• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Who's ready for an Astana full deck?

Mar 17, 2009
3
0
0
Visit site
Am I the only one who can't wait to see Astana stack the deck? Bert and Levi were both left alone on stages where there should have been at least one other teammate. Enough of letting the Kahzak kiddies get experience.
Just once I would like Johan pull out all the guns a blazin: Bert, Levi, Klodi, Jani, Popo, Haimar, Hornster, Chechu and okay, maybe Lance. Admittedly a team with four or five leaders might turn into a clusterf*** but it sure would be fun to watch the fireworks.
 
Mar 14, 2009
40
0
0
Visit site
Pete Deco said:
Am I the only one who can't wait to see Astana stack the deck? Bert and Levi were both left alone on stages where there should have been at least one other teammate. Enough of letting the Kahzak kiddies get experience.
Just once I would like Johan pull out all the guns a blazin: Bert, Levi, Klodi, Jani, Popo, Haimar, Hornster, Chechu and okay, maybe Lance. Admittedly a team with four or five leaders might turn into a clusterf*** but it sure would be fun to watch the fireworks.

I DONT KNOW WHY ALBERTO CONTADOR ARE IN THOSE NAMES aND ZUBEILDA; AND NOVAL AND JESUS HERNANDEZ. MAYBE THERE ARE
H^ORS CATEGORIE
 
Mar 11, 2009
86
1
0
Visit site
To have these guys all on one team is detrimental to the quality of the entire field. Everyone else will be to scared to attack astana, we will have the most boring Grand Tour season ever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gregrowlerson
Mar 13, 2009
38
0
0
Visit site
Pete Deco said:
Am I the only one who can't wait to see Astana stack the deck?

Yes, you are. The rest of us prefer to see competitive racing between many teams/riders who could possibly win--preferably racing that is not outrageously juiced with drugs.
 
Mar 17, 2009
7
0
0
Visit site
Argon Man said:
To have these guys all on one team is detrimental to the quality of the entire field. Everyone else will be to scared to attack astana, we will have the most boring Grand Tour season ever.

what he said.
 
Mar 12, 2009
434
0
0
Visit site
mortimer99 said:
what he said.

But to beat that team attack is the only option, otherwise you are playing into their hands and giving up already. The only way is to try and isolate Contador/ Armstrong so they don't have that strength around them!, of course actually doing that may prove extremely difficult but I can't see this years tour being anything but an attack fest.
 
Mar 11, 2009
15
0
0
Visit site
I would love to see it, not for 3 Grand Tours, but for one. Last year we saw CSC packed with a number of strong riders, though not seasoned (Frank and Andy Schleck and Sustre), yet I did not hear anybody whining about them having a strong team. Perhaps it's just because Astana (and more specifically Johan) know how to finish it off and win stage races.
In the past we have seen other teams with 2 or 3 members on the podium (Le Mond and Hinnult), but that race was still exciting. Imagine watching a Contador/Armstrong battle for the overall.
And just to add, I don't hear much about people complaining that Quick Step dominate the Classics. Isn't it interesting how certain teams just know how to win certain types of races, and thus attract specific types of riders?
Perhaps too often we more subjective in our comments than rational. I have no problem with someone saying, "I don't want Astana to win because I don't like them." But let's give credit where it's due.
 
Mar 11, 2009
15
0
0
Visit site
Original post by lookkg386:
But to beat that team attack is the only option, otherwise you are playing into their hands and giving up already. The only way is to try and isolate Contador/ Armstrong so they don't have that strength around them!, of course actually doing that may prove extremely difficult but I can't see this years tour being anything but an attack fest.

I agree. I'd love to see a huge battle where 3 or 4 teams take on a powerhouse Astana team to go for the win. It'd be a showdown of massive proportions.
I think we'll see a little taste of it with Simoni and Cunego teaming up against Armstrong and Basso. What I like about that scenario is that it leaves room for a lesser player, being unnoticed, to slip away and take the race away from the favorites as they focus on each other.
Bring on this year's Grand Tours!
 
Mar 11, 2009
165
0
0
Visit site
We'll see but they need to get organised. In one week alone they've lost the leader's jersey in two fine races. Worse, they've started arguing about it, with even the likes of Bruyneel offering public criticism of Contador.

With friends like this, the atmosphere on the team bus must be miserable. Hopefully they can fix things at the Vuelta Castille y Leon or maybe they need to call up Riis and get the details of his team bonding exercise run by the Danish special forces guys.
 
cyclemad said:
I would love to see it, not for 3 Grand Tours, but for one. Last year we saw CSC packed with a number of strong riders, though not seasoned (Frank and Andy Schleck and Sustre), yet I did not hear anybody whining about them having a strong team. Perhaps it's just because Astana (and more specifically Johan) know how to finish it off and win stage races.
In the past we have seen other teams with 2 or 3 members on the podium (Le Mond and Hinnult), but that race was still exciting. Imagine watching a Contador/Armstrong battle for the overall.
And just to add, I don't hear much about people complaining that Quick Step dominate the Classics. Isn't it interesting how certain teams just know how to win certain types of races, and thus attract specific types of riders?
Perhaps too often we more subjective in our comments than rational. I have no problem with someone saying, "I don't want Astana to win because I don't like them." But let's give credit where it's due.

