Which GT double is harder to do?

Which double is harder to do?

  • equally impossible

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airstream

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gregrowlerson said:
Obvious answer. The second GT is the most difficult to win due to recovery issues, and the TDF is the hardest GT to win due to the level of competition, so it's GIro-Tour.
It has a reverse side. A superrider can win the Giro on a pure class, having something in the tank for Le Tour whereas no one can win the Tour on class, Tour requires maximum effort.
 
Is this thread about Wiggins, or "super riders" in general?

I voted Giro - Tour, but a Tour - Vuelta double could be harder for some, also due to mental fatigue after having won the big one already. It depends on the rider. Physically, though, the Giro - Tour double is obviously much harder to accomplish.
 

airstream

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18-Valve. (pithy) said:
Is this thread about Wiggins, or "super riders" in general?

I voted Giro - Tour, but a Tour - Vuelta double could be harder for some, also due to mental fatigue after having won the big one already. It depends on the rider. Physically, though, the Giro - Tour double is obviously much harder to accomplish.
What means 'physically'? Just Giro parcours?
 
Giro-Tour.

Usually the Giro is very tough and takes a lot out of you, and to win the tour you have to be in top shape.
Hypothetically if the Vuelta and Giro were held in reverse orders I'm pretty sure there would be much more Vuelta-Tour double winners than Tour-Giro.winners.
 

airstream

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Netserk said:
As an example. Contador in 2011. With the form he had in May he could have won the Tour, and the form he showed in the Tour would have been enough to win the Vuelta that year. IMO.
do you seriously think he would of beaten that Froome?
 
Average péloton speed at the Tour is higher than at the Vuelta, so it's easier to hold form between the two than from Giro to Tour (also in recent years the gap between the Tour and Vuelta has been shorter, though that also means less recovery time of course).

For reference, we can note top names attempting Giro-Tour doubles in recent years:
Menchov 2008: 5th Giro, 4th Tour
Riccò 2008: 2nd Giro, DSQ Tour
Menchov 2009: 1st Giro, 50th Tour
Sastre 2009: 3rd Giro, 17th Tour
Evans 2010: 5th Giro, 25th Tour
Vinokourov 2010: 6th Giro, 15th Tour
Basso 2010: 1st Giro, 31st Tour
(Contador 2011: 1st Giro, 5th Tour)
Basso 2012: 5th Giro, 25th Tour

And top names attempting Tour-Vuelta doubles in recent years:
Evans 2007: 2nd Tour, 4th Vuelta
Sastre 2007: 4th Tour, 2nd Vuelta
Sastre 2008: 1st Tour, 3rd Vuelta
Valverde 2008: 6th Tour, 5th Vuelta
Evans 2009: 30th Tour, 3rd Vuelta
Rodríguez 2010: 7th Tour, 4th Vuelta
Valverde 2012: 20th Tour, 2nd Vuelta
Froome 2012: 2nd Tour, 4th Vuelta

The amount of people who double up on good performances is higher for the Tour-Vuelta double.
 

airstream

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Libertine Seguros said:
Average péloton speed at the Tour is higher than at the Vuelta, so it's easier to hold form between the two than from Giro to Tour (also in recent years the gap between the Tour and Vuelta has been shorter, though that also means less recovery time of course).

For reference, we can note top names attempting Giro-Tour doubles in recent years:
Menchov 2008: 5th Giro, 4th Tour
Riccò 2008: 2nd Giro, DSQ Tour
Menchov 2009: 1st Giro, 50th Tour
Sastre 2009: 3rd Giro, 17th Tour
Evans 2010: 5th Giro, 25th Tour
Vinokourov 2010: 6th Giro, 15th Tour
Basso 2010: 1st Giro, 31st Tour
(Contador 2011: 1st Giro, 5th Tour)
Basso 2012: 5th Giro, 25th Tour

And top names attempting Tour-Vuelta doubles in recent years:
Evans 2007: 2nd Tour, 4th Vuelta
Sastre 2007: 4th Tour, 2nd Vuelta
Sastre 2008: 1st Tour, 3rd Vuelta
Valverde 2008: 6th Tour, 5th Vuelta
Evans 2009: 30th Tour, 3rd Vuelta
Rodríguez 2010: 7th Tour, 4th Vuelta
Valverde 2012: 20th Tour, 2nd Vuelta
Froome 2012: 2nd Tour, 4th Vuelta

The amount of people who double up on good performances is higher for the Tour-Vuelta double.
But I bet you know in which of GT unofficial power ITT and MTT records were set. ;)
 
Oct 23, 2011
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airstream said:
do you seriously think he would of beaten that Froome?
Lol, how was Froome that impressive in that Vuelta? He lost to Cobo and finished 4 minutes in front of Monfort......

