• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Why Lance will dodge this bullet.

Nov 26, 2009
28
0
0
Visit site
If the actual percentages of dopers being 80-90% as some have suggested that would mean that there are about 30 clean riders every year in the TDF.

If Lance and the other big names are all found to have been manipulating their blood and flying under the radar it would mean that oragnizers have no way of policing the riders. We never will know who is clean so everyone looks the other way and unless a rider is found to be doing something more blatant they are not caught.

By crucifying Lance and the others to follow it will call into question Contador and every other winner through 160th place finisher in the TDF going back years.

I doubt anything will come out of this. Now, that the officials know what is going on they will surely catch future offenders. I doubt they will pursue past offenders and this will all fizzle out as time passes.
 
I think it depends on what you are looking for. Will a cleaner sport emerge from this? I seriously doubt it based on history and the unlikely odds that heads (and shoulders and knees) will roll at the UCI, which has to be one of the most corrupt organizations in sports history.

I think there is a better than fair chance that some of the cyclists implicated will roll over and that some of those heads will roll. Armstrong and Bruyneel are in for a long couple of years.

His legacy is finally beginning to show the stains and tarnish it so richly deserves. That is a small piece of justice.

I don't have much hope for the sport. I've seen this dance too many times. Rinse, wash repeat.

I hope people can now finally, at last, and for the next era, stop believing the governing body is interested or capable of policing the sport, and that the sport is in any way clean. Speeds have not dropped. The tests are easily beaten. Teams are warned (not the first time we've heard ANY of this) and the governing body is interested only in the flow of money. Wake the **** up, people, for those of you who haven't already, and remember this next time you think the sport might be cleaning up. Remember who is selling you the lie. They're corrupt.
 
Mar 22, 2010
908
0
0
Visit site
If this is the totality of your argument...

if that is the only reason he might skate, I'd have to disagree.

The feds don't give a whit about cycling, the uci, the aso and the bio-passport.

They are on the trail of a conspiracy, a fraud, possible RICO laws violations.

There is a very good chance he will skate if the only evidence forthcoming is Landis's statements and maybe some meaningless evidence.

At this point, if eveidence or third party testimony comes out that corroborate the FL allegations, Lance/JB isn't the only one in the soup. The UCI and McQuaid have got to be terrified of the paper trail of money.
 
Oldman said:
The problem with Lance is he swims with bigger fish. The press are now on to the scent and will have more motivation. See link:
http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-09-07/news/tour-de-farce/full

Courtesy RaceRadio, thanks again.

Yeah, it's really a farce:

A few days later, the chief operating officer of USA Cycling, the governing body responsible for punishing bike-racing drug cheaters in this country, was quoted in more than 100 newspapers dismissing the L'Equipe piece as the scandalmongering of a French tabloid newspaper, adding, in a remarkable echo of Armstrong's public position, that the positive drug results were unfair because they had been exposed by a news reporter, rather than through formal drug-policing protocols.

"To me, this is an issue for the French people. They seemed very concerned about it, and frankly I don't care what they think. And I don't think Lance does either," Reuters quoted USA Cycling COO Steve Johnson as saying last week. "This is just a publication in a French tabloid newspaper. That's our perspective."

And there the story seemed to peter out. And why not? There's no point bothering with drug allegations that the doping cops of American cycling say are bogus, right?

Same strategy in play right now with the UCI. How can they immediately deny all the charges? Any governing body with an ounce of credibility would not announce the conclusion of their "investigations" before announcing their initiation.

How anyone can swallow this crap is a mystery to me.
 
Mar 22, 2010
908
0
0
Visit site
red_flanders said:
I think it depends on what you are looking for. Will a cleaner sport emerge from this? I seriously doubt it based on history and the unlikely odds that heads (and shoulders and knees) will roll at the UCI, which has to be one of the most corrupt organizations in sports history.

I hope people can now finally, at last, and for the next era, stop believing the governing body is interested or capable of policing the sport, and that the sport is in any way clean. Speeds have not dropped. The tests are easily beaten. Teams are warned (not the first time we've heard ANY of this) and the governing body is interested only in the flow of money. Wake the **** up, people, for those of you who haven't already, and remember this next time you think the sport might be cleaning up. Remember who is selling you the lie. They're corrupt.

I am assuming you don't care much for boxing and their corruption? Long regarded as the red light district of sports. :eek: But you make your point well. It seems like the bio-passport was approved by the cheaters having already figured out how to beat it and then wave the passport in our faces as evidence of them being clean.

