why I didn't dope

[Raul Ramaya]

Great post by Gregg Germer answering JV NYT piece (how do riders who decide not to dope handle the loss of their dream: http://www.podiuminsight.com/2012/09/06/gregg-germer-why-i-didnt-dope/ (podium insight)

Wouldnt it be great if this inspired others to speak up?

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Good article, great perspective. I'm not good enough to be at that 'pivotal' choice, but it still hits a familiar chord.

What strikes me is the comment about doing "everything legal" to be better. When the regulations/thresholds of so many values are seemingly arbitrarily determined, or chosen in to give some wiggle room for natural variation, many people can get away with a lot within the "everything legal" boundary. Bringing your testosterone to 3.999:1, or being a Mr. 49.999%, even the sentiment of "everything legal", can be amoral in terms of fairplay and genuine competition.

 

[GreggGermer]

What strikes me is the comment about doing "everything legal" to be better. When the regulations/thresholds of so many values are seemingly arbitrarily determined, or chosen in to give some wiggle room for natural variation, many people can get away with a lot within the "everything legal" boundary. Bringing your testosterone to 3.999:1, or being a Mr. 49.999%, even the sentiment of "everything legal", can be amoral in terms of fairplay and genuine competition.

When I wrote "everything legal" I was trying to convey the lengths I was going to to ride naturally. Spending to much time in the Clinic can lead to people auto-replacing keywords in articles with their doping euphemisms.

I'll repeat that I never took anything and never did anything to bring any of my levels of blood or testosterone up to some wada defined variable. I explored as many natural ways to get the most out of what my body would give. I am not a naturally gifted road cyclist, so I had to work quite hard at it. Doing anything illegal to bring ones levels up to the "legal" limit is still illegal last time I checked ... it may present a moral loophole to some, but not to me.

Also, I want people to know I do believe there were others who rode clean and made it to the top. How many? I don't know? I can only speak for myself. I do know there were others who couldn't ride their way out of wet paper bag while on dope, so it isn't always the "magic sauce" people believe.

Gregg

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Also, I want people to know I do believe there were others who rode clean and made it to the top.

At least one of your former teammates is doing quite okay at Garmin nowadays.

Great article, good to see you are teaching youngsters the moral standards you clearly have.

 

[hrotha]

Interesting read! I wonder what it must have been like for a clean rider to be a teammate of Dave Bruylandts.

 

[GreggGermer]

Interesting read! I wonder what it must have been like for a clean rider to be a teammate of Dave Bruylandts.

Was Dr. Dave my teammate? Really? (inserte huge sarcastic snark)

Dr. Dave was an interesting guy to have on the "team", but to call him a team mate is hard because I did maybe three races he was at. In fact, he wanted little to do with the team and treated racing his bike like I treated the factory job I had after I stopped cycling ... he just clocked in and rode his bike. I can't even recall him ever even trying to speak to me.

I ran into Dave about two years ago at the start of Scheldeprijs with another old teammate from Klaipeda, Roel, and he introduced himself to me "Hi, I'm Dave" and Roel was like "Dave, we were teammates with Gregg on Klaipeda" and was like "Really? Are you sure?". This is how much he invested himself into being part of the "team". Rumor was he made €50K to be on the team, but then again, I can't say if that was true or even if true that he was paid that by the team knowing the financial situation they were in.

I didn't particularly enjoy having a well known doper as a "teammate" but then again, he was never around, so it wasn't a problem. Ramunsas and many of the other Lithuanians (along with Roel) were the guys I raced with at about 90% of the big races I did.

 

[the asian]

Good article and good to know that Gregg is still involved in some cycling in some capacity.
When did you retire from racing? Was it in 2007?

 

[GreggGermer]

Good article and good to know that Gregg is still involved in some cycling in some capacity.
When did you retire from racing? Was it in 2007?

2007 was my last year ...

