]

I am normally rather sceptical about millionaires running sports teams, but I was rather suspicious about Oleg Tinkoff leaving when the team he built was about to become a major force in racing.

 

[Tusher]

Just a bizarre thought, but IF Steegmans is unhappy at Katusha, then by refusing to sign the new contract, he'll be thrown out on his ear. (or sent to a salt mine until he gives in). And thus free to look for another team, which he may already have lined up.





Well, i did say it was a bizarre thought.

 

[joe_papp]

The paying back of 5x salary is just ridiculous. Have any banned riders paid anything back yet?...

Recent report (maybe CYclingnews.com) said no riders (Vino, example) had paid salary penalties back to UCI or whomever it was after having been caught doping after signing anti-doping clause.

Bigger question for me is what is it with the tendency of Katusha (then Tinkoff) to force contract re-writes mid-season? It is utter crap the way that teams preemptively throw their riders to the wolves with these crazy "pay back 5x your salary if you get caught doping" clauses, without ever stipulating any kind of penalties for team management or support people, doctors, riders' wives or whatever.

If one signs such a clause, would it even be legally-enforcable in the EU? What would happen if you were the one unlucky ******* who did suffer a false positive and you'd agreed to the payback clause? Would Katusha's Russian Mafioso (err, I mean Sponsors/management) come collecting? Why would you sign such an agreement given that there is always always always the chance - however remote - of a false positive, and almost no hope of defending against one (an FP)? Would you only sign b/c your lawyers had told you that the clause was not enforcable?

Where are the lawyers out there? Isn't there something about "Unconscionable-ness" of a term of a contract rendering it unenforcable becuase the terms are so onerous, and one party (the rider) lacks the bargaining power to resist the unfair term?

 

[BigBoat]

I am normally rather sceptical about millionaires running sports teams, but I was rather suspicious about Oleg Tinkoff leaving when the team he built was about to become a major force in racing.

Last time I checked Bluebird... wasnt Oleg a Billionaire?

Cycling is WAY the heck underfunded compared to big money sports like Hockey... Cycling is bullied around by the money world, even WADA tries to overpower cycling... I mean the entire budget for an ENTIRE team is less than what Jarome Jagr gets paid in 2 years. What an F up for Hein Verbruggen to allow WADA into the Tour de France. LOL

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

It seems that team tinkoff did way better than Katjusha.

 

[BroDeal]

Recent report (maybe CYclingnews.com) said no riders (Vino, example) had paid salary penalties back to UCI or whomever it was after having been caught doping after signing anti-doping clause.

Bigger question for me is what is it with the tendency of Katusha (then Tinkoff) to force contract re-writes mid-season? It is utter crap the way that teams preemptively throw their riders to the wolves with these crazy "pay back 5x your salary if you get caught doping" clauses, without ever stipulating any kind of penalties for team management or support people, doctors, riders' wives or whatever.

If one signs such a clause, would it even be legally-enforcable in the EU? What would happen if you were the one unlucky ******* who did suffer a false positive and you'd agreed to the payback clause? Would Katusha's Russian Mafioso (err, I mean Sponsors/management) come collecting? Why would you sign such an agreement given that there is always always always the chance - however remote - of a false positive, and almost no hope of defending against one (an FP)? Would you only sign b/c your lawyers had told you that the clause was not enforcable?

Where are the lawyers out there? Isn't there something about "Unconscionable-ness" of a term of a contract rendering it unenforcable becuase the terms are so onerous, and one party (the rider) lacks the bargaining power to resist the unfair term?

I am pretty sure it is not enforceable. Even so, a rider might have to go through a lot of hassle to prove it so. f there were any possibility of collecting then I am sure McQuaid would be threatening to prevent Vino from racing until he paid.

I also do not see how requiring addional and extreme terms half way through the season is possible. If anyone leaves and cannot find a comparable contract then I am sure they will sue.

 

[Jasper]

So Katusha suspended Steegmans for not signing the new anti-doping clausule in his contract, according to head honcho Tchmil. He's not allowed to race Halle-Ingooigem tomorrow, and most likely he'll have to pass on the Belgian championship and the Tour as well. I wonder what his lawyers will do with this. If they even bother that is. It wouldn't surprise me if Steegmans too leaves Katusha before the Tour starts, just like Dehaes.

 

[hulkgogan]

Makes you wonder what a guy like Steegmans was thinking signing to a cowboy outfit like that - he musta known it was gonna be 50 shades of suck.

I guess they dumped a truckload of rubles on his doorstep.

 

[isayic]

Pfannberger tested positive for a second time. I don't know what was found when he first tested positive.

 

[BroDeal]

Pfannberger tested positive for a second time. I don't know what was found when he first tested positive.

He tested positive for EPO four or five years ago and was suspended for two years.

His career is over. He is not even thirty.

 

[BigBoat]

Thats too bad. He's been going for a long time I remember him...what ever happend to Franscisco Perez, that guy who beat the crap out of Tyler and the rest in the 2003 Tour de Romandie?

 

[craig1985]

CBF starting a new thread so here we go (from the front page):

'Non-active' status for Steegmans

Belgian sprinter sanctioned but not suspended

The drama surrounding Gert Steegmans and Katusha's anti-doping clause continues with the team's manager deeming his continuing stance worthy of sanction, with the Belgian rider now listed as 'non-active'. Team management stressed that he is not suspended, however.

Sporza reports that Andrei Tchmil has stated Steegmans may no longer compete for Katusha if the saga continues and he has been left off the roster for today's Halle-Ingooigem one-day race.

Having refused to sign the controversial anti-doping clause in his contract, which makes provision for the rider to pay up to five times his annual salary if he tests positive for banned substances, Katusha made threats not to select Steegmans for the Tour de France if he continued to remain 'defiant'. It seems his stance has proven costly.

Katusha directeur sportif Jef Braeckevelt said the team was ordered to keep Steegmans. "It's a bad move by him if it's only our team he wouldn't sign the anti-doping charter for," said Braeckevelt.

"The Katusha management has noted his attitude [in the matter] but he hasn't been suspended. We need him."