when did we start supporting teams instead of riders?

[Parrulo]

from what i have been seeing this trend has been growing stronger and stronger lately. people like 1 team and blindly love everything said team does and pick a rider of that team for every race even if its just silly.

some of the most obvious cases of this are ACF and dlwssonic with their gigantic man crush on everything BMC related(just using as an example don't be offended). but they are not the only ones.

am i wrong to remember that people used to be mostly fans of cyclists and only then teams? is cycling becoming football?

i fully understand supporting a team when it has some sort of national factor in it like the dutchies for rabo and the brits to sky both teams who have been doing a good job developing national talent. but to multi national teams?

for example i have never been a fan of the USpostal/disco/shack structure but will the fact that machado rides for them stop me from cheering him? ofc not. i have always liked(notice this are very soft likes not being a gigantic fanboy) saxo but did that make me cheer for canc and andy? ofc no

and what happens when the sponsor goes away and the team vanishes? because that won't happen in football but it happens almost every year if not every year to at least 1 to tier team

 

[jobiwan]

(Moving Post to This Thread )

You raise a good point.

For me, I root like crazy for the Schlecks, of course.
But I don't really care if Martin Mortensen or Robert Wagner get good results, even though they're on the same team.
I guess if no one I was really rooting for was in the race, I'd root for a Leopard.

Unless the team is a quasi-national bunch, like Katusha or Greenedge, I think it's more a case of someone's favorite rider being on the team, than liking the team itself.

Euskaltel, though, might be another exception.

 

[Fetisoff]

Moved as well

Well, I'm somewhat guilty of this for sure.

However I'm not going to blame myself, but rather Oleg Tinkov

This year, the Katusha successes have been so few and far in between, I've actually been able to enjoy some good cycling from other teams tho


For myself though, I always find a need to cheer for somebody in a race, and it's so easy to cheer for a national team, or an underdog.
Last year's Giro i was cheering for Vino and Arroyo. This year at the tour it was TV, of course.

 

[jobiwan]

And for me, if the Schlecks and Cancellara aren't in the race, I tend to turn towards rooting for an American rider, no matter what the team.

 

[Parrulo]

ty for moving the posts guys

i am tired so i messed up a bit when opening the thread

anyway i can't imagine myself cheering for some1 i dislike just because he is from a team i am supposed to be a fan of instead of cheering for a guy i like.

and like i said national pride is fully understandable even tho it also has its limits

p.s. jesus christ i must be really tired i can't write anything half decent <_>

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

There has been a move toward what are de facto national teams. There is Sky, Leopard, Green Edge, Astana, Katusha, and Euskaltel. Add the jingoistic types to the complete muppets who become superfans of the team their favorite rider is on and there appears to be a good percentage of fans that root for teams.

Vaughters must be quite happy. This is what he hopes the sport becomes.

 

[daveinzambia]

Had not really thought about this until I saw your post

think it is because of a largely nationalistic bias for me

I used to just want my favorite riders to succeed when younger (Roche and Lemond)
and frankly just loved watching any racing

now i definitely do support a team (Team Sky) and you are right it is much more like supporting a football team where i want any rider from that team to succeed

I am not sure if this is purely because i now have a national style team to support or if it is a change to the way cycling is now being marketed.

I went from being a cycling fanatic 20 years ago to drifting away from the sport (just watching the tour) and it was the publicity around team sky and watching team race that drew me back into the sport and back onto a bike.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Parrulo asks an interesting question. Always the rider should be the focus, team second. That does not mean someone can't have a fav team, as in organization or management (as opposed to a group of riders).

Here's another question along same line of thought. Can you have a fav rider or riders on a team, but hate the team managment? I did. Telekom. Liked guys like Ulle and Zabel, but could not take Goodefroot or Pevenage. This is like putting the rider ahead of the team, or liking the rider in spite of the team... rider first, team second.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

ty for moving the posts guys

i am tired so i messed up a bit when opening the thread

anyway i can't imagine myself cheering for some1 i dislike just because he is from a team i am supposed to be a fan of instead of cheering for a guy i like.

and like i said national pride is fully understandable even tho it also has its limits

p.s. jesus christ i must be really tired i can't write anything half decent <_>

makes perfect sense to me

 

[Parrulo]

btw i would like to explain what i meant with the "national pride also has its limits" part.

i like to support a portuguese rider but if the portuguese rider in the race can't do anything because he isn't in form or the parcours don't suit him i won't go around saying he could win just because i like him.

there were 4 portuguese riders in pologne and during the race i only mentioned one(oliveira) because he was in the break of the day and was to say that he would get dropped as soon as the road when up a bit. i could go like "OMFG machado finished in the top 5 of the stage martin won!!" but why would i do that when he is only there to get into shape and even a good placing on that stage was mostly anonymous the entire race?

anyway off to sleep its 5 am and i have been up since 7 am, and worked tons today so i need my beauty sleep <_<

cya tomorrow

 

[Fetisoff]

@ on3m@n@rmy - I don't like Tchmil.

