Why I quit

[Barrus]

Since the truth is out about that lying cheating son of a ***** Joe Papp and RR, it appears that I can come clean as to why I quit as a moderator/administrator over here. I have not been on here often and I have not posted on here for quite a while, but this new situation ensured that I felt compelled to post on here. I have not brought any of this up earlier due to the fact that RR did not want this and due to the fact that this was an issue that was kept between the moderators/staff. But since it is out in the open and RR stated that it was allowed to bring up on the forum, otherwise I would have kept quiet out of respect for those involved

Please be clear, that I still don't know RR his true identity, nor do I care all that much about that

This issue happened quite a while back, so excuse me if I am not completely clear on the details anymore.

A while back it came to the attention of the CN staff that Joe Papp used a false method to get to know the identity of RR. He did so in order to get this information to LA and associates who had offered him money, or some manner of help in getting a lighter sentence for his doping related offences. My opinion in this case was that Joe Papp needed to be banned immediately and there needed to be some sort of insurance that such a situation would not occur again. I kept going after the real staff of the website in order to know where they would stand and what they would do. This answer did not come for several weeks, I found this so appalling and such a lack of respect for the owners/staff of the actual website towards the volunteer staff and the members of this forum that I issued an ultimatum, either the staff would give some sort of answer towards, at least, the staff or I was off the moderating team. Clearly they did not care.

Frankly I was not the only member of the moderation team that had issues with this decision, but I was the only person who was impulsive enough at the time to hang it up (others stayed around hoping to change stuff for the better, but later found out they were unable to do so)


RR himself did not want Joe Papp banned or that this knowledge would become widely available, due to the situation in which Papp found himself at that point in time. Still my opinion was that as soon as this knowledge was available to the staff that measures needed to be taken against Papp, even before speaking to RR.
After having consulted with RR the staff decided to do nothing and leave everything as is, without any guidance for what to do in the future. And frankly without any consultation of the people who ran the forum for them day in and day out. They did not seem to care about the privacy and the security of their members.

This is pretty much the cliff notes version of why I quit. I will keep up with this thread and answer any questions that might arise from this. But I think I will still be done with this forum entirely outside of this topic

BTW anyone want to contact me personally, or privately either go to twitter, or you know where

 

[thirteen]

i can only say that is it way after my bedtime (still jet-laggeed), but i am stunned snd disgusted.

i truly hope this thread is still here when i wake.

and, Barrus, chapeau.

 

[Anonymous]

Disturbing stuff.

So many things running in the background, it's so bloody complicated, even more so for a relative newbie like myself who doesn't now the full context.
It's similar to the plot of movie "Conspiracy theory" :/ when conspiracy theory is proven to be true!

How did Papp find out RR's identity, through the forum or by some other means?

 

[Barrus]

Disturbing stuff.

So many things running in the background, it's so bloody complicated, even more so for a relative newbie like myself who doesn't now the full context.
It's similar to the plot of movie "Conspiracy theory" :/ when conspiracy theory is proven to be true!

How did Papp find out RR's identity, through the forum or by some other means?

As I said I don't know the entire thing anymore, but I believe he tried to convince RR that he wanted help with his case. This went on for a while until at a certain point RR sent either an e-mail or a pm with his e-mail. All the while Papp was misreprestenting the truth and just did these things to gain knowledge of RR his real identity. As such he put up a falsehood with the aid of this forum

 

[Race Radio]

Looks like the fixed the log in issue, something about a confirmation email that I did not receive

I do not have much time or energy to dwell on this as I am sitting in a cab driving into Chicago.

Yes, Papp reached out to me a few years back via PM's on this forum. He said he desperately needed my help. After a bunch of PM's we switched to emails. He would not tell me why he needed my help, just that he needed it badly. He said he not confide in me unless he knew my name, which I would not tell him.

Then, likely during a jeglagged haze, I accidently responded to him on my mobile using my personal email that had my name. Never heard from him again.

