Who has ridden the Monuments?

[King Boonen]

So, who's ridden them?


My plan over the next few years is to build up to riding them, either when the sportives are on or just out on my own. Any advice? My main aim is just to get round them in a day, I'm not looking for a specific time or anything. Any reason I can't just ride them when I want? For instance are bikes allowed on the Turchino pass and is riding that road on my own advisable? Things like this. All and any guidance appreciated!

 

[Netserk]

I don't really have any (real) advices, but I'd recommend you to ride the old Ronde course instead of the circuit circus

 

[King Boonen]

I don't really have any (real) advices, but I'd recommend you to ride the old Ronde course instead of the circuit circus

Maybe I should have said, I want to ride the "definitive" routes and I'm hoping guys like yourself will help me decide what they are

There will be threads on those when I'm building up to them

 

[Netserk]

They change constantly, often it's just minor tweaks, but sometimes it's start and finish location as well. I guess it's up to you what you prefer. Le M?nie or not in MSR? I don't think there has been two identical Ronde courses in a row (that I'm aware of).

 

[King Boonen]

They change constantly, often it's just minor tweaks, but sometimes it's start and finish location as well. I guess it's up to you what you prefer. Le M?nie or not in MSR? I don't think there has been two identical Ronde courses in a row (that I'm aware of).

I'll probably pick a year where a favoured rider won (Hinault's LBL in 1980 would be a prime example of that but I can't remember if it includes all the climbs you would want in a classic LBL) but I'd be more inclined to include as many climbs/cobbles/fabled roads as possible, even if I end up with a route that's not really been ridden before (quite possible with Lombardia I'd expect, it's got to include the Muro di Sormano hasn't it?! ).

So really I'm open to all suggestions on these, it's just going to be more about riding the roads and areas associated with these races rather than a specific course from a specific year.

 

[screaming fist]

I read a story on riding the MSR route in one of the German bike magazines somes years ago. Basically they said the first part is horrbile as it's just some major roads leaving Milan. After that it was OK. Too bad I've thrown all that magazines away when I moved last year.

 

[Roude Leiw]

For most, if not all the monuments, there are cyclos, most of the time they prpose different, ie shorter, run ins to the main part.

I wll start the ronde this year in that format

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

I went to the Flemis Ardennes to do the definitive parts of the Ronde last summer. For me it's not so far away, so it was pretty easy for me to do it. I'm not training very seriously for cycling or anything and I hadn't cycled for a while so I couldn't do a real ~250km RVV, but me and a friend managed to get (almost) all of the iconic parts of the Ronde in roughly 100km, including the old finale (Muur + Bosberg) and the new one (Paterberg + Oude Kwaremont). Yeah so if you want to do the Ronde, whatever you do, at least do the Muur + Bosberg combo and do the Paterberg, Kwaremont and of course the Koppenberg.

By the way, in the Flemish Ardennes you won't have any troubles cycling. The Ronde doesn't really use big roads and the area is permanently infested with cyclists anyway, so everybody is used to seeing loads of cyclists on the roads. Actually that's true for all of Belgium, not just the Flemish Ardennes.

 

[Scott SoCal]

So, who's ridden them?


My plan over the next few years is to build up to riding them, either when the sportives are on or just out on my own. Any advice? My main aim is just to get round them in a day, I'm not looking for a specific time or anything. Any reason I can't just ride them when I want? For instance are bikes allowed on the Turchino pass and is riding that road on my own advisable? Things like this. All and any guidance appreciated!

I've done the Ronde Cyclo four times, all at the race distance leaving from Bruges. Twice when they were using the Muur (finish in Ninove) and twice on the new course. The Cyclo (now) doesnt follow the real race course these days... You only hit the climbs once and the Cyclo does climbs the pros don't. That said, 250+ kilometers is a MFer and it really only gets hard after about 5+ hours of riding.

I've done the Paris-Roubaix Challenge twice... The first year in 2011 and in 2014. The first year was 18 sectors and about 85 miles. Tough but not too hard. This past year was 28 sectors and 105 miles. The most difficult ride to the finish I have ever had. No joke. It's incredibly hard. I might do it one more time... Then I'm done with those rides forever.

Beyond that I have almost no interest in doing the Ardennes rides. Too hilly and I can't stay away from the Trappist Monestaries.

 

[Archibald]

Done Roubaix twice - once before the ASO Challenge and once then the first one in 2011. Non-challenge should be realtively easy if you go out on the friday. They should have all the yellow directional markers up by then [to follow], and you'll likely see a few of the pros out and about.

I've also done the Ronde (cyclo) back in 2011 on the 'old' route. Not much to add beyond Scott's comments above really... If you do the cyclo, then go early! The numbers of riders doing it are nuts.

