why is conserving energy seen as genius now ?

[The Hitch]

Regarding yesterday we heard a lot about how gerrans outsmarted canc how hes"played" him how the clever rider won. not just on here but from ds's too.
i don't get this. everyone knows that if you follow a rider you save energy. Obviously you will be better off if you don't pull. is that some sort of secret only available to the intelligent now ?

Are people saying canc didn't know he was helping others more than himself. That he has no clue that riding out of the wind saves energy ?it seems so.

this is ridiculous. First of all canc did ask the others to help him. but they refused. from then canc knew that it was his only chance at contesting the win. There was no time to continue to pest nibali and gerrans for their contribution.

gerrans won the tactical battle not by being smarter but because he is not cancellara.

credit his strength and his sprint but to credit him as some sort of genius because he followed wheels. that's like crediting a footballer for kicking the ball in the right direction.w

 

[movingtarget]

Regarding yesterday we heard a lot about how gerrans outsmarted canc how hes"played" him how the clever rider won. not just on here but from ds's too.
i don't get this. everyone knows that if you follow a rider you save energy. Obviously you will be better off if you don't pull. is that some sort of secret only available to the intelligent now ?

Are people saying canc didn't know he was helping others more than himself. That he has no clue that riding out of the wind saves energy ?it seems so.

this is ridiculous. First of all canc did ask the others to help him. but they refused. from then canc knew that it was his only chance at contesting the win. There was no time to continue to pest nibali and gerrans for their contribution.

gerrans won the tactical battle not by being smarter but because he is not cancellara.

credit his strength and his sprint but to credit him as some sort of genius because he followed wheels. that's like crediting a footballer for kicking the ball in the right direction.w

You have answered the question yourself.

"gerrans won the tactical battle not by being smarter but because he is not cancellara."

Gerrans did what he had to to do win. No different to riders that win many other races. Bunch sprinters do it all the time and nothing is said. If Gerrans and Nibali had tried to do turns with Cancellara they would only have slowed him down and none of them would have won.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Yeup. Latching on to save energy in these kind of small breaks then coming around to win at the line has been done for years, including by today's DS's... for example Bruyneel beating Indurain in stage 7 of the 1995 Tour.

 

[ElChingon]

Yeup. Latching on to save energy in these kind of small breaks then coming around to win at the line has been done for years, including by today's DS's... for example Bruyneel beating Indurain in stage 7 of the 1995 Tour.

Being gifted a stage by a Tour winner who has more important things on his plate, and who's latchee knows this and forces him to the front because of such a situation is not the same thing.

There's a fine line between saving energy and just sucking wheel, sure all three got there but they stayed away because of Fabian not because they were working together to stay away. Yes different agenda's but as far as I'm concerned the real races are remembered, the gifted, wheel sucked wins, and doping ban wins.... well they go down the toilet pretty fast.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

People should stop calling Pipo Pozzato a wheelsucker.

 

[austy37]

can we just merge this thread with the other 'Gerrans win was crap' thread?

 

[theyoungest]

Indeed. Hennie Kuiper said it, "cycling is emptying the other guy's plate before you start your own". Nothing genius about it, just the basics of cycling.

 

[jens_attacks]

i don't think there is someone in this world who said gerrans was genius.still he did the right thing for himself,he won.and that's it.
i also felt bad after the race but after two-three hours i got over it.plus cancellara even has under his belt a san remo.no biggie.watch out for gerrans in the ardennes!

 

[Panda Claws]

i don't think there is someone in this world who said gerrans was genius.still he did the right thing for himself,he won.and that's it.
i also felt bad after the race but after two-three hours i got over it.plus cancellara even has under his belt a san remo.no biggie.watch out for gerrans in the ardennes!

Yeah Gerrans might finish on the podium in AGR and FW again.

 

[Kvinto]

I don't mind if people call this way of saving energy smart, i just don't like when they say Cancellara is stupid. Yesterday, he had prevented the race from a 40-men bunch sprint. Had he stayed in the bunch or refused to drag Gerrans and Nibali to the finish, he wouldn't have stood any chance agains Freire, Sagan or Boonen. Even dragging these two and sprinting from the first position he was closer to the win, than if he were in the bunch.

Gerrans had taken advantage of this and it made him a winner.

On the other hand Liquigas. I know that it's easy to make conclusions like this after the race but nevertheless if you have 3 guys in the top-10 and none out of these 3 wins i call this performance bad while the tactics - not smart.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

he wouldn't have stood any chance agains Freire, Sagan or Boonen.

He might not have, but Bennati might. And cycling still is a team sport.

I also don't get this topic. Nobody is calling Gerrans a genius. We just call him smarter than Cancellara, which is hard to deny in my opinion.

 

[Cancellator]

He might not have, but Bennati might. And cycling still is a team sport.

I also don't get this topic. Nobody is calling Gerrans a genius. We just call him smarter than Cancellara, which is hard to deny in my opinion.

Do you seriously believe that I-never-win-sprints-Bennati would have gotten a better place in the sprint than Cancellara in the break? He was the 7th out of the bunch wasn't he?

Cancellara gambled and it almost paid off, if Gerrans made a single mistake he would have been dropped and Nib was finished anyway. If his attacks are sooo predictable, why didn't more people follow him for a free tow to the line? Maybe they couldn't.

Good reaction from Gerrans, but I think if any other sprinter could have followed Cancellara they would have done it. So it was still having strength in the legs to stay in that break that won him this race, not some move of extraordinary intelligence.

 

[The Hitch]

He might not have, but Bennati might. And cycling still is a team sport.

I also don't get this topic. Nobody is calling Gerrans a genius. We just call him smarter than Cancellara, which is hard to deny in my opinion.

