Which is the Cleanest Team - Second Semi Final

[Anonymous]

OK.. as a number of teams where missing from the first...
a second poll...
New team sky included to see if people think they will be clean...

then we can have a grand final, knockout style, and maybe a dirtiest as well.....

and yes, it says Vervelho.. i cant edit it..

 

[workingclasshero]

im very tempted to vote for vervelho with the disastreous tour plus i believe in hushovd (despite his friendship with lance armstrong, that's disgusting and shady). not so sure about haussler

 

[issoisso]

I have a feeling people are going to vote for the "cleanest big name team" and completely ignore all the other choices

 

[Martinello]

my vote went to Bbox. The other French teams were also in contention but:

Cofidis has too shady a past with a programme that apparently got under the Douanes (French Customs) radar for several years with 'Bob' and Philippe Gaumont being the main protagonists.

Marc Madiots FdJ may also be reasonably clean, still the employment of one of the best responders and biggest gamblers of the nineties (Gianetti) spoils the picture.

Vincente Lavenue - who can forget his Casino-squad of 1998 - dirty as he!!

 

[pmcg76]

my vote went to Bbox. The other French teams were also in contention but:

Cofidis has too shady a past with a programme that apparently got under the Douanes (French Customs) radar for several years with 'Bob' and Philippe Gaumont being the main protagonists.

Marc Madiots FdJ may also be reasonably clean, still the employment of one of the best responders and biggest gamblers of the nineties (Gianetti) spoils the picture.

Vincente Lavenue - who can forget his Casino-squad of 1998 - dirty as he!!

I gave my vote to Bbox but wanted to vote for Lfdjeux also, yes they were dirty pre 98, they also had Rebellin in 97 but they went through a transformation since then. Since 99, Bbox & lfdjeux have not had any riders test positive that I can think of or have never been linked to any doping affairs. Maybe others can contradict me on this. Even after their riders leave for other teams, we never hear anything,e.g. Lokvist, Gilbert, Chavanel etc.

They may not be 100% clean but are a lot better than most other teams. I would like to believe Cofidis have improved since the Moreni incident a few years back and that AG2R have also cleaned up. Cervelo, I really hope they are clean, they have had a very successful season but there have been few outstanding performances apart from Haussler really improving. I just dont know.

As for the rest, I dont think things are like back in the 90s with everyone on the hot sauce. Even at Gerolsteiner, I think there were clean riders.

 

[issoisso]

I would like to believe Cofidis have improved since the Moreni incident a few years back

Considering how they regarded the whole incident with Moncoutié's relative I'd say they probably have.

and that AG2R have also cleaned up.

I would personally bet considerable amounts of money that they haven't

 

[luckyboy]

Considering how they regarded the whole incident with Moncoutié's relative I'd say they probably have.

Must've missed this - what happened?

I would personally bet considerable amounts of money that they (AG2R) haven't

I've always been suspicious of Valjavec for some reason.



Anyway, it was either Bbox or FdJ. I voted FdJ.

 

[pmcg76]

Considering how they regarded the whole incident with Moncoutié's relative I'd say they probably have.



I would personally bet considerable amounts of money that they haven't

On AG2R, if you look at the Casino era 97-98 and compare it to their current performances, there is no comparison. If their is a doping programme like the Casino era, I dont think it is very good. I guess Mancebo was caught but that was before he even got going with AG2R, Astarloza also was on AG2R.

Other than those 2 I cannot think of any other riders who have been caught. I guess people will point at Valjavec but he is more steady than spectacular, Dessel was at Phonak so...nobody else stands out.

 

[issoisso]

Must've missed this - what happened?

Early 2007. A relative of Moncoutié talked to the french media about how David was very angry at Cofidis for not firing 4 riders on the team when most of the other (clean) riders discovered that they were doping. Cofidis wanted to lay low and just not renew their contracts.

Moncoutié was very angry at this as he didn't want any of this leaked to the press (Moncoutié is, according to Gaumont, Millar and a few others from the Cofidis scandal, the one rider who won't touch any artificial drugs. He quite literally will not even take vitamins. But he hates public conflict far more than anything else, so he lays low on the media front in all situations).

One of the four riders tested positive at the Tour a short time later and the other 3's contracts were not renewed and thus they left the team as those ended.

The names weren't literally spelled out, but were "implied" in a way as to leave absolutely no doubt as to who exactly they were. Let's call them, oh say..... Iban Barra, Ftaf Feirlinckx and Mick Muyens

but he is more steady than spectacular, Dessel was at Phonak so...nobody else stands out.

How does that have anything to do with it?

Either way, you forgot Efimkin, and the easiest one to finger: Nocentini. Drugs in his hotel room in the 2001 Giro raids and named by China as someone on drugs in youth categories (not that most weren't by then in those days)

 

[pedaling squares]

Went with BBox, but hey it's cycling. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me 157 times, I must be a cycling fan. Love the Vervelho bit, but I too am not sure about the Germastralian's blood running clean.

 

[luckyboy]

Early 2007. A relative of Moncoutié talked to the french media about how David was very angry at Cofidis for not firing 4 riders on the team when most of the other (clean) riders discovered that they were doping. Cofidis wanted to lay low and just not renew their contracts.

Moncoutié was very angry at this as he didn't want any of this leaked to the press (Moncoutié is, according to Gaumont, Millar and a few others from the Cofidis scandal, the one rider who won't touch any artificial drugs. He quite literally will not even take vitamins. But he hates public conflict far more than anything else, so he lays low on the media front in all situations).

One of the four riders tested positive at the Tour a short time later and the other 3's contracts were not renewed and thus they left the team as those ended.