But as a bit of a side note this thread made my think a little (not that it is very likely, but still) - what if say in Vuelta Menchov and J-Rod were going head to head to see who'd win the whole thing and who'd be second. Which one would I cheer for?
I remember in the Mende stage in last year's TDF i actually wanted Vino to win

 

[dlwssonic]

Hehe im honored that you mentioned me. Personally for me having my favorite rider evans in BMC makes me feel like supporting the team as a whole. However I do not support the riders just because evans is in it. I do like riders like GVA, phinney or even TGAK. Next year you might even be seeing me support Fabian instead of thor in PR who will be in BMC colors. Because I like fabian as a rider more than i like thor eventhough he is in BMC.

 

[Parrulo]

Hehe im honored that you mentioned me. Personally for me having my favorite rider evans in BMC makes me feel like supporting the team as a whole. However I do not support the riders just because evans is in it. I do like riders like GVA, phinney or even TGAK. Next year you might even be seeing me support Fabian instead of thor in PR who will be in BMC colors. Because I like fabian as a rider more than i like thor eventhough he is in BMC.

the question is would you like GVA, phinney and TGAK if they weren't on BMC? how many times have we even seen phinney and TGAK race this season that we could actually become fans from watching them?

phinney featured in 2 prologues(one of which was yesterday!!!) and TGAK won the norway champions which weren't even on TV.

 

[jobiwan]

Oh yes, Alex Kristoff. The best sprinter in the world - in Attention:Talent ratio.

(Until he moves away from BMC, at least )

 

[ingsve]

I think part of it is definately nationalistic. More and more teams have a distinct national feel. This was in a sense the case before as well when you had 4 predominantly french teams and 4 predominantly italian teams or spanish teams etc in the top rank but the difference back then was that you had more teams in the top countries so supporting based on nationality didn't equal supporting one team since you had 3,4 or 5 teams to choose from. Now on the other hand you have more single teams that are tied to a nationality which means that support for a specific nationality more directly links to support for a single team.

Another factor is all the focus on PT licenses in the past years so if you support a rider like Evans for example it follows that you're also rooting for the rest of the team to be successful in order to compete in the rankings to get the license etc.

Then I'm sure there are some people who support a team because they like how a team is organized or how a team rides regardless of riders etc. I would guess that Vacansoleil has supporters that like the team because they like the attacking riding style that seems to exist as a general rule in that team. I could also guess that Cervelo and now Garmin-Cervelo has fans that like the team because they have gotten to know the riders and management more in detail through the Beyond the Peloton series.

 

[hfer07]

the only team as a whole that I would ever root for is from my Home land Colombia-as a patriotic gesture-but I'm certain that only two riders out of the team will get the results & therefore my entire attention. -other than that-I'm old school too & I'll only cheer for riders of my liking-never an entire team...

 

[nevada]

The future of cycling lies in teams. Its better for sponsors and riders.

 

[spalco]

Even without nationalist biases and stuff like that I think it makes sense to support a team as a whole for example if you like their DSs philosophy about strategy/tactics or how they approach racing in general.

For example I never used to like Borussia Dortmund, but I have a lot of respect for how they are playing a very entertaining attacking football these days and how they made an effort of hiring young, previously not that well known players, often from their own development teams instead of making big-money big-name transfers. I also think it's cool how they have such strong support in their home town.

Same in cycling - how can you not appreciate the Basques' enthusiasm for Euskaltel or the aggressive tactics Saxo let Contador use?

If it's "ok" to hate teams as a whole (HTC), then what's different about liking teams that do business differently?

 

[just some guy]

Even without nationalist biases and stuff like that I think it makes sense to support a team as a whole for example if you like their DSs philosophy about strategy/tactics or how they approach racing in general.

For example I never used to like Borussia Dortmund, but I have a lot of respect for how they are playing a very entertaining attacking football these days and how they made an effort of hiring young, previously not that well known players, often from their own development teams instead of making big-money big-name transfers. I also think it's cool how they have such strong support in their home town.

Same in cycling - how can you not appreciate the Basques' enthusiasm for Euskaltel or the aggressive tactics Saxo let Contador use?

If it's "ok" to hate teams as a whole (HTC), then what's different about liking teams that do business differently?

was going to make a similar point

 

[cyclingPRpro]

Even without nationalist biases and stuff like that I think it makes sense to support a team as a whole for example if you like their DSs philosophy about strategy/tactics or how they approach racing in general.