 

[LauraLyn]

When I wrote "everything legal" I was trying to convey the lengths I was going to to ride naturally. Spending to much time in the Clinic can lead to people auto-replacing keywords in articles with their doping euphemisms.

I'll repeat that I never took anything and never did anything to bring any of my levels of blood or testosterone up to some wada defined variable. I explored as many natural ways to get the most out of what my body would give. I am not a naturally gifted road cyclist, so I had to work quite hard at it. Doing anything illegal to bring ones levels up to the "legal" limit is still illegal last time I checked ... it may present a moral loophole to some, but not to me.

Also, I want people to know I do believe there were others who rode clean and made it to the top. How many? I don't know? I can only speak for myself. I do know there were others who couldn't ride their way out of wet paper bag while on dope, so it isn't always the "magic sauce" people believe.

Gregg

Gregg, it is a great article. And it is good that at this time people are reminded what it takes to ride clean - and what it (potentially) costs. Yours is not coming out of a confession of cheating or lying, but a confession of honesty and integrity. In a way it says much more than books and pages of articles by those who have cheated (though we need those too).

I was particularly impressed by your restraint when writing that. You never refer to Armstrong and you never take pot shots at others who have come clean. You are not selling your achievement, you are simply stating it.

USA Cycling or UCI needs you.

Keep wearing your wristbands.

 

[Mr.38%]

Gregg, good luck with the ChainStay. Are you also there during April?

 

[Cloxxki]

Thanks for sharing the great article Gregg.

I'll just summarize my story to support that you were not one crazy guy. Before the whole media declared every cylist a doper, and thus justified the deeds of those in the spotlight for making bad choices.

I was too lazy to get to your level myself*, and not much of a roadie anyways, more of an MTB guy. But I did get to ride against some of the doped road pro's once in a while, and the huge difference was depressing. Despite my gurus and the medical check doc stating that my output way up there with those guys.
I wasn't offered doping, I didn't get that far. But my choice was conscious from the start, although in hard times, the temptation can creep up closer to the forefront.

It's important that young riders are helped in makin gtheir clean choice work for them. With legal supplements that you don't need to hide from testers, with smart training, and balanced nuttricion. Doping is a mentally lazy choice often. Lots of gains, easily. I know in my heart that supplements can make a great, healthy improvement on performance. I've seen my own results. Showing up to a race barely fit, a course that never suited me, and a cocktail of herbs before the race made it really, really, much better than was to be expected. Not a 10% blood doping gain, but if you've made enough laps on your bike, against the same competitors every week, 3% or less can be well noticed. Even by competitors noting you wouldn't crack, or just ride off into the distance.

Congrats on a great and clean career, keep spreading the good word.

J
* 506W max at 82kg in the off-season (and yes, I was lazy in terms of training), running shoes on platform pedals and way too short cranks at the doc's office.

 

[GreggGermer]

I was particularly impressed by your restraint when writing that. You never refer to Armstrong and you never take pot shots at others who have come clean. You are not selling your achievement, you are simply stating it.

That was my intention, I wanted to state my case, not others. I can't control what others were doing, only what I did.

USA Cycling or UCI needs you.

Maybe ... but I'm happy doing things the way I do. I'm not sure my working in either the UCI or USAC would help in the ways I feel make a difference.

 

[the big ring]

Maybe ... but I'm happy doing things the way I do. I'm not sure my working in either the UCI or USAC would help in the ways I feel make a difference.

Can masters racers come and stay at ChainStay too? Or is it just the young guys?

I have your place penciled in for next year.

 

[Benotti69]

Congrats Gregg for riding in the pro game for so many years and not doping.

 

[GreggGermer]

Gregg, good luck with the ChainStay. Are you also there during April?

I am a full time resident of Belgium these days and run The ChainStay year round. In fact we are busy booking up the house of the 2013 Spring Classics for accommodation and the day trips we run for Paris-Roubaix and the Tour of Flanders.