Oh I see, thanks. One of my favourite riders, Moncoutie is.

The names weren't literally spelled out, but were "implied" in a way as to leave absolutely no doubt as to who exactly they were. Let's call them, oh say..... Iban Barra, Ftaf Feirlinckx and Mick Muyens

ahaha

 

[pmcg76]

Early 2007. A relative of Moncoutié talked to the french media about how David was very angry at Cofidis for not firing 4 riders on the team when most of the other (clean) riders discovered that they were doping. Cofidis wanted to lay low and just not renew their contracts.

Moncoutié was very angry at this as he didn't want any of this leaked to the press (Moncoutié is, according to Gaumont, Millar and a few others from the Cofidis scandal, the one rider who won't touch any artificial drugs. He quite literally will not even take vitamins. But he hates public conflict far more than anything else, so he lays low on the media front in all situations).

One of the four riders tested positive at the Tour a short time later and the other 3's contracts were not renewed and thus they left the team as those ended.

The names weren't literally spelled out, but were "implied" in a way as to leave absolutely no doubt as to who exactly they were. Let's call them, oh say..... Iban Barra, Ftaf Feirlinckx and Mick Muyens



How does that have anything to do with it?

Either way, you forgot Efimkin, and the easiest one to finger: Nocentini. Drugs in his hotel room in the 2001 Giro raids and named by China as someone on drugs in youth categories (not that most weren't by then in those days)

I had actually thought about these 2, you will have to explain Efimkin to me though, which one?

 

[issoisso]

I had actually thought about these 2, you will have to explain Efimkin to me though, which one?

Both of them really. No specifics. Vladimir for instance rode for Barloworld, Caisse and now AG2R. All of that is suspicious to me. Not to mention that doping seems to be rampant among youth russian riders more than any other nationality

 

[skidmark]

Since 99, Bbox & lfdjeux have not had any riders test positive that I can think of or have never been linked to any doping affairs. Maybe others can contradict me on this.

Just off the top of my head, I remember Dimitri Fofonov (wait, or was it Yuri Trofimov? I always get those similar names of relatively anonymous cyclists confused) getting kicked out of the TdF last year (2008) for doping well he was on Bouyges... so they haven't been pristine, but yes I'd agree that they're probably way ahead/behind (depending on how you look at it) the other teams.

 

[workingclasshero]

Just off the top of my head, I remember Dimitri Fofonov (wait, or was it Yuri Trofimov? I always get those similar names of relatively anonymous cyclists confused) getting kicked out of the TdF last year (2008) for doping well he was on Bouyges... so they haven't been pristine, but yes I'd agree that they're probably way ahead/behind (depending on how you look at it) the other teams.

fofonov was with credit agricole was he not? think he was done after the tour as well

 

[pmcg76]

fofonov was with credit agricole was he not? think he was done after the tour as well

Fofonov was indeed Credit Agricole not Boguyes Telecom. I remember when Boguyes signed Joseba Beloki, former Festina doper Didier Rous was quite outspoken on the behaviour of Beloki, he felt that Beloki didnt fit in at Boguyes and was less than trustworthy.

Rous was a rider who was caught in the Festina affair and became very anti-doping afterwards. Of course, this type of cyclist(former doper gone straight) do not exist according to some people on this forum. Opinions on Rous anyone.

 

[Willy_Voet]

Team Sky b/c they haven't raced yet.

 

[Escarabajo]

On AG2R, if you look at the Casino era 97-98 and compare it to their current performances, there is no comparison. If their is a doping programme like the Casino era, I dont think it is very good. I guess Mancebo was caught but that was before he even got going with AG2R, Astarloza also was on AG2R.

Other than those 2 I cannot think of any other riders who have been caught. I guess people will point at Valjavec but he is more steady than spectacular, Dessel was at Phonak so...nobody else stands out.

Christophe Moreau. I don't trust them.

My vote was for BBOX. But I could go with FRANCAIS DE JEUX as well.

Team Sky should be taken out. No history. (???)

 

[Escarabajo]

...

Rous was a rider who was caught in the Festina affair and became very anti-doping afterwards. Of course, this type of cyclist(former doper gone straight) do not exist according to some people on this forum. Opinions on Rous anyone.

Actually they do exist. An example is Cunego.

 

[Anonymous]

Christophe Moreau. I don't trust them.

My vote was for BBOX. But I could go with FRANCAIS DE JEUX as well.

Team Sky should be taken out. No history. (???)

team sky was put in as explained to see if people perceptions where that they where a team who where coming into cycling clean.. we know what riders they already have, we know the team management structure so its not difficult to work out if they are going to be ethical, or have a program..
they have the same history as any other team.. all the teams listed we look at where riders where before, where riders went afterwards, where the ds had previously been, ridden etc... so theres plenty of history in the management structure and riders they have so far...

you dont have to vote for them..

 

[Ripper]

I don't even want to waste my time reading through to know what chuckle head voted for Astana.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't even want to waste my time reading through to know what chuckle head voted for Astana.

i knew i should have unchecked the "keep voting private" box

hang on.. 1am uk.. thats about 7pm in western us.. someones just got in from work.. either that or someone in us eastern has just got in from the pub..

 

[Ripper]

i knew i should have unchecked the "keep voting private" box

hang on.. 1am uk.. thats about 7pm in western us.. someones just got in from work.. either that or someone in us eastern has just got in from the pub..

If it's 1 am in the UK and you're in the UK, you should be getting some shut eye!

FWIW, I voted BBox. I just think it's crazy that someone voted Astana a clean team

 

[Ferminal]

BBox! (10char)

 

[badboyberty]

I voted Sky, but that's only because they don't really exist yet.