Don't think Contador would've beaten 'that Froome' from 2012 TDF in the 2011 TDF shape, but he sure should have been able to win the Vuelta 2011.
 

airstream

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Maaaaaaaarten said:
Lol, how was Froome that impressive in that Vuelta? He lost to Cobo and finished 4 minutes in front of Monfort......

Don't think Contador would've beaten 'that Froome' from 2012 TDF in the 2011 TDF shape, but he sure should have been able to win the Vuelta 2011.
Cobo rode Angliru faster than Contador. But let's think if characterizes him badly if you like. Nonetheless, Froome rode very conservatively for Wiggins. He would have ridden much stronger for himself.
 

airstream

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cineteq said:
Why 4 poll questions? It should be just 1. Giro-Tour. Airstream, now that you know, what's your next poll?
I disagree with people voting for Giro-Tour. It is too simplified thought.
 

airstream

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cineteq said:
The poll is proving you way wrong. Did you intend a different question? I don't get the 'too simplified'.
I don't think so otherwise I wouldn't open the thread.
 
Oct 23, 2011
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airstream said:
Cobo rode Angliru faster than Contador. But let's think if characterizes him badly if you like. Nonetheless, Froome rode very conservatively for Wiggins. He would have ridden much stronger for himself.
Yes, the stage Contador rode was 209,5km long and the stage Cobo rode was 142.2km. Contador had to race for more than 60km longer. Contadors race was a bit less than 2 hours longer that day. Also, the stage Contador rode had 5 categorized climbs, while Cobo's stage had only 3. Obviously Cobo did it faster, because Contador's stage was a serious mountain stage instead of that >150k crap we've been getting so much recently.

Froome would've rode conservatively if Contador was there too, so that doesn't change a thing. If these guys couldn't take more than 4min on Monfort, Contador would've probably won. Heck, Cobo took an impressive 1:35 on Sergey Lagutin on one of the toughest climbs used in GT's!
 

airstream

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Maaaaaaaarten said:
Yes, the stage Contador rode was 209,5km long and the stage Cobo rode was 142.2km. Contador had to race for more than 60km longer. Contadors race was a bit less than 2 hours longer that day. Also, the stage Contador rode had 5 categorized climbs, while Cobo's stage had only 3. Obviously Cobo did it faster, because Contador's stage was a serious mountain stage instead of that >150k crap we've been getting so much recently.
It can't be an absolute justification as you are trying to present it. Cobo did almost entire climb alone whereas Contador attacked only about from 2-3 km's to go. Crap? Any thing to belittle works right? Ok.
Froome would've rode conservatively if Contador was there too, so that doesn't change a thing. If these guys couldn't take more than 4min on Monfort, Contador would've probably won. Heck, Cobo took an impressive 1:35 on Sergey Lagutin on one of the toughest climbs used in GT's!
It changes everything drastically. Froome would have attacked as he did on Pena Cabarga, surely if you don't consider attacks against Contador illegal. What does Monfort have got with that? Sky didn't need to isolate Monfort or something. Or Monfort's closeness denigrates anyone? Everything depends on existing tasks. Sky tried to freeze the situation in the mountains, because that scenario suited Wiggins perfectly.


Yes! I can imagine how Lagutin hurt all fans of domination. Lol. Poor guys. :)
 
airstream said:
Cobo rode Angliru faster than Contador. But let's think if characterizes him badly if you like. Nonetheless, Froome rode very conservatively for Wiggins. He would have ridden much stronger for himself.
he didn't. he was around 45 sec slower than alberto.

about the on-topic
i tend to believe that giro-tour is harder but nowadays with vuelta being hard ridden too ,tour-vuelta is also hard to accomplish
 
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