 

[GreggGermer]

Can masters racers come and stay at ChainStay too? Or is it just the young guys?

I have your place penciled in for next year.

We accept all at The ChainStay. I don't ever ask for a resume because I let Belgium's racing sort you out if you think your game.

There are some periods that are better than others for racing. I'm working out next seasons road schedule as we are going to try and plan out some youth and junior (plus a U23) trips with Vertex Cycling that we work with. We are looking to do a bit more and build a structure to help teach kids how to be better bike races young, skills and knowledge that took me years to learn and now I look back at wish someone had sat me down and told me (more than half of which is information that has nothing to do with training and racing, ie. social media, marketing yourself, networking, etc).

Once I have our schedule of bookings we will be posting it to the site in the next month.

-Gregg-

 

[Mr.38%]

I am a full time resident of Belgium these days and run The ChainStay year round. In fact we are busy booking up the house of the 2013 Spring Classics for accommodation and the day trips we run for Paris-Roubaix and the Tour of Flanders.

I will finally be able to do a training camp next year (family approved) and was thinking about racing in BE instead of training on Mallorca. Oudenaarde would be even more interesting than Leuven, where I originally planned to stay. 7-9 races in 10 days sounds tempting...

Will drop you a mail.

 

[cineteq]

I am a full time resident of Belgium these days and run The ChainStay year round.

Great read Gregg, thanks! Btw, does being a Belgium resident has to do also with liking great beer? Cheers!

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Wow great story and Gregg's capacity to empathize with people whose choices adversely affected his career is particularly impressive.

The comment about wanting to see how far you could get (clean) interested me in terms of understanding the thinking that pushes people towards or away from doping. It's almost as if, consciously or otherwise, the dream was reframed from wanting to make it as a cyclist, to wanting to TRY and make it.....?

It's great to have such a perspective added to the discussion, as well as another reminder that not all bike riders charge!!

 

[Cloxxki]

Wow great story and Gregg's capacity to empathize with people whose choices adversely affected his career is particularly impressive.

The comment about wanting to see how far you could get (clean) interested me in terms of understanding the thinking that pushes people towards or away from doping. It's almost as if, consciously or otherwise, the dream was reframed from wanting to make it as a cyclist, to wanting to TRY and make it.....?

It's great to have such a perspective added to the discussion, as well as another reminder that not all bike riders charge!!

On the running track, I get to deal with Juniors who look up to star athletes. And they are also reading the doping allegations, and suspensions, and feel conflicted.
I tell them there are other road to chose, between water&bread and evil doping. That if they are ready to commit, there is a world there of things to do to become a faster runner. I hope they take it to heart.
One VERY talented girl in her 20's expressed dislike of dopers, but also of the in her eyes many with unlegitimate TUE for inhalers. The national Fed's doc wouldn;t give her one, as she has no allergies or other lung issues (very comforting to hear, BTW. Anyway, I asked if she was using any supplements, and turns out she's been on creatine (the basic kind) for years already. Yet wishing she'd stay leaner. I gave her a few affordable supplements to do research on, and name of a seller I'd vouch for (guru of mine). She went on to extend her career, take it to the next level. In doing so, she did get to (have to) train with very, very dodgy runners and possibly coaches. I hope I did my part in offering an path she could feel ethically good by, forever.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

When I wrote "everything legal" I was trying to convey the lengths I was going to to ride naturally. Spending to much time in the Clinic can lead to people auto-replacing keywords in articles with their doping euphemisms.

I'll repeat that I never took anything and never did anything to bring any of my levels of blood or testosterone up to some wada defined variable. I explored as many natural ways to get the most out of what my body would give. I am not a naturally gifted road cyclist, so I had to work quite hard at it. Doing anything illegal to bring ones levels up to the "legal" limit is still illegal last time I checked ... it may present a moral loophole to some, but not to me.