A few days later I heard from a few people he had sold my info to Herman. I then heard it from more people.....People I trust

I told the mods here about it but asked that nothing be done as I did not want to interfere with Joe's sentencing, the other investigation, or draw attention to it. I said we could revisit it when all that stuff was over

When "all that stuff was over" I asked that it be addressed. I heard nothing. I pushed again. Heard nothing. I finally reach out to Dan and he said he was not going to do anything and it was not open for discussion.

It is disturbing that someone could use the forum to do something like this. I never would have engaged with Joe if he had not sent me a PM here. Simple as that.

 

[Barrus]

So it was Joe Papp who released RR true identity( I don't know who he is).

I never liked Papp anyway. I had to laugh at an interview he once did with Juliet Macur and she wrote anti-doping advocate. I had to laugh. He goes around painting himself like this but has a thread here on this forum displaying his unconditional love for Vino and lashes out at people who criticise Vino's doping. Two-faced fraud who only ever admitted his mistakes when he was backed into a corner and had nowhere to go.

What he did to RR, he should be banned for life from this forum. He is no loss anyway. I don't care if you ban me for what I am saying because I think this needs to be said. I just think CN/Mods/Adminstrations need to have a good look at themselves if they don't take the neccessary action about this.

If he does'nt get banned, the whole forum should get together and put him on ignore.

He should not be banned because of the public outcry, it is a damn indictment to the entire CN forum staff (And I don't mean the volunteers here) that he has not been banned a long time ago.

Also RR thank you for the information, I did not know the follow-up, mainly because I wasn't a moderator at that point in time for quite a decent amount of time already

 

[Anonymous]

Thank you for posting, RR!

I must say that this information will possibly stir things up on this forum. And it would be for the better, if the things like that can happen!

Hopefully you will keep posting on the forum, but if you don't, it is completely understandable after this bad episode you've experienced. You can say CN doesn't deserve you, but forum members need you.
I will follow the Twitter, keep up the great work!

 

[Tinman]

Looks like the fixed ...

welcome back. You were one of the reasons this relative newb joined. Always figured your leaving wasn't just a trolling issue. Following you on twitter but not the same.

Hope you will keep posting here, for the bigger cause.

 

[palmerq]

this was ages ago if i remember right

 

[ChrisE]

this was ages ago if i remember right

That's all you have to say?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That's all you have to say?

"it was a long time ago.... The forum is much better now that software has been introduced that identifies banned users and trolls instantly. It is a lot cleaner than it was a few years ago. Time to move on...."

 

[mewmewmew13]

Wow. My instincts about Papp were 100% correct.
Zero integrity, spineless, **** kisser. A true hero.

Not deserving of any more of my thought processes.

 

[Microchip]

...A while back it came to the attention of the CN staff that Joe Papp used a false method to get to know the identity of RR. He did so in order to get this information to LA and associates who had offered him money...

Could hardly believe this. What is more, can't believe it was just swept under the carpet and he was allowed to stay and post freely.

 

[Microchip]

...A while back it came to the attention of the CN staff that Joe Papp used a false method to get to know the identity of RR. He did so in order to get this information to LA and associates ...

Could hardly believe this! And what is more, that he was allowed to continue to post freely. Really, I think it puts this forum in poor light.

 

[patricknd]

Wow. My instincts about Papp were 100% correct.
Zero integrity, spineless, **** kisser. A true hero.

Not deserving of any more of my thought processes.

What a shock!!! The noble, repentant ex-doper/dealer once again shows his true colors

I heard about this a couple of months ago and I can't believe it stayed quiet for so long. Have to say barrus, it's nice that someone here showed some balls and decency. Good for you

And the new log in stuff sucks

 

[palmerq]

That's all you have to say?

pretty much.. i wanted to say this was ages ago and that I dont think this is the reason race radio quit the forum this time... from what i remember race radio said he did not want joe papp to be banned and this added to the fact that it happened off the forum ended up meaning no ban for him, although I was not involved in this but that is what i remember from the discussion about it

 

[mewmewmew13]

What a shock!!! The noble, repentant ex-doper/dealer once again shows his true colors

I heard about this a couple of months ago and I can't believe it stayed quiet for so long. Have to say barrus, it's nice that someone here showed some balls and decency. Good for you

And the new log in stuff sucks

Yes, Barrus has style.

