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Why take clenbuterol?

Dec 11, 2009
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Clenbuterol is used to improve breathing right? So is salbutamol, and Contador has a TUE for that. So why would he take clenbuterol? I've read that it works better, but does it really differ enough to warrant its use over salbutamol?

I'm no expert on this, so I was hoping that someone who is a bit more knowledgeable about these things could shed some light on it.

If there's no reason for him to (ever) use it, then I'm willing to believe that it was indeed his food that was contaminated and not a possible transfusion.
 
Pedaaldanser said:
Clenbuterol is used to improve breathing right? So is salbutamol, and Contador has a TUE for that. So why would he take clenbuterol? I've read that it works better, but does it really differ enough to warrant its use over salbutamol?

I'm no expert on this, so I was hoping that someone who is a bit more knowledgeable about these things could shed some light on it.

If there's no reason for him to (ever) use it, then I'm willing to believe that it was indeed his food that was contaminated and not a possible transfusion.
He might not have taken Clenbuterol that rest day - but months before - and it could be only showing up because he took a transfusion from a blood bag that was made month before. Well that's the theory. I'd prefer it weren't true but can see it's possible, especially if plastics associated with such bags also turn up.
 
Clen can be used for extreme weight loss. Its nickname is the "size zero" pill. If you look at the the incredibly, almost sickly thin actresses in Hollywood whose legs have dwindled away to the diameter of your arm, you are likely seeing the results of Clen.

As far as cycling goes, there seems to be several data points arguing against its use. Our Joe Papp and 131313 have both said that it would be detrimental to performance. JoePa related that it caused horrible side effects that caused him drop out of a stage race. 131313 has posted more detailed information that indicates that at the typical weight loss dose it will negatively affect training and performance.

As an addional data point I heard from a source I trust (you know who you are), who can post details if he wants to, that a rider who raced at the very highest level tried Clen but stopped because of the side effects. At the same time the rider fingered another rider with known weight issues who rode at an equivalent level as a Clen user.

On balance I would say that Clen might be used by a rider who was desperate for weight loss and willing to take the hit to his training to get it. Contador does not appear to fall into that category.

That said, the details of Contador's excuse, especially regarding Vino, do not fill me with a lot of confidence in his innocence.
 
Jul 3, 2010
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BroDeal said:
As an addional data point I heard from a source I trust (you know who you are), who can post details if he wants to, that a rider who raced at the very highest level tried Clen but stopped because of the side effects. At the same time the rider fingered another rider with known weight issues who rode at an equivalent level as a Clen user.

On balance I would say that Clen might be used by a rider who was desperate for weight loss and willing to take the hit to his training to get it.

... Ullrich sure missed the boat on this one.
 
BroDeal said:
Clen can be used for extreme weight loss. Its nickname is the "size zero" pill. If you look at the the incredibly, almost sickly thin actresses in Hollywood whose legs have dwindled away to the diameter of your arm, you are likely seeing the results of Clen.

As far as cycling goes, there seems to be several data points arguing against its use. Our Joe Papp and 131313 have both said that it would be detrimental to performance. JoePa related that it caused horrible side effects that caused him drop out of a stage race. 131313 has posted more detailed information that indicates that at the typical weight loss dose it will negatively affect training and performance.

As an addional data point I heard from a source I trust (you know who you are), who can post details if he wants to, that a rider who raced at the very highest level tried Clen but stopped because of the side effects. At the same time the rider fingered another rider with known weight issues who rode at an equivalent level as a Clen user.

On balance I would say that Clen might be used by a rider who was desperate for weight loss and willing to take the hit to his training to get it. Contador does not appear to fall into that category.

The details of Contador's excuse, especially regarding Vino, do not fill me with a lot of confidence in his innocence.

Thank you. You made my day :)
 
BroDeal said:
Clen can be used for extreme weight loss. Its nickname is the "size zero" pill. If you look at the the incredibly, almost sickly thin actresses in Hollywood whose legs have dwindled away to the diameter of your arm, you are likely seeing the results of Clen.

As far as cycling goes, there seems to be several data points arguing against its use. Our Joe Papp and 131313 have both said that it would be detrimental to performance. JoePa related that it caused horrible side effects that caused him drop out of a stage race. 131313 has posted more detailed information that indicates that at the typical weight loss dose it will negatively affect training and performance.

As an addional data point I heard from a source I trust (you know who you are), who can post details if he wants to, that a rider who raced at the very highest level tried Clen but stopped because of the side effects. At the same time the rider fingered another rider with known weight issues who rode at an equivalent level as a Clen user.

On balance I would say that Clen might be used by a rider who was desperate for weight loss and willing to take the hit to his training to get it. Contador does not appear to fall into that category.

The details of Contador's excuse, especially regarding Vino, do not fill me with a lot of confidence in his innocence.

What a great post.
 