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

I rode most of Lombardia a couple of years ago absolutely beautiful around Como but the shoreline road is narrow and busy. Ghisalo is a great climb but the muro was too much for me on a 34:25

 

[King Boonen]

Hi all,

Thank you very much for the responses!

Screaming Fist and Swifty's Cakes, it sounds like I'd be best doing MSR as the sportive then with a large group, rather than just on my own, and the same with Lombardia too. I suppose if Lombardia misses out climbs I want to do I can just take a weeks holiday and ride them another day 34-28 at least, maybe more out back for me then!

Roude Liew, my plan is to ride these but only as long as they include the bits I want to do. I'd like to do the full length routes really, but perhaps it's more sensible to do the shorter ones (like cutting out the first 100km of P-R and starting at the cobbles etc.).

Maaaaaaaarten, that's great. I've ridden a little bit around Brugge and found the cycling facilities to be over worldly compared to the UK. Great to know that extends all over Beglium. I can see a weeks cycling holiday coming up...

Scott SoCal, P-R was going to be my first one, maybe I should change that..! And I do love the Trappist beers, luckily I can get them very easily here. I like hills, even though I'm rubbish at them so LBL is a particular goal!

Achibald, I'm guessing from your post that the cyclos are not mass starts but just an open route you ride when you want? I wasn't aware of this but that certainly fits with me being a morning person.

My planned order was:

Paris-Roubaix
Ronde Van Vlaanderen (Dutch sister-in-law shouts if I call it the Tour of Flanders )
Milan-Sanremo
Liege-Bastogne-Liege
Giro Di Lombardia


The first two are the easiest for me to get to and I could conceivably take my car to make the logistics simpler (would probably have a mate with me for P-R as he really fancies riding it), then MSR as even though it's long it's not hilly (much), LBL I could do in a weeks holiday and again take the car and finally Lombardia which I'm guessing would be the hardest for a guy who's built like Boonen


Does this sound sensible?

 

[King Boonen]

Oh, I'd also love to have one of these:

or

built up to ride them, but that probably won't happen.

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

I've ridden Paris-Roubaix twice.

In 2010 I did the ride with the Velo-Club Roubaix. It happens in june and once every 2 years its road bike or mountain bike. 2015 is mountain bike, next road bike ride will be 2016.

You can do all the way or just the last 110km (30km of cobbles) where you start with the Aremberg trench (brutal !).

I also did the ASO sportive in 2013. The big advantage of this ride is that start and finish are at the Roubaix Velodrome so you don't have to care about where you park the car or take the bus or whatever. It takes place on the eve of the pro race. The most usual route is 140km long with the cobbles starting at Aremberg too.

My advice to you : you definitely have to be prepared for Roubaix. It's not like any other race. It's brutal for the rider as well as the machine. The cobbles there are nothing like the cobbles you'll encounter in most european capitals. These are "civilized" cobbles. Roubaix is not civilized. It's wild.

What I did was use vintage wheels both times. I have a 20 years old pair of Wolber that do just fine. I did the 2010 ride on an old steel bike, the 2013 on a carbon Specialized... Roubaix, of course. You have to worry about vibrations : good clothing (especially shorts), make sure your bottles will stay in place...

I would not try Roubaix on my own. Having some assistance, or at least, other riders along the way is the smart thing to do. Plus you won't get off course. These little roads can be tricky.

In terms of atmosphere, the VC Roubaix sportive is way more fun than the ASO sportive. Plus it is in june which allows you to hope for a warm weather (although it rained all day long when I did it, at least it was not cold). The other cool thing about the VC Roubaix sportive is that you can actually use the legendary velodrome showers after the race, which is not the case with ASO.

In any case, be prepared.

 

[Archibald]

Achibald, I'm guessing from your post that the cyclos are not mass starts but just an open route you ride when you want? I wasn't aware of this but that certainly fits with me being a morning person.

P-R was - started together in waves/groups.
de Ronde wasn't - but I was there at 8am and thousands already out on the course. I just rolled through the start area and headed off.
Overall that year there were something crazy like 17,000 riders doing it.

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

For P-R, you have a window of starting hours, like 7-9 in the morning. It's generally pretty early. If you start at the opening hour, you'll be in a bunch of competitors, going fast. It's cool for the first half of the race but once you're on the cobblestones, you're better on your own than in a buch. Nothing scarier than having to pass someone on the cobbles. Being in the middle of the road or on the side makes a huge difference.

 

[King Boonen]

Cheers guys, great advice.

I'll be getting a training set of 32 spoke, ambrosio rim wheels be built up that I'll use for all of these rides, I always go for strength over lightness


I'm actually quite looking forward to the cobbles, I'm a mountain biker so used to keeping moving over the rough stuff, I'll also be searching out some training roads this year to at least get a feel for it and might even take a longer holiday to ride a couple of sections before the sportive/my ride to make sure I know what they're like.