Please explain why its hard to deny. Is cancellara unaware that riding in front is more wasteful of energy ?

 

[Netserk]

Funny thing is, if Gerrans was stronger on the flat he would have lost

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Please explain why its hard to deny. Is cancellara unaware that riding in front is more wasteful of energy ?

I'm sure he is aware of it, which only makes it more stupid. I see people calling Cancellara's tactics solid and I guess it is, if you use a tactic to finish second. It was quite clear he wasn't going to drop Gerrans by just riding as fast as he could. It was also quite clear Gerrans was going to be faster in a sprint. He could have slowed down and try attacking. He could have let them get caught and try attacking again, he obviously had the energy for that seeing how he held of the chasing group on his own anyway. He could have gambled on Bennati's sprint, which would have been better if he could have started from Cancellara's wheel. He had options and although they might have meant finishing lower than 2nd, in my opinion the odds of him or his team winning would have increased. Basically if your goal is to finish as high as possible, than Cancellara did the right thing. If your goal is to win, I seriously have my doubts.

 

[Havetts]

Why Cancellara rode on was because if he would've slowed down they wouldve been caught and he was guaranteed to lose. So he had to ride, Gerrans 'had' Goss in the pack, so he had a reason not to ride.

So what do you do? Ride with a chance to win or stop riding and throwing all your chances away. People calling Cancellara stupid need to get themselves checked.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's not that Gerrans was/is a genius, but that Cancellara was just plain stupid. He uses the same tactic in other races, so don't give me the crap that he didn't have any other choice. Cancellara IS a one trick pony. As far as tactics are concerned that is.

 

[cineteq]

People calling Cancellara stupid need to get themselves checked.

No kidding!

It's not that Gerrans was/is a genius, but that Cancellara was just plain stupid. He uses the same tactic in other races, so don't give me the crap that he didn't have any other choice. Cancellara IS a one trick pony. As far as tactics are concerned that is.

Pisto, you need to get yourself checked buddy!!!

 

[Froome19]

Regarding yesterday we heard a lot about how gerrans outsmarted canc how hes"played" him how the clever rider won. not just on here but from ds's too.
i don't get this. everyone knows that if you follow a rider you save energy. Obviously you will be better off if you don't pull. is that some sort of secret only available to the intelligent now ?

Are people saying canc didn't know he was helping others more than himself. That he has no clue that riding out of the wind saves energy ?it seems so.

this is ridiculous. First of all canc did ask the others to help him. but they refused. from then canc knew that it was his only chance at contesting the win. There was no time to continue to pest nibali and gerrans for their contribution.

gerrans won the tactical battle not by being smarter but because he is not cancellara.

credit his strength and his sprint but to credit him as some sort of genius because he followed wheels. that's like crediting a footballer for kicking the ball in the right direction.w

Part of the win was also due to the fact that Gerrans came from behind Cancellara if he had been leading out even after all the "conserving energy", cancellara would have won.
And that is also what is being partially reffered to

 

[JayKosta]

Cancellara did ok in that situation.

If he didn't do the pulling, then he wouldn't be on the podium at all.
If he didn't win, he decided that getting 2nd or 3rd was better than nothing,

Maybe he could have sprinted 'smarter' by leading Gerrans into a bad section or road, etc.

This is a good example of head-to-head 'racing' versus 'TT'.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[thehog]

Cancellara did ok in that situation.

If he didn't do the pulling, then he wouldn't be on the podium at all.
If he didn't win, he decided that getting 2nd or 3rd was better than nothing,

Maybe he could have sprinted 'smarter' by leading Gerrans into a bad section or road, etc.

This is a good example of head-to-head 'racing' versus 'TT'.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

That's silly. When Canc won MSR he did exactly that. Came from the group with 1500m to go and won. He could do the same again. No one has ever won attacking on the Poggio and riding on the front all the way down and win. Not possible. Yet that's what he tried to do.

 

[The Hitch]

It's not that Gerrans was/is a genius, but that Cancellara was just plain stupid.

I asked you in the other thread if your so smart what would you have done.

You said, not work unless Gerrans and Nibali also did.

In which case the group would have been caught and Canc would have maybe got top 8 in the sprint.

So if Cancellara is stupid to attempt a tactic that gave him a small chance at the win, doesnt that make you even more stupid to prefer a tactic that would produce 0 chance?

 

[Ripper]

It's not that Gerrans was/is a genius, but that Cancellara was just plain stupid. He uses the same tactic in other races, so don't give me the crap that he didn't have any other choice. Cancellara IS a one trick pony. As far as tactics are concerned that is.

OK, come on now. Gerrans played his cards and so did Canc. If the pack had caught them, then Gerrans' gambel would not have paid off either. And Canc almost did drop Gerrans on the descent ... 5 more meters and who knows?

One trick pony? Come on ... seriously. He seems to use a few weapons (sprint - see WC, short distance attack - see MSR he won, longer distance attack - yesterday, very long distance attack - cobbled classics).

Stupid tactic = Nibs attacking on the P when Liqui have Oss and Sagan to pull back a break and sprint. I am pretty sure had Liqui contributed to chasing the break, Sagan would have still smoked a good sprint. Who really knows? But like Nibs was going to stay away with another climber??

 

[The Hitch]

Cancellara IS a one trick pony. As far as tactics are concerned that is.

And how many tricks does Gilbert have?

Attack uphill.
Attack on the last climb.
Attack on a steeper gradient.
Pedal faster when the road goes up.

What else?

 

[Ferminal]

And how many tricks does Gilbert have?

Attack uphill.
Attack on the last climb.
Attack on a steeper gradient.
Pedal faster when the road goes up.

What else?

Attack teammates