Jul 29, 2010
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Seems totally plausible then that a rider might take it briefly to shed a needed pound or two to get to their racing weight. These guys are extremely OCD regarding their weight, if you've ever been around them they talk about it a lot. Even a rider who ain't manorexic might need to shed a quick pound now and again.

As for Vino, the story is he headed out to Burger King to get a value meal, that is why he missed the (tainted) team BBQ. Totally believable. :rolleyes:
 
May 11, 2009
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Pedaaldanser said:
Clenbuterol is used to improve breathing right? So is salbutamol, and Contador has a TUE for that. So why would he take clenbuterol?

Could his Salbutamol be contaminated with Clenbuterol?
 
Dec 11, 2009
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BroDeal said:
On balance I would say that Clen might be used by a rider who was desperate for weight loss and willing to take the hit to his training to get it. Contador does not appear to fall into that category.

That said, the details of Contador's excuse, especially regarding Vino, do not fill me with a lot of confidence in his innocence.

Thanks for the info. I thought it was weird for him to have taken clen. Whether he has taken other things or not (probably), this seems likely to have actually come from some contaminated food or supplement then.

Hmm, thinking a little further about it I think the most likely explanation is indeed some contaminated meat... but then consumed before he withdrew the blood that he infused on the rest day. That's why they don't really have a good explanation for the presence of clenbuterol - they don't know anymore from where it came!

Should he be suspended for the clen? I don't think so. Should he be suspended for blood doping? Probably, but all the other riders that blood-dope "the right way" are still going around freely as well.

Of course the meat story could be true.. but it seems implausible.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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avanti said:
Could his Salbutamol be contaminated with Clenbuterol?

is it a published fact that berto has a tue for salbutamol ? i asked here before but dont recall anyone being sure or pointing to a source. but your theory is certainly worth checking if i were berto. yet he did not blame supplement contamination.

why ?
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Pedaaldanser said:
I heard it on the dutch tv news, I assume they don't tell lies :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnwcw3_RuJY at around 9:00 the reporter mentions that clen is used to widen airways for which contador already has a salbutamol tue so it seems like clen would not be necessary.
thanks. confirmed. edwin winkels said it in dutch;)

btw, harm kuipers opinion was also interesting since i have not seen him quoted anywhere.
 
Jul 3, 2009
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He got it from meat from Spain!!!! Answer these questions so Mr Contador

Spanish meat has to comply with EU standards? Yes/No

Clenbutrol has a half life of 48hrs? True/False

Cooking meat changes the molecular structure of meat, so what
effect does it have on clenbutrol ?
 
Jun 20, 2010
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Pedaaldanser said:
Clenbuterol is used to improve breathing right? So is salbutamol, and Contador has a TUE for that. So why would he take clenbuterol? I've read that it works better, but does it really differ enough to warrant its use over salbutamol?

I'm no expert on this, so I was hoping that someone who is a bit more knowledgeable about these things could shed some light on it.

If there's no reason for him to (ever) use it, then I'm willing to believe that it was indeed his food that was contaminated and not a possible transfusion.
Anti Doping Danmark says Clenbuterol in higher doses has muscle anabolic effects. It also has effects like stress hormones like adrenaline (epinephrine) and noradrenaline (norepinephrine).
So the motive to use it out of competition unfortunately is there.
 
Jun 20, 2010
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avanti said:
Could his Salbutamol be contaminated with Clenbuterol?
Salbutamol Quote wikipedia "is marketed by GlaxoSmithKline as Ventolin, Aerolin or Ventorlin depending on the market; by Cipla as Asthalin; by Schering-Plough as Proventil and by Teva as ProAir."

Clenbuterol is made by Boehringer Ingelheim.

It is highly unlikely that a drug from one drug company would appear in the inhaler of a competing drug company.

Look at this link. But do NOT buy the ****: http://www.steroidonlineshop.com/buy-Spiropent.html
 
Jun 20, 2010
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In China, feeding clenbuterol to pigs and cows (to keep them lean and muscular, it works that way, you know ;) )has caused people to ingest drug remnants.

In EU, spiking animals with clenbuterol is prohibited. In the US, it can only be used in horses. Presumably, because their citizens do not eat their (race)horses, but only porc and beef.

In Espagna, clenbuterol is seemingly popular. If you belong to a drug using culture, even your live stock gets to "benefit" from what you have in your medicine cabinets.

It does not matter how this drug entered Contador. It has positively been detected in his urine. Twice. This molecule does not occur in nature, but is synthetic. It has performance enhancing effects. When it is detected in an athlete, it is interpreted as doping according to the rules.

Athletes are obliged to keep track of their whereabouts at all times (Rasmussen). And to take extreme care with regards to anything that they ingest. Tablets. Powders. Energy drinks. Food. Injections. Saddle sore lotions. Infusions.

Probably contador received blood that contained remnants of out of competition clenbuterol, as Rasmus Damsgaard suspects.