So it sounds like I'd be best off turnig up early, getting dragged along by the fast guys and then just going at my own pace either a few k's before the cobbles or stick at the back when we hit them. Are there any markers giving distances to the cobbles sections? Or are there just the start markers like it the race?

 

[King Boonen]

This is what I plan to have built:

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/training-wheels

Lighter than my RS21's, more spokes (and none of that bladed rubbish) and much stronger rims so will no doubt survive the harsh cobbles much better. I also spoke to them about the hubs they use and whether I should upgrade to Hope (which I have on my MTB), they are completely rebuildable at a much cheaper cost than Hopes so I'll be sticking with the Miche I think.

They look like the perfect wheelset to get me round. Any opinions?

 

[Scott SoCal]

This is what I plan to have built:

http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/training-wheels

Lighter than my RS21's, more spokes (and none of that bladed rubbish) and much stronger rims so will no doubt survive the harsh cobbles much better. I also spoke to them about the hubs they use and whether I should upgrade to Hope (which I have on my MTB), they are completely rebuildable at a much cheaper cost than Hopes so I'll be sticking with the Miche I think.

They look like the perfect wheelset to get me round. Any opinions?

Not trying to take the wind out of your sails but if the wheels can't be built on at least 23mm wide rims then I would look elsewhere.

In 2014 I used Hed Aredenes+ (25mm), tubeless with Hutchinson Sector 28mm tires. I ran 80psi rear and 76psi in the front and I weigh over 200 lbs.

For Roubaix, you will make an enormous mistake if you don't run wide rims, fat tires and lower pressure. For these reasons I went tubeless and it worked out extremely well.

 

[King Boonen]

No worries at all fella, this is the kind of advice I need. I'm sure I can get a set built on wider rims. Would they be fine for the other monuments?

Looking at options there's the Hed Ardennes and Belgiums, H+son Archtype, Pacenti SL23 and Velocity A23. Any more?

 

[Scott SoCal]

No worries at all fella, this is the kind of advice I need. I'm sure I can get a set built on wider rims. Would they be fine for the other monuments?

Looking at options there's the Hed Ardennes and Belgiums, H+son Archtype, Pacenti SL23 and Velocity A23. Any more?

The wider rims are good for everything except - perhaps - crazy climbing events where every gram matters. I don't worry too much about that as I would be far better off just laying off the Belgian beer.

For events where you want to do well and don't want to risk punctures... or service is limited... it's hard to beat tubeless.

While a 28mm tire won't kill you at Flanders it's probably not ideal. 25mm or 24mm would work there. If you aren't trying to set the world on fire for a great time I would just use the same set-up for both and Roubaix is far more critical to get correct.

In my humble opinion, of course.

 

[King Boonen]

Great, thanks very much! Weight is not an issue for me, as long as I can turn 34-28 or even 34-32 if I go that way for the bigger stuff I'm happy, it's purely a cyclotourism plan with the only goal being to get round each of them in a day.

Will have a word with local wheel builders and see what they say. Very lucky to have two very good ones within a half hours drive.

 

[Echoes]

I'll probably pick a year where a favoured rider won (Hinault's LBL in 1980 would be a prime example of that but I can't remember if it includes all the climbs you would want in a classic LBL)

In 1980, Liege most definitely included the Wanne/Stockeu/Haute-Levee trilogy, the Rosiers, the Mont Theux, the Redoute, most probably the Hornay and the Forges.

I'm not sure about the Vecquee but it was in there in 1979 (Thurau made his decisive move on it) just before the Theux. So I don't see any reason why they would have dropped it.

No Cote de St-Roch, it was added in 1990 as substitution for Stockeu which considered dangerous back then.

No Saint-Nicolas, added in 1998 and of course no Roche aux Faucons.

The finish was on the Boulevard de la Sauveni?re rather South of Liege. Flat finish. It had been become a classic between 1974 and 1989. The start back then was at the Palais des Princes Eveques. Classic too. Actually ASO changed everything when they started partnering the Pesant Club Li?geois (historical organiser).

Race wise, I much prefer the old route, to be honest. But perhaps you are keen on climbing the Saint-Nick. It's your project after all. But I think the St-Nick ruins the race, first because it encourages the riders to a waiting race and second because the St-Nicolas is in downtown Liege, it's kind of ugly and if you are a little bit romantic you'd say that the true Ardennes are no longer promoted. Liege is not in the Ardennes, the Ardennes are the high plateau South of it. Wanne, Stockeu, Haute Levee that is the Ardennes. These are the classic climbs of the race. Haven't climbed them but many told me that they are the hardest, if only for the fact that they are in succession because of the flat in-between. But even in themselves, they are hard.