First of all, you must have missed the complaints/statements coming from Cadel Evans at last year's Tour stating that he was being triple teamed by the CSC/Savo Bank trio of Sastre and the Schleck Bros. as if his other competitors weren't in the same race dealing with the same circumstances.

Secondly there is a vast difference between having 2 riders that have previously finished in the top ten in the Tour in their careers and having 5 riders who have, including 2 of which that have won it on 1 roster and among those 5, 4 who have made it to the podium of the Tour. While it would be a record breaking event, that doesn't translate into exciting racing.
I'm sure Astana and any other team would love to be the first to have all 3 spots on the podium but I personally don't think it is good for the sport overall.

Just to clarify, no team has ever filled all 3 podium spots at the Tour as you state above.

Technically, Quickstep doesn't "dominate" the classics. They are a strong team but with Cancellara of Savo Bank and Ballan of Lampre winning big races last year I wouldn't call Quickstep's wins domination. Yes they are a very strong classics team, likely the strongest. There are other teams out there that can compete with them: Rabobank, Silence-Lotto, and Lampre. The Columbia team has a strong mix of young talent and experienced vets that bodes well for their present and future in the classics . Quickstep is a Belgium team so its only natural that they would attract riders that excell in the most important races in that country. Same with Silence-Lotto. While Evans is a Tour contender they still have a very strong representation of riders for the classics. People don't complain about Quickstep simply because there are other teams that have a shot at victory.

I give credit to Bruyneel for being at the top of current directors when it comes to running and winning grand tours. It helps to have the talent to do so and his success is a major draw to some riders that want to be on the "winning team", hoping some of that success rubs off. Remember what happened in 2006, when all the hype leading up to the Tour foolishly had Hincapie as a potential contender with him sharing team leadership with Popovych and Azevedo. The best Bruyneel's magic could do in this case was a 19th place in the overall by Jose Azevedo.

Stacking the deck is never good for the whole just the one.
 

whiteboytrash

BANNED
Mar 17, 2009
525
0
0
Visit site
Pete Deco said:
Am I the only one who can't wait to see Astana stack the deck? Bert and Levi were both left alone on stages where there should have been at least one other teammate. Enough of letting the Kahzak kiddies get experience.
Just once I would like Johan pull out all the guns a blazin: Bert, Levi, Klodi, Jani, Popo, Haimar, Hornster, Chechu and okay, maybe Lance. Admittedly a team with four or five leaders might turn into a clusterf*** but it sure would be fun to watch the fireworks.

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/sport/nrl/story/0,26746,25644437-5003409,00.html
 
Mar 18, 2009
981
0
0
Visit site

whiteboytrash

BANNED
Mar 17, 2009
525
0
0
Visit site
msjett said:
Rugby league is one of the highest profile sports here in Australia, and the broncos are a successfull high profile team...it makes sense to have a link to raise money for the Livestrong foundation, also it was part of the deal for Armstrong to do TDU we had to put effort and money into cancer charities.

But not sure what this has to do with Astana stacking the deck....;)

Errr Livestrong is not a foundation nor a charity. Its a for profit private organisation. The only deal he had was was one million dollars for himself to speak during the TDU. Thats it.
 
Mar 10, 2009
221
0
0
Visit site
I think Astana, Saxo, Cervelo, Rabobank, Liquidgas and Columbia are all going to be interesting to watch. Riijs isn't going to be giving anything away, not with the crew he's got. Satre may prove to be the big suprise--an underdog although he won last year; but what's new about that? he was an underdog lsat year also. I think Bjarne is a better tactician than Johan and this may porve to be a deciding factor in the overall with Andy Schleck proving to be much better than some of think he is at this point in his career. One thing is for sure: Saxo-Bank will race as a team, I'm not so sure about Astana. I think it's going to a great race with a lot of varibles coming into play on deciding the GC--like how good, or bad, is Andy Schleck at time trialing?
 
Mar 18, 2009
981
0
0
Visit site
whiteboytrash said:
Errr Livestrong is not a foundation nor a charity. Its a for profit private organisation. The only deal he had was was one million dollars for himself to speak during the TDU. Thats it.

Do you live in Australia?

Thank you for pointing out the difference between his organisation and a charity.

Also, it was bandied about that he wanted the government and business to support cancer charities and research.

If he got paid a million dollars to speak here, good on him he is a shrewd business man. I will state it so that we are clear from the start, I don't care about Armstrong, I don't care about the broncos, I was pointing out that it makes sense to use high profile teams in high profile sports for your charity (even if its not one).
 
Mar 18, 2009
2,442
0
0
Visit site
whiteboytrash said:
Thats a joke, yes ? Why would anyone want to live there ?

I can picture WBT waiting at the finish line of the TDU's final stage and begging for Lance's autograph and then handing him a personal cheque for the Livestrong Foundation.
 