It is becoming increasingly difficult to dodge the doping control. Which is nice.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Irish2009 said:
He got it from meat from Spain!!!! Answer these questions so Mr Contador

Spanish meat has to comply with EU standards? Yes/No

Clenbutrol has a half life of 48hrs? True/False

Cooking meat changes the molecular structure of meat, so what
effect does it have on clenbutrol ?

In the mid 1990's there were two well publicized incidents in Spain in each of which around 100 people got sick from eating meat that came from animals that had taken (a lot of) clenbuterol. Folks in Spain remember this, and Contador's group have simply found a defense that is at least minimally plausible, and plays well with a domestic audience inclined to look for excuses for its champion. Also it plays to a part of Spanish psychology that may not be well known to those from other parts - the typical Spaniard is convinced that food in Spain is better than food anywhere else - and so it makes perfect sense to the typical Spaniard that on his off day Contador would go to some effort to eat fine Spanish beef - even if this makes no sense to the rest of the world. Contador knows that what matters is that he not get banned and that enough of his market remain convinced that he is not a doper. It worked for Pep Guardiola after all. And Pedro Delgado (who remains quite popular among even the non-cycling public).
 
Paco_P said:
In the mid 1990's there were two well publicized incidents in Spain in each of which around 100 people got sick from eating meat that came from animals that had taken (a lot of) clenbuterol. Folks in Spain remember this, and Contador's group have simply found a defense that is at least minimally plausible, and plays well with a domestic audience inclined to look for excuses for its champion. Also it plays to a part of Spanish psychology that may not be well known to those from other parts - the typical Spaniard is convinced that food in Spain is better than food anywhere else - and so it makes perfect sense to the typical Spaniard that on his off day Contador would go to some effort to eat fine Spanish beef - even if this makes no sense to the rest of the world. Contador knows that what matters is that he not get banned and that enough of his market remain convinced that he is not a doper. It worked for Pep Guardiola after all. And Pedro Delgado (who remains quite popular among even the non-cycling public).
He does not need to convince Spanish public. He needs to convince the UCI and WADA which ultimately (Once the Spanish federation absolves him) will appeal the theories.

Pedro Delgado’s case was totally different:
- The drug was not in the UCI list. Some time after this incident the drug was included. It was a flaw in the system. In this case, it is included in the UCI list.
- Doping was not in the minds and headlines of the whole world. Now it is. Especially now that the UCI is facing scrutiny from the public for corruption.

It is an uphill battle.

BTW, maybe you can provide a link to the last meat intoxication incident so we can read it. There is a probability that some people were just eating liver only.;)
 
Dec 11, 2009
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ulrikmm said:
Anti Doping Danmark says Clenbuterol in higher doses has muscle anabolic effects. It also has effects like stress hormones like adrenaline (epinephrine) and noradrenaline (norepinephrine).
So the motive to use it out of competition unfortunately is there.

Isn't there better stuff (that has less side effects) to use for that purpose?
 
May 15, 2010
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BroDeal said:
Clen can be used for extreme weight loss. Its nickname is the "size zero" pill. If you look at the the incredibly, almost sickly thin actresses in Hollywood whose legs have dwindled away to the diameter of your arm, you are likely seeing the results of Clen.

So what story do I need to tell my Doc to get this s--t? Instead of size zero I'd settle for a 34 waist. (Ok, a 36, I long ago gave up hope on ever being a 34.)

Kidding.

I did have bronchitis that was so severe last spring that they sent a nurse in with albuterol to inhale just so they could hear my lungs. I did lose weight just from being miserable. No idea if the inhaler had any impact.
 
Apr 22, 2009
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Paco_P said:
In the mid 1990's there were two well publicized incidents in Spain in each of which around 100 people got sick from eating meat that came from animals that had taken (a lot of) clenbuterol. Folks in Spain remember this, and Contador's group have simply found a defense that is at least minimally plausible, and plays well with a domestic audience inclined to look for excuses for its champion. Also it plays to a part of Spanish psychology that may not be well known to those from other parts - the typical Spaniard is convinced that food in Spain is better than food anywhere else - and so it makes perfect sense to the typical Spaniard that on his off day Contador would go to some effort to eat fine Spanish beef - even if this makes no sense to the rest of the world. Contador knows that what matters is that he not get banned and that enough of his market remain convinced that he is not a doper. It worked for Pep Guardiola after all. And Pedro Delgado (who remains quite popular among even the non-cycling public).

Well, it has happened in the past, but even if it continues to happen at the same frequency, can we guess at the probability of AC getting poisoned like this? Here's my try.

- Assume there are 40 million people in Spain, and they eat one meal per day that includes some kind of beef. In any given year, that would be about 14.6 billion beef meals consumed.
- Assume that in the early 1990's, about 200 people per year were reported as having been poisoned with Clen (probably a wild exaggeration, but let's roll with it). Let's also assume that only 1 in 100 people showed enough symptoms for their situation to be detected and reported. That gives about 20,000 people poisoned per year.
- Based on these assumptions, the probability of poisoning