For example I never used to like Borussia Dortmund, but I have a lot of respect for how they are playing a very entertaining attacking football these days and how they made an effort of hiring young, previously not that well known players, often from their own development teams instead of making big-money big-name transfers. I also think it's cool how they have such strong support in their home town.

Same in cycling - how can you not appreciate the Basques' enthusiasm for Euskaltel or the aggressive tactics Saxo let Contador use?

If it's "ok" to hate teams as a whole (HTC), then what's different about liking teams that do business differently?

Agreed. Wholly.

 

[RedheadDane]

(Replying to OP)

I guess I see what you mean. Sure, I might be rooting for Saxo but that doesn't me for rooting for pretty much half the peloton at the same time! If some obscure rider kicks away from the bunch heading for the line I'll be cheering on him no matter who is chasing. Simply because such an action is freaking cool!
Ever since Leopard was formed at took quite a bunch of Saxo-guys over a lot of Danes seem to have declared them all evil traitors, I can't help being a little "Eeh. You were cheering for them last year. They're still the same people..." (Especially since now everyone loves Contador while during last year's Tour he was the evil baddie due to the Chaingate stuff...)

During this years Tour I had what you could call a "luxury problem" as I basically wanted all of them to win.

As for nationalism. Well, sure! If it came down to a match between, say... Alex Rasmussen and JJ Haedo I'd be cheering for Alex! Partly because I "know" Alex better but I gotta admit also partly because he's Danish!

 

[jacko_69]

from what i have been seeing this trend has been growing stronger and stronger lately. people like 1 team and blindly love everything said team does and pick a rider of that team for every race even if its just silly.

some of the most obvious cases of this are ACF and dlwssonic with their gigantic man crush on everything BMC related(just using as an example don't be offended). but they are not the only ones.

am i wrong to remember that people used to be mostly fans of cyclists and only then teams? is cycling becoming football?

i fully understand supporting a team when it has some sort of national factor in it like the dutchies for rabo and the brits to sky both teams who have been doing a good job developing national talent. but to multi national teams?

for example i have never been a fan of the USpostal/disco/shack structure but will the fact that machado rides for them stop me from cheering him? ofc not. i have always liked(notice this are very soft likes not being a gigantic fanboy) saxo but did that make me cheer for canc and andy? ofc no

and what happens when the sponsor goes away and the team vanishes? because that won't happen in football but it happens almost every year if not every year to at least 1 to tier team

Is what your saying we should be supporting cycling in a particular way? And that way shouldn't really be Team based but really individual based? I think we should be able to support in what ever manner we like, be it team or individual. Some people can be just as over the top with their support of individual riders as much as they can be with teams, both can be equally enoying. For what it's worth I don't mind people being passionate about who they support, makes things interesting, I can choose to ignor the stuff that bothers me.

 

[L'arriviste]

If you support individual riders above teams and they go down for you-know-what (as has happened with many GC and Classics contenders over the years) you wind up disappointed. Whereas, unless you slavishly supported a Phonak or a Kelme, you were hardly going to see a whole team disappear thanks to the misdemeanours of an individual.

I think perhaps teams are getting more nationalistic as a response to the mores of sponsorship. Tighter budgets and ever more targeted sponsorship have coloured the sport in previous times and may be doing so again now.

Personally - and I am by no means a fanboy - Sky is one of the few teams in which I take a slightly greater interest than others.

There are semi-nationalistic reasons - not because I'm British, but because I like to see the sport growing in the UK. When I was a junior there, we had such poverty of means in cycling that there was nothing much to which one could aspire domestically beyond Raleigh-Banana, North Wirral Velo and Dinnington Road Club, all of which are represented below (notably including Boardman and Eurosport's Brian Smith pre-Motorola):

Sky also started up when I (re)started watching cycling seriously, and I think the team shifted the dynamic in cycling terms of web communication (in which I work professionally), so I follow its trajectory for those reasons too.

Finally, Sky also mimics the classic UK sporting meme of frequently raising personal expectations to silly, unrealistic proportions and then failing ignominiously. Thankfully a little less so in 2011.

But my first and only fanboy-lovelust-mancrush will always be Panasonic-Sportlife, which was predominantly a northern Classics team in the same TI-Raleigh mould, that being my favourite chunk of the calendar.

 

[ramjambunath]

I support Belgian riders as I lived there for a few years and the first and only live race I saw was de Ronde. Call it pseudo-nationalism if you will but there are no proper pros from my parts.

I don't follow any particular team though and believe only teams like Euskaltel are worth supporting as a team.

 

[the asian]

I support only riders not teams. But i do dislike certain teams because some cyclists I dislike ride for them. Leopard Trek is a example because of the Schlecks.