Who has the best palmares: Valverde vs. Nibali

[El Pistolero]

I was wondering what the mainstream opinion is regarding these two cyclists. Keep in mind I'm not asking who you think is the best cyclist now, or who is the best overall rider. I'm merely asking who of the two you think has a better palmares.

First of we have Valverde:

Major wins:

Liége-Bastogne-Liége: 2006, 2008, 2015.

La Flèche Wallone: 2006, 2014, 2015, 2016.

Vuelta a España: 2009

Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré: 2009, 2010

Volta a Catalunya: 2009

Clasica San Sebastian: 2008, 2014

He also won nine Vuelta stages, one Giro stage and four Tour stages.

Now on to Nibali:

Major wins:

Vuelta a España: 2010

Giro d'Italia: 2013, 2016

Tour de France: 2014

Giro di Lombardia: 2015

Tirreno-Adriatico: 2012, 2013

He also won 1 Vuelta stage, 6 Giro stages and 5 Tour stages.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Without his victory in Lombardia last year, I would have gone with Bala, but a 4 time GT winner + a monument is hard to argue with, so I'm going for Nib's palmares.

Worth mentioning GT podiums and both's results in World Championships too btw, would do more justice to Valverde's ability

 

[Arredondo]

I think i would prefer Nibali's palmares. He's won all the GT's, and a monument.

Do you count Catalunya too as a major win? Because i think Catalunya is in the same league as PN, TA, Pais Vasco, Dauphine etc... Not in terms of prestige, but surely in terms of level.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

I think i would prefer Nibali's palmares. He's won all the GT's, and a monument.

Do you count Catalunya too as a major win? Because i think Catalunya is in the same league as PN, TA, Pais Vasco, Dauphine etc... Not in terms of prestige, but surely in terms of level.

Didn't he lose it because of his doping ban? If not I'll add it in.

 

[SeriousSam]

I'm no friend of such a reductive take that looks only at results, and only wins, and only major wins, ignoring non-victory results, lesser wins and most crucially, the context in how results came about, one important factor of which is the role played by luck.

But obeying the constraints imposed in the OP: Nibali

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

I think i would prefer Nibali's palmares. He's won all the GT's, and a monument.

Do you count Catalunya too as a major win? Because i think Catalunya is in the same league as PN, TA, Pais Vasco, Dauphine etc... Not in terms of prestige, but surely in terms of level.

Didn't he lose it because of his doping ban? If not I'll add it in.

No, he won it in 2009. His only results stripped were in 2010 (so Romandië).

 

[SeriousSam]

btw, welcome back Pistolero!

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah welcome back man, you may want to adjust the poll, cause right now it doesn't work. Edit poll>add or remove option>then do it again and restore poll

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Bala.

 

[ILovecycling]

Lol Pistolero
I hope you will stick there for long!

Interesting thread,its difficult to compare classics with GT's,but for me its Nibali....otoh Valverde consistency is amazing

 

[SafeBet]

Including podiums and lesser wins I'd take Bala's palmares.
Nibali is 4 years younger though so he's probably destined to have a better palmares come the day they both call it a career.

 

[Forever The Best]

Good thread and welcome back!(I've read some posts about you when I was just lurking)
As for the question,I would take Nibali.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Yeah welcome back man, you may want to adjust the poll, cause right now it doesn't work. Edit poll>add or remove option>then do it again and restore poll

Thanks for the welcome back's everyone, and does the poll work now?

 

[Rollthedice]

Bala is four years older so a more realistic palmares comparison would be Valverde until 2012 or wait for both to retire. Since Valverde will probably never retire I prefer to deduct one Liege and 3 Fleche from his palmares which makes Nibali's look even better. Anyway, 4 GTs, all three included is something that only Contador from the current peloton topped. The monument won just adds to the impressive palmares but I'm sure at least one more is achievable.

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

Yeah, welcome back Pistolero! I already was wondering if it was THE one and only El Pistolero

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

I'm no friend of such a reductive take that looks only at results, and only wins, and only major wins, ignoring non-victory results, lesser wins and most crucially, the context in how results came about, one important factor of which is the role played by luck.

But obeying the constraints imposed in the OP: Nibali

I've always been a fan of the "only wins matter" attitude that characterizes Nibali and Contador. But you're free to take into account podium places if you think that is important. I only listed the big wins because if I had to list all the smaller wins I'd be busy for a while.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

Yeah, welcome back Pistolero! I already was wondering if it was THE one and only El Pistolero

You're Purito on Wielerflits, right? I'm Samus on there lol.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nibali has the better palmarès of the 'big' races perhaps due to variety (Nibs has four GTs and one monument, Valverde has three monuments and one GT), but also factor in the GT stages (the Don has 14 of them to Nibali's 12) and the number of smaller races and Valverde's hard to compete with. As pointed out though, Nibali is four years younger which is a key consideration as well, and also that Valverde lost a few good race results to his postdated ban in 2010.

You mention Bala's 2009 Catalunya win but ignore the two wins in the Clásica San Sebastián though. And once you get to the smaller race victories, obviously Bala's ability to sprint has meant he's got a formidable palmarès of .HC and .1 races that Nibali could never hope to compete with, so it really does depend on how you balance races out. If we keep it to the biggest races, they're fairly similar but you could lean more towards Lo Squalo for converting more into victories (same as the old Menchov vs. Evans debate), but if we take into account all of the palmarès it's hard to argue against Alejandro.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Nibali has the better palmarès of the 'big' races perhaps due to variety (Nibs has four GTs and one monument, Valverde has three monuments and one GT), but also factor in the GT stages (the Don has 14 of them to Nibali's 12) and the number of smaller races and Valverde's hard to compete with. As pointed out though, Nibali is four years younger which is a key consideration as well, and also that Valverde lost a few good race results to his postdated ban in 2010.

You mention Bala's 2009 Catalunya win but ignore the two wins in the Clásica San Sebastián though. And once you get to the smaller race victories, obviously Bala's ability to sprint has meant he's got a formidable palmarès of .HC and .1 races that Nibali could never hope to compete with, so it really does depend on how you balance races out. If we keep it to the biggest races, they're fairly similar but you could lean more towards Lo Squalo for converting more into victories (same as the old Menchov vs. Evans debate), but if we take into account all of the palmarès it's hard to argue against Alejandro.

I don't have much respect for Clasica San Sebastian tbh, but in light of being fair, I'll ad them in.

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

Yeah, welcome back Pistolero! I already was wondering if it was THE one and only El Pistolero

You're Purito on Wielerflits, right? I'm Samus on there lol.

Yes i am! Small world, isn't it?

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

I'm no friend of such a reductive take that looks only at results, and only wins, and only major wins, ignoring non-victory results, lesser wins and most crucially, the context in how results came about, one important factor of which is the role played by luck.

But obeying the constraints imposed in the OP: Nibali

I think they're both equally lucky not being born in the same era as Merckx.

 

[Miburo]

I've missed pistolero, i've even barely witnessed him. Gilbert sucks now though xD

Welcome back

 

[Mr.White]

Valverde. Although Nibali came closer with this Giro win.
Only current cyclist who has a better palmares then Valverde IMO is Contador. Valverde is in the league of Boonen and Cancellara. His palmares is massive. You named only biggest wins, but the guy have nearly 100 victories!!! And he is a freaking climber, not a sprinter! In fact only 3 sprinters in the current peloton have more wins (Cavendish, Greipel and Boonen). Not to mention his unparalleled 6 WCRR medals (all-time record), his 8 GT podiums (record among active riders, shared with Nibali), each of the GT's at least once, his 15 top 10 placings in GT's (active riders record), his 14 GT stage wins (won in all 3 GT's), his 42 WT level wins, and finally and not the least importantly, his 4 WT ranking victories which puts him in the same league with Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault, Kelly and Jalabert.
Nibali's palmares is also very good and full of biggest wins, but I think he lacks a little bit to be in the same league as Valverde

 

[Taxus4a]

Nobody now has the palmares of Valverde, he is the best cyclist of the world of the last years.

Of course Nibali has important achievaments, 2 Giros, Tour, Vuelta, Lombardia,.. but Valverde has a wide palmares, he wins things from february to octover. He has been up there lot of times times in the best races of the world except cobbles...

 

[El Pistolero]

The Olympics this year could be interesting with regard to these two riders.