The Cotacol Encyclopedia classified the Stockeu has the 2nd hardest climb in Belgium (340pts), the Rosier as 26th (271pts), the Vecquee as 20th (282pts), the Redoute as 36th (249pts). The Saint-Nicolas only has 127 points (rue du Bordelais). The Haute-Levee has 201 points. Wanne has 202pts and the Mont-Theux: 185.

http://www.tcwoensel.nl/clubritten_pdf/Top 25 Cotacol.pdf
http://users.skynet.be/cyclo-wavre/cotacol_belges.pdf


Edit: This diatrics and accent problem is starting to bore me...

 

[Archibald]

While a 28mm tire won't kill you at Flanders it's probably not ideal. 25mm or 24mm would work there. If you aren't trying to set the world on fire for a great time I would just use the same set-up for both and Roubaix is far more critical to get correct.

Great, thanks very much! Weight is not an issue for me, as long as I can turn 34-28 or even 34-32 if I go that way for the bigger stuff I'm happy, it's purely a cyclotourism plan with the only goal being to get round each of them in a day.

the year I did both, I had the same set-up: 28mm clinchers on 32 spoke mavic cxp-33s. I just ran the pressure a bit higher for RvV. P-R was about 90psi...
As for ratio's I was on a 53/42 with (I think) 12/25 (or 27) on the rear (9spd). I'm not Scotty's 200lbs either - I was about 82kgs when I did it
No issues or punctures at either.
Hope that's some help

RvV climbs were all do-able, although I couldn't get through the crowd on the Koppenberg - just too many people in the way walking...

 

[King Boonen]

In 1980, Liege most definitely included the Wanne/Stockeu/Haute-Levee trilogy, the Rosiers, the Mont Theux, the Redoute, most probably the Hornay and the Forges.

I'm not sure about the Vecquee but it was in there in 1979 (Thurau made his decisive move on it) just before the Theux. So I don't see any reason why they would have dropped it.

No Cote de St-Roch, it was added in 1990 as substitution for Stockeu which considered dangerous back then.

No Saint-Nicolas, added in 1998 and of course no Roche aux Faucons.

The finish was on the Boulevard de la Sauveni?re rather South of Liege. Flat finish. It had been become a classic between 1974 and 1989. The start back then was at the Palais des Princes Eveques. Classic too. Actually ASO changed everything when they started partnering the Pesant Club Li?geois (historical organiser).

Race wise, I much prefer the old route, to be honest. But perhaps you are keen on climbing the Saint-Nick. It's your project after all. But I think the St-Nick ruins the race, first because it encourages the riders to a waiting race and second because the St-Nicolas is in downtown Liege, it's kind of ugly and if you are a little bit romantic you'd say that the true Ardennes are no longer promoted. Liege is not in the Ardennes, the Ardennes are the high plateau South of it. Wanne, Stockeu, Haute Levee that is the Ardennes. These are the classic climbs of the race. Haven't climbed them but many told me that they are the hardest, if only for the fact that they are in succession because of the flat in-between. But even in themselves, they are hard.

The Cotacol Encyclopedia classified the Stockeu has the 2nd hardest climb in Belgium (340pts), the Rosier as 26th (271pts), the Vecquee as 20th (282pts), the Redoute as 36th (249pts). The Saint-Nicolas only has 127 points (rue du Bordelais). The Haute-Levee has 201 points. Wanne has 202pts and the Mont-Theux: 185.

http://www.tcwoensel.nl/clubritten_pdf/Top 25 Cotacol.pdf
http://users.skynet.be/cyclo-wavre/cotacol_belges.pdf


Edit: This diatrics and accent problem is starting to bore me...

Thanks fella that's great info! I'm with you on the classic route, but I'd also like to climb Saint Nicolas, but I'll no doubt be staying in Liege so I should easily be able to put a route together that includes everything, or ride two days and pick up the more local climbs on the second. Thanks very much!

the year I did both, I had the same set-up: 28mm clinchers on 32 spoke mavic cxp-33s. I just ran the pressure a bit higher for RvV. P-R was about 90psi...
As for ratio's I was on a 53/42 with (I think) 12/25 (or 27) on the rear (9spd). I'm not Scotty's 200lbs either - I was about 82kgs when I did it
No issues or punctures at either.
Hope that's some help

RvV climbs were all do-able, although I couldn't get through the crowd on the Koppenberg - just too many people in the way walking...

Thanks that's interesting. I'm currently running 50/34 with 12-28 out back. I've been considering stepping up to a 53 on the big ring as I do prefer low revs and can easily spin up the 50/12 on a gentle downhill, I just need to know if the front derailleur will handle the drop to a 34, or I need to man up and move to a 39...

I weigh about 78kgs at the moment, hoping I'll have lost at least a couple by the time I start doing these rides, but I'm very undertrained so I know it's possible I'll add some bulk, especially on the legs. The CXP is a 15mm rim, which would extend my options...