Also, I want people to know I do believe there were others who rode clean and made it to the top. How many? I don't know? I can only speak for myself. I do know there were others who couldn't ride their way out of wet paper bag while on dope, so it isn't always the "magic sauce" people believe.

Gregg

I hope I didn't imply that you did, that was not my intention. I was talking about a more hypothetical athlete who could use the phrase "everything legal" to veil dirty practices yet legitimate. Unfortunately, the morality/decision making which you demonstrate is difficult to standardize into rules and biological parameters.

 

[Scatto]

Was Dr. Dave my teammate? Really? (inserte huge sarcastic snark)

Dr. Dave was an interesting guy to have on the "team", but to call him a team mate is hard because I did maybe three races he was at. In fact, he wanted little to do with the team and treated racing his bike like I treated the factory job I had after I stopped cycling ... he just clocked in and rode his bike. I can't even recall him ever even trying to speak to me.
...

Funny story. No insider at all, it seemed to me that Bruylandts was actually very fond of racing. When his case was still undecided, he appeared a few times as a commentator on tv. He was quite passionate and knowledgeable about the other riders, if I recall correctly.

Dopers are humans too, only less brave then guys like you. Respect.

 

[GreggGermer]

Funny story. No insider at all, it seemed to me that Bruylandts was actually very fond of racing. When his case was still undecided, he appeared a few times as a commentator on tv. He was quite passionate and knowledgeable about the other riders, if I recall correctly.

Dopers are humans too, only less brave then guys like you. Respect.

Dave never make the effort to be friends with / get to know me or the other foreign riders (and I speak Flemish), so I wasn't about to go out of my way to make friends with a guy nicknamed "Dr. Dave". As anyone who frequents the clinic knows association is not a good thing when it comes to dopers.

Me may be passionate about cycling, but the vibe I got from him was he was riding the last of the coat-tails from his past results and was "taking the money and running". He refused to do bigger events like GP Scheldeprijs and others because he didn't want to compare himself to his previous self (as was explained by a souginuer). I was happy with that choice as it left more chance for me to ride bigger races.

Dopers are human, one reason why I empathize with them (but still hate their actions with every part of me). I don't think I was that brave, and kinda feel a little weird with all the attention I've received. I'm sure there were those who were much more talented than I and didn't make it because of doping.

For me doping was only one part of the problem that impeded my career, financial considerations and regulations regarding the hiring of foreign riders in Belgium also had a large impact on my stopping. But to deny the hinderance of doping overall to my (and others) careers is not going to do the subject justice, which is why I wanted to tell my story.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Dave never make the effort to be friends with / get to know me or the other foreign riders (and I speak Flemish), so I wasn't about to go out of my way to make friends with a guy nicknamed "Dr. Dave". As anyone who frequents the clinic knows association is not a good thing when it comes to dopers.

Me may be passionate about cycling, but the vibe I got from him was he was riding the last of the coat-tails from his past results and was "taking the money and running". He refused to do bigger events like GP Scheldeprijs and others because he didn't want to compare himself to his previous self (as was explained by a souginuer). I was happy with that choice as it left more chance for me to ride bigger races.

Dopers are human, one reason why I empathize with them (but still hate their actions with every part of me). I don't think I was that brave, and kinda feel a little weird with all the attention I've received. I'm sure there were those who were much more talented than I and didn't make it because of doping.

For me doping was only one part of the problem that impeded my career, financial considerations and regulations regarding the hiring of foreign riders in Belgium also had a large impact on my stopping. But to deny the hinderance of doping overall to my (and others) careers is not going to do the subject justice, which is why I wanted to tell my story.

Glad you are doing well Gregg.
I am sure the folks out at the picnic loop tuesdays or Cullen park would love to see you around sometime. But hey it is not Belgie. More power to yah.

 

[Flux Capacity]

I've seen my own results. Showing up to a race barely fit, a course that never suited me, and a cocktail of herbs before the race made it really, really, much better than was to be expected..

Safron, turmeric and beetroot juice?