Mar 18, 2009
981
0
0
Visit site
elapid said:
I can picture WBT waiting at the finish line of the TDU's final stage and begging for Lance's autograph and then handing him a personal cheque for the Livestrong Foundation.

ahh, I could just imagine it, sadly for me! :p
 
Jun 16, 2009
44
0
0
Visit site
whiteboytrash said:
Errr Livestrong is not a foundation nor a charity. Its a for profit private organisation. The only deal he had was was one million dollars for himself to speak during the TDU. Thats it.



The Lance Armstrong Foundation is what the story in the link refers to. The LAF is a charity.
 
Mar 11, 2009
258
0
0
Visit site
Pete Deco said:
Am I the only one who can't wait to see Astana stack the deck? Bert and Levi were both left alone on stages where there should have been at least one other teammate. Enough of letting the Kahzak kiddies get experience.
Just once I would like Johan pull out all the guns a blazin: Bert, Levi, Klodi, Jani, Popo, Haimar, Hornster, Chechu and okay, maybe Lance. Admittedly a team with four or five leaders might turn into a clusterf*** but it sure would be fun to watch the fireworks.

Yep..Contador has already said that the 'competition' will be within the Astana team, not outside of it with other riders and teams. Johan isn't strong enough to actually 'manage' these guys(Lance wears the pants) and when Lance falters, he will still insist on being the leader..He would be better off in the car than behind it. Meanwhile Sastre, Evans and maybe Menchov will be riding away. The only days that will see Astana cohesion will be TT days.
 
Mar 10, 2009
7,268
1
0
Visit site
To be quite honest, the Galacticos of Astana haven't really 'delivered' this year.

They were invisible in the classics, they lost Paris-Nice with Contador who wasn't exactly there for sightseeing, they didn't even manage to secure a win in the Giro, let alone a podium spot, during the Dauphine I only saw Contador, and I am wondering if Kloden will even be able to go to the TdF, and what his performance will be in Switzerland, knowing he is being eyeballed. The only air time they received was dedicated to the return of a perceived demi-god, a ToC win, infighting and money problems.

The ASTANA team you mention:
AC: Excellent form!
LL: seems to be over the top, too much racing? Super-D, good TT(T)
Kloden: will he go? Indicator is Switzerland. Super-D? good TT(T)
Brajkovich: good helper/escape
Popovich: in the giro he didn't seem to be able to act as a super-D.
Haimar Zubeldia: big questionmark
Horner: recovering from injury, how good can he be in the TdF?
Armstrong: still too heavy for the big climbs? His TTs weren't top 5-fahig either. Is he leader or super-D? In the Giro he seemed to be making his own decision, attacking v. helping LL v. getting dropped in the first week.

But compare this to some of the other teams, like RABOBANK:
Menchov: Good giro, has shown to improve in the next big 3-week event. Good TT(T)
Gesink: 4th in Dauphine, which he used as a warm up this year. Could be a super-D. Good TT(T)
Ten Dam: super-D especially on the climbs, big part in leading Menchov to pink
Freire: getting back after his broken ribs, has a chance to score a victory or even go for the green jersey.
Ardila: good helper on the climbs
Flecha: escapee/domestique
Clement: great TTer and improved on the climbs. Good domestique + TT(T)
Nierman/Moerenhout/Weening: Especially Moerenhout did some good TTs and has a ton of experience in TdFs

SAXO-BANK
A. Schleck: one of the better climbers out there. Avg TT
F. Schleck: small step under his brother? Avg TT
Cancelara: great TT!
Fuglsang: is he going? great result in the Dauphine, good climber - good domestique.
Voigt: super-D/escape
Arvesen: great helper/escape
Breschel: escape-sprinter/helper
O'Grady: Good srpinter, escape

COLUMBIA
Cavendish:green jersey?
Rogers: top7?
Lovkvist: ?top 15?
Boasson-Hagen: strong srpinter/finisher/escape
Monfort: good climber
Sivtsov: escape/good helper
Hincapie: super-D
Kirchen: Top 15?
Grabsch: Great TT
Their roster is so good, I don't even know who to pick

CERVELO
Sastre
Hushovd
Gerrans
Pauwels
if they can come close to what they did in the Giro, this is definitely a team to look out for.

SILENCE LOTTO
Evans: great form
T. Dekker: little bit of a question mark. His TTs are a little under par, and his climbing hasn't been demonstrated yet.
Gilbert: escape/hilly rider. good helper
van Aevermaet: great sprinter.
Sebastian Lang: great TT
VandeBroeck:
Schierlinkcx:
Vansummeren:
Wegelius:
Aerts:

I haven't even talked about Garmin with Millar, Vandevelde, Zabrisky, Tuft and Farrar.

If you compare some of these teams with Astana (where I only see 3-4 great riders), I don't even know if they stand out that much anymore. The only one who is supposed to stand out is Contador, but it remains to be seen if he can win the TdF by himself.
 
Pietro said:
Yep..Contador has already said that the 'competition' will be within the Astana team, not outside of it with other riders and teams.

No, his actual quote according to CN was: "I will have to deal with Menchov, Evans, the Schleck brothers, Sastre AND my teammates Armstrong and Leipheimer." You may as well report the quote accurately.