Was it Woody Allen who said that no matter how cycnical we get, we can never seem to keep up? Truer words....
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
No lance will go down and ASO and the Giro will leap on this to offload the UCI and run their own pro tour without the interference of UCI's BS from McQuaid and probably not give a toss about the IOC either and then they can impose their own rules and regs on the cyclists and make it a private thing, like what the top european football leagues are hoping to do with the top 4 teams from every league and make a super european league that is self governed and a huge money spinner...

the Giro guy Zomegraan has been talking about nightime stages for the american Tv times and making it more exciting, this can be possible without UCI and they'll make the prize money bigger to attract the riders...

i reckoned Di Luca got caught last year, only becuase he led the stage protest about the stage around Milan, where they toured around and raced the last few KMs, that and finishing second in my opinion signed his 'positive' test....

i reckon LA will be taking a big risk to come back to TdF as it would be a great chance for the french to rid him from the tour history books if he tested positive and as we see from Kohl's testaments it seem the testers can be bought for money and not a lot of money either 500euro......
 
I think it is quite possible, maybe even likely, that Armstrong gets away with it. There is a lot of motivation for people not to talk. Everyone currently involved in cycling will be looking at examples like Sinkewitz and Jaksche.

It also would not surprise me if it take years to confirm FLandis' allegations. It could end up being like the Conseco situation. Years later people might look back and say he was right, but the drip of confirming information might be slow enough that the sport will not change anything but its public relations strategy.
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
Visit site
Benotti69 said:
No lance will go down and ASO and the Giro will leap on this to offload the UCI and run their own pro tour without the interference of UCI's BS from McQuaid and probably not give a toss about the IOC either and then they can impose their own rules and regs on the cyclists and make it a private thing, like what the top european football leagues are hoping to do with the top 4 teams from every league and make a super european league that is self governed and a huge money spinner...

the Giro guy Zomegraan has been talking about nightime stages for the american Tv times and making it more exciting, this can be possible without UCI and they'll make the prize money bigger to attract the riders...

i reckoned Di Luca got caught last year, only becuase he led the stage protest about the stage around Milan, where they toured around and raced the last few KMs, that and finishing second in my opinion signed his 'positive' test....


Two really plausible ideas. The justifications from media pressure alone could provide them with the excuse they need.
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
Oldman said:
[/color]

Two really plausible ideas. The justifications from media pressure alone could provide them with the excuse they need.

ASO practically runs all the big money races in europe already, so why not dicate it all on their own terms.......... other races would align with them purely for the financial gain and advertising contracts that would ensure...after all its all about money. TdF started as a vehicle to advertise a product, L'Equipe, and the Giro Gazzetta Dello Sport jumped on the bandwagon, so it was always about money....
 
alberto.legstrong said:
I am assuming you don't care much for boxing and their corruption? Long regarded as the red light district of sports. :eek: But you make your point well. It seems like the bio-passport was approved by the cheaters having already figured out how to beat it and then wave the passport in our faces as evidence of them being clean.

Was it Woody Allen who said that no matter how cycnical we get, we can never seem to keep up? Truer words....

Not a boxing fan. :) Used to be, when I was a kid and Ali, Foreman, Frazier and those guys were at it.
 
Mar 13, 2009
626
0
0
Visit site
Oldman said:
The problem with Lance is he swims with bigger fish. The press are now on to the scent and will have more motivation. See link:
http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-09-07/news/tour-de-farce/full

Courtesy RaceRadio, thanks again.

By 'now' you mean 2005?:confused:

A large part of the issue is that the perception of guilt has no bearing on a guilty finding via the courts...USA: Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If there is reasonable doubt, there cannot be guilt.
 
Black-Balled said:
By 'now' you mean 2005?:confused:

I think (not sure) the point was, "same as it ever was".

DavidByrne.gif
 
Benotti69 said:
ASO practically runs all the big money races in europe already, so why not dicate it all on their own terms.......... other races would align with them purely for the financial gain and advertising contracts that would ensure...after all its all about money. TdF started as a vehicle to advertise a product, L'Equipe, and the Giro Gazzetta Dello Sport jumped on the bandwagon, so it was always about money....

I agree with you, at minimum this will re-open the ASO vs. UCI power struggle that the UCI won a few years ago.
 
May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Visit site
BikeCentric said:
I agree with you, at minimum this will re-open the ASO vs. UCI power struggle that the UCI won a few years ago.

anyone remember why the UCI won that round? Did they have LA on their side? or is that one for the conspiracy theorists.......

FL has lifted the cover off something that we all know stunk, but now the non- sport media have got a whiff.....lets hope they get stuck in...
 
Mar 22, 2010
908
0
0
Visit site
Black-Balled said:
By 'now' you mean 2005?:confused:

A large part of the issue is that the perception of guilt has no bearing on a guilty finding via the courts...USA: Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. If there is reasonable doubt, there cannot be guilt.