Yes, the new log in stuff blows....

 

[Dr. Maserati]

pretty much.. i wanted to say this was ages ago and that I dont think this is the reason race radio quit the forum this time... from what i remember race radio said he did not want joe papp to be banned and this added to the fact that it happened off the forum ended up meaning no ban for him, although I was not involved in this but that is what i remember from the discussion about it

To be fair - this isn't really your fight? Is it.

You are a volunteer mod and this appears to have happened (or not happened) at a level above yours. This needs some sort of clarification from the powers that be a Future.

 

[palmerq]

To be fair - this isn't really your fight? Is it.

You are a volunteer mod and this appears to have happened (or not happened) at a level above yours. This needs some sort of clarification from the powers that be a Future.

yes it doesnt have much to do with me, i just wanted to explain that i really dont think this has much to do with race radios most recent leaving of the forum as it must have been some time ago, years infact, athough my memory is a bit hazy...

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

So very low...

That just stinks! While I've actually enjoyed many of Joe's posts and agreed with a fair number of them too, any respect I may have had for the guy is now erased. What a high pressure nozzle!

 

[Maxiton]

Yeah, it puts the forum in a very poor light.

Papp. This was the guy who was selling drugs to racers even as he was testifying against other racers for drug use. Even Armstrong would blanch at that. I'd heard this about Papp and consequently didn't have much use for him. But some yahoos on this forum thought he'd reformed and I was finally convinced, mostly. Just goes to show, never doubt your own instincts. It's almost always a mistake when you do.

And as for this place. How can you say that it "happened outside the forum"? Of course something of it, some component, happened outside the forum, unless you've instituted wire transfer capability: the money changed hands outside the forum. But the offense happened inside the forum, when the forum was used to gain a member's trust, and when its private message (PM) capability was used to communicate with the victim.

Has it ever occurred to you that you might have some legal exposure here? If something happens that leads RR to sue Armstrong and/or Papp in civil court, you could be liable, too, especially in light of having taken no action once you learned of this. And if something of a criminal nature were to happen to RR - which, given who we're dealing with, is not outside the realm of possibility - the company that owns and runs this forum, and the employees making the decisions, could maybe have some kind of criminal liability - who knows?

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. I can't believe you people!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

yes it doesnt have much to do with me, i just wanted to explain that i really dont think this has much to do with race radios most recent leaving of the forum as it must have been some time ago, years infact, athough my memory is a bit hazy...

Just to clarify - I welcome your input here on this thread.
But I think it is only fair on you that it is pointed out that you would have limited ability (and perhaps knowledge of) what is being addressed here.
What has happened he is not a reflection on the individual mods - but on how Future operates the forum.

 

[palmerq]

Just to clarify - I welcome your input here on this thread.
But I think it is only fair on you that it is pointed out that you would have limited ability (and perhaps knowledge of) what is being addressed here.
What has happened he is not a reflection on the individual mods - but on how Future operates the forum.

yes that is all true... and I will not close or delete the thread or anything like that, I guess it is something that needs to be discussed and I will give my honest opinion on this matter wheter people like it or not.... I think I have to defend the forum... be nice to me I am operating from memory here it was a while ago, if I remember correctly this matter was brought up in the mods section of the forum (it exists, no use pretending it doesnt).. It was very odd, as only some of it occured on the forum, not sure what i said should happend, i would have guessed a ban as it is my usual answer S:. but then mr benson was posting aswell and it from what I understood race radio did not want joe banned and a lot of this happened off forum so some how joe papp was not banned and that was that and no one including the involved parties wanted this to be brought to light..


i think this may be needed in a different thread but.....
I think the main point of my postings is that there really is no conspiracy on this forum about getting more clicks or advertisments.. being one of the mods/admins I am just some fellow who does not have a computer at work and come home to see people saying the mods are on the payroll and only care about advertising clicks and it is just not true, the only one who is on the cycing news payroll is susan and she is a journalist who does this modding in the spare time and quite frankly she does a great job, she does by far the most here despite having a fulltime job elswhere and from my dealings with here there is nothing but honesty in her intentions, so I am a bit upset people say the admin and mods are on the payroll or only care about advertising clicks because it is so far from the truth it is amazing..

anyway i guess it is off topic some other mod can deal with it. but you guys be nice to susan ok!

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Looks like the fixed the log in issue, something about a confirmation email that I did not receive

I do not have much time or energy to dwell on this as I am sitting in a cab driving into Chicago.

Yes, Papp reached out to me a few years back via PM's on this forum. He said he desperately needed my help. After a bunch of PM's we switched to emails. He would not tell me why he needed my help, just that he needed it badly. He said he not confide in me unless he knew my name, which I would not tell him.

Then, likely during a jeglagged haze, I accidently responded to him on my mobile using my personal email that had my name. Never heard from him again.

A few days later I heard from a few people he had sold my info to Herman. I then heard it from more people.....People I trust

I told the mods here about it but asked that nothing be done as I did not want to interfere with Joe's sentencing, the other investigation, or draw attention to it. I said we could revisit it when all that stuff was over

When "all that stuff was over" I asked that it be addressed. I heard nothing. I pushed again. Heard nothing. I finally reach out to Dan and he said he was not going to do anything and it was not open for discussion.

It is disturbing that someone could use the forum to do something like this. I never would have engaged with Joe if he had not sent me a PM here. Simple as that.

Interesting, Papp got me to email him outside of here too just a few months ago. I emailed him from my law school email so he has most of my personal information. If I remember correctly, it happened pretty soon after Lance and I had an altercation on Twitter. Hmm...

He engaged me in the same way. PM here and then asked for my personal email. Interestingly, it started with me asking him if he thought Lance would screw with my personal life because of the altercation I had with Lance on twitter...In fact, here is the PM between Joe and I where he gave me his personal email address. I will black out the email address, but it does make me wonder now...Probably nothing illegal, but maybe some civil liability if my personal information ends up in the public sphere. Maybe not in my case since I gave my name on Twitter and here, though I didn't give my legal name, I used the nickname I have always gone by...but my school email has my legal name.

Here is the PM

I can understand your being concerned, but I wouldn't worry about it. If anything, allow yourself to be flattered that he sparred with you. I won't tell anyone (that you're silently pleased lol

I don't think you have anything to worry about, since your interaction was so transitory, and ... I can't think of the word. Not "random," but it's like he just picked it out of the ether. Ultimately, unless you've got secret recordings or photos of him doping, or would testify to his doping (like TexPat would), then I don't think you'd be considered a threat and so you should be fine, safe...

What did you think of the cyclingnews.com piece? I'm not well-versed in the law (or even inadequately-versed in it - I'm just not versed in it!) but it struck me as being incongruent w/ what I know.

What do you think Armstrong's best response is, both specifically w/ respect to the anti-doping charges, but then also in the broader context, and how whatever could happen in the arbitration might impact him w/ respect to potential criminal or civil/monetary (??) liability in other areas?

You can email me. I'd be interested in chewing it over.

Cheers,

JP

email redacted

We emailed back and forth a couple of times, and then nothing more.

 

[Maxiton]

Interesting, Papp got me to email him outside of here too just a few months ago. I emailed him from my law school email so he has most of my personal information. If I remember correctly, it happened pretty soon after Lance and I had an altercation on Twitter. Hmm...

He engaged me in the same way. PM here and then asked for my personal email. Interestingly, it started with me asking him if he thought Lance would screw with my personal life because of the altercation I had with Lance on twitter...In fact, here is the PM between Joe and I where he gave me his personal email address. I will black out the email address, but it does make me wonder now...Probably nothing illegal, but maybe some civil liability if my personal information ends up in the public sphere. Maybe not in my case since I gave my name on Twitter and here, though I didn't give my legal name, I used the nickname I have always gone by...but my school email has my legal name.

Here is the PM


We emailed back and forth a couple of times, and then nothing more.

It's pretty obvious, isn't it?