Who is lying? Evans or Landis?

In the quotations in the opening post, who is lying?

  • Both are truthful. There was protection, but not now.

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Cadel Evans said:
"Cycling [bosses] are doing the right thing to try to clean up the sport". [1]
Floyd Landis said:
“It is known in the peloton that Pat McQuaid, Hein Verbruggen or others responsible at the UCI over the last 20 years have protected some people and not others. That is the way they manipulate results and create stars.” [2]
If it is "known in the peloton" then Evans must know as he is "in the peloton".

So which is it, cycling bosses are "doing the right thing to try to clean up the sport", or they "protect some people [to] manipulate results and create stars"?

Who speaks the truth? Who is lying?
 
When I read what Evans said I thought he meant "cleaning up the sport is the right thing to do", not necessarily "the way cycling bosses are going at it is the proper way to do it and they're not corrupt." But we all know Landis is saying the truth with that one, unless things have changed spectacularly the last few years without giving the appearance of having changed at all.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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hrotha said:
unless things have changed spectacularly the last few years without giving the appearance of having changed at all.
They haven't, because we know McQuaid's ego well enough that he'd require publicity to widely recognize that change. So no change has happened.
 
BotanyBay said:
They haven't, because we know McQuaid's ego well enough that he'd require publicity to widely recognize that change. So no change has happened.
True. I can see it. "The UCI is completely transparent and we're doing things properly and fairly now", "But Mr McQuaid, does that mean the UCI was corrupt and took bribes before?" "Uh no?" "..." "..." "..." "Landis is a liar!"
 
Oct 28, 2010
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I think both quotes are true. A lot of things were made to make cycling cleaner, at least cyclists don't die on their bikes as the result of doping overdose. Now they have to take microdoses of EPO or any other drug not to be detected. But it doesn't mean that some cyclists may not be protected by UCI bosses. It's unfair but it is. These quotes are not incompatible.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Kvinto said:
I think both quotes are true. A lot of things were made to make cycling cleaner, at least cyclists don't die on their bikes as the result of doping overdose. Now they have to take microdoses of EPO or any other drug not to be detected. But it doesn't mean that some cyclists may not be protected by UCI bosses. It's unfair but it is. These quotes are not incompatible.
I totally disagree. McQuaid needs to "bridge the gap" in my humble opinion.

Somewhere along the way we supposedly "got somewhere". I'd like him to admit where we were and only then comment about where we are now.
 
hrotha said:
When I read what Evans said I thought he meant "cleaning up the sport is the right thing to do", not necessarily "the way cycling bosses are going at it is the proper way to do it and they're not corrupt." But we all know Landis is saying the truth with that one, unless things have changed spectacularly the last few years without giving the appearance of having changed at all.
Consider the words in full context:

'We feel a little bit overly scrutinised sometimes. Cycling [bosses] are doing the right thing to try to clean up the sport and they're really doing it with transparency, but just because they catch one person with however many tests they do, it doesn't mean that everyone's a cheat.
Obviously, the "overly scrutinised" remark in the first sentence is a reference to all the testing that is being done, that is, the way they are going at it right now. It is in reference to that that he says "Cycling [bosses] are doing the right thing to try to clean up the sport and they're really doing it with transparency...". He's clearly defending whatever the cycling bosses are doing as "doing the right thing to try to clean up the sport".

The transparency remark also makes me gag.

Look, I don't blame him for saying it. I just don't understand why so many here seem buy it.
 
Oct 25, 2010
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Young pro. Welcome to the ProTour.



I have this image of Jan Raas, Johan Bruyneel, Och and Eddy Merckx pulling up to Taylor Phinney in an old Renault and saying "Get in".
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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Evens wouldn't lie, he just wouldn't. Floyd we all know his story, jelous, bitter, angry at himself for mistreating LeMon. Evens on the other hand super nice guy, dog lover. You can always trust a dog lover, as long as pooch is not named Fido or Tugboat.
 
They're both truthful. Some bosses are trying to clean things up, others are tied to the system. Some are trying to clean things up on the surface but underneath are as corrupt as ever. Some are genuinely trying to clean things up but are unable to because they're tied to the sport's past, and there are too many vested interests for the sport to be either wholly corrupt (sponsorship/races collapse) or wholly clean (too much to sacrifice for too many people).
 
Oct 25, 2010
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flicker said:
Evens wouldn't lie, he just wouldn't. Floyd we all know his story, jelous, bitter, angry at himself for mistreating LeMon. Evens on the other hand super nice guy, dog lover. You can always trust a dog lover, as long as pooch is not named Fido or Tugboat.
You've already admitted to not paying this sport any mind at all for decades on end. You missed not only the Lemond period, but also the entire 90's. And you'd only get the Tugboat jokes because you've picked-up on the inside jokes on forums like this. You've got virtually no context to make a statement like this.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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flicker said:
Evens wouldn't lie, he just wouldn't. Floyd we all know his story, jelous, bitter, angry at himself for mistreating LeMon. Evens on the other hand super nice guy, dog lover. You can always trust a dog lover, as long as pooch is not named Fido or Tugboat.
See, smarter than ya (most posters) think...

Of course Evans is 'pulling the zipper'. Wait until he retires, I'm sure he's got a lucrative book deal in there....
 
Ninety5rpm said:
Consider the words in full context:



Obviously, the "overly scrutinised" remark in the first sentence is a reference to all the testing that is being done, that is, the way they are going at it right now. It is in reference to that that he says "Cycling [bosses] are doing the right thing to try to clean up the sport and they're really doing it with transparency...". He's clearly defending whatever the cycling bosses are doing as "doing the right thing to try to clean up the sport".

The transparency remark also makes me gag.

Look, I don't blame him for saying it. I just don't understand why so many here seem buy it.
Of course you had to dig up that quote where Evans explicitly says the contrary of what I said. :eek:

Okay, I was wrong.
 

flicker

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BotanyBay said:
You've already admitted to not paying this sport any mind at all for decades on end. You missed not only the Lemond period, but also the entire 90's. And you'd only get the Tugboat jokes because you've picked-up on the inside jokes on forums like this. You've got virtually no context to make a statement like this.
You are right but I am up to speed now. I only made the Tugboat comment because I read Tylers' daily TdF diary during the 04 tour. I fell in love with his life and his dog. I was dissappointed when he was busted during the Olympics.

These guys use their dogs and there familys to gain our trust.

I joke about Landis and Greg because of Greg testifying that Landis shared his doping exploits with Greg and then tried to intimidate Greg with something Greg told Landis. That was some backstabbing action by Floyd on Greg.
I think Landis is doing some good now, but what are his motives? Will he change his mind and go back on his story?

Evans I would never call a cheater, but he needs to play politics to remain in the peloton. Who knows what the real truth is as far as what Evans says.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
They're both truthful. Some bosses are trying to clean things up, others are tied to the system. Some are trying to clean things up on the surface but underneath are as corrupt as ever. Some are genuinely trying to clean things up but are unable to because they're tied to the sport's past, and there are too many vested interests for the sport to be either wholly corrupt (sponsorship/races collapse) or wholly clean (too much to sacrifice for too many people).
I keep thinking that one of these days you're gonna post something I disagree with. But you are just not very co-operative with making that happen, by keep coming up with posts like these.

I think the internet way to say the same is: +1. With a random amount of zeros, as exclamation mark indulgence is so 20th century.
 
Landis has exposed the whole truth to the world. His career is over and has no reason to "lie" -even more when an investigation of such caliber is on going.
Evans "must say" what the world "needs" to hear from an athlete currently active-so he never refers or name "Bosses" in a compromising matter- the game can catch up to you if the wrong words come out and he knows that....
 
You would expect Evans to say this, but after McQuaid blatantly lied about the Contador situation to the German reporter and then having it exposed the very next day, only a complete idiot would think the UCI isn't as corrupt as ever.

And to think the same director sportifs who've managed teams all these years are finally finding "religion" is just as idiotic.

If we had a new batch of people running cycling untainted by the past then yes, maybe an argument could be made. But those flatulent exhortations from teams like Sky and Garmin about dedication to clean cycling are just that.

This poll is bogus.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Berzin said:
You would expect Evans to say this, but after McQuaid blatantly lied about the Contador situation to the German reporter and then having it exposed the very next day, only a complete idiot would think the UCI isn't as corrupt as ever.

And to think the same director sportifs who've managed teams all these years are finally finding "religion" is just as idiotic.

If we had a new batch of people running cycling untainted by the past then yes, maybe an argument could be made. But those flatulent exhortations from teams like Sky and Garmin about dedication to clean cycling are just that.

This poll is bogus.
Agreed. Plus, I like your use of 'flatulence' in a somewhat coherent way. Bonus points.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
They're both truthful. Some bosses are trying to clean things up, others are tied to the system. Some are trying to clean things up on the surface but underneath are as corrupt as ever. Some are genuinely trying to clean things up but are unable to because they're tied to the sport's past, and there are too many vested interests for the sport to be either wholly corrupt (sponsorship/races collapse) or wholly clean (too much to sacrifice for too many people).
The Voice of Reason = Libertine Seguros
 
Libertine Seguros said:
They're both truthful. Some bosses are trying to clean things up, others are tied to the system. Some are trying to clean things up on the surface but underneath are as corrupt as ever. Some are genuinely trying to clean things up but are unable to because they're tied to the sport's past, and there are too many vested interests for the sport to be either wholly corrupt (sponsorship/races collapse) or wholly clean (too much to sacrifice for too many people).
+1.

There you go. I found my words again in another forum member.:)

I also have to agree with Berzin about the poll being bogus.
 

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