It's too early to make up my mind on how likely it is that Lance will take a serious hit for this. BUT...the media seem to be rolling with this and when they are on the scent, the investigators (who like to pretend they don't care about the publicity of going after high profile people. The revel in it. The get high off of it.) will be much more eager to chase a story of this size. Especially since Novitzki has a lot of comfort dealing with the characters that drive professional doping.

Clemens, Bonds, McGuire, Sosa. These guys didn't spend time behind bars (tho' they still could.) But the investigators feed off of the arrogance of guys like Clemens and Lance. It's human nature to be disgusted by these holier than thou characters who are actually cheats liars and frauds. It's Shake-a-Spearean.
 
Benotti69 said:
anyone remember why the UCI won that round? Did they have LA on their side? or is that one for the conspiracy theorists.......

The UCI did not win. It was scuffed up like a deflated soccer ball being kicked up and down the street. The race organizers demonstrated that they are more powerful than the UCI.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
1
0
Visit site
BroDeal said:
The UCI did not win. It was scuffed up like a deflated soccer ball being kicked up and down the street. The race organizers demonstrated that they are more powerful than the UCI.

Exactly, the UCI proved to the public that they were idiots and the McQuaid in particular was a moron.
 
Apr 20, 2009
960
0
0
Visit site
alberto.legstrong said:
Clemens, Bonds, McGuire, Sosa. These guys didn't spend time behind bars (tho' they still could.) But the investigators feed off of the arrogance of guys like Clemens and Lance. It's human nature to be disgusted by these holier than thou characters who are actually cheats liars and frauds. It's Shake-a-Spearean.

I'll be surprised if anything comes of the Novitsky investigation, but if the smoke produces fire and it develops along the lines of what has happened to McGwire, Clemens or Bonds I think Lance would be quite fine with the outcome.
 
Mar 22, 2010
908
0
0
Visit site
eleven said:
I'll be surprised if anything comes of the Novitsky investigation, but if the smoke produces fire and it develops along the lines of what has happened to McGwire, Clemens or Bonds I think Lance would be quite fine with the outcome.

Saying you will be surprised if Novitsky comes up with anything is a ridiculous statement. No one knows at this point either way it will go.

and if Lance becomes the punchline that the 3 players mentioned do you seriously think he would be Ok with that? That's 2 foolish and unsupportable assertions in one pargraph.
 
Feb 21, 2010
1,007
0
0
Visit site
eleven said:
I'll be surprised if anything comes of the Novitsky investigation, but if the smoke produces fire and it develops along the lines of what has happened to McGwire, Clemens or Bonds I think Lance would be quite fine with the outcome.

Well, I guess you will just end up very surprised.

It may not happen with the suddenness of a "positive" test but it will gain momentum and it will end badly for those in the Tailwind/USPS/Discovery management and owners. The truth about what they used the money for will be unavoidably found.

Fellas, the ship is on fire, is taking water and the crew is abandoning ship.

Just sit back and watch.
 
Feb 1, 2010
58
0
0
Visit site
BroDeal said:
........

It also would not surprise me if it take years to confirm FLandis' allegations. It could end up being like the Conseco situation. Years later people might look back and say he was right, but the drip of confirming information might be slow enough that the sport will not change anything but its public relations strategy.

I think this is the most realistic outcome. A large bomb would need to be found for the large majority of these allegations to stick quickly. It's more likely stuff will trickle out like a leaky faucet.
 
eleven said:
I'll be surprised if anything comes of the Novitsky investigation, but if the smoke produces fire and it develops along the lines of what has happened to McGwire, Clemens or Bonds I think Lance would be quite fine with the outcome.

I don't quite think Lance would be fine with that outcome. Look at how much he enjoys the celebrity lifestyle. You don't exactly see Clemens and Bonds out in public much. Yes, McGwire got a job as a hitting coach, but he came out before actually working as a coach and took the crap when he started. Immediately after retirement McGwire went away in hiding and nobody really heard from him except the infamous testimony before Congress. Lance didn't exactly do this after retirement 1.0.
 
What is readily apparent is that many Lance supporters don't really care whether or not this helps cycling, but rather how Lance will come out of this unscathed.

This, of course, is hardly surprising, since these people showed their colors on that fateful day when Armstrong chased down Simeoni.
 
Feb 12, 2010
66
0
0
Visit site
Moose McKnuckles said:
What is readily apparent is that many Lance supporters don't really care whether or not this helps cycling, but rather how Lance will come out of this unscathed.

This, of course, is hardly surprising, since these people showed their colors on that fateful day when Armstrong chased down Simeoni.

I have to agree with that...but only with this thought and question.

Didn't that chase down incident require the majority of the peloton participate?
 

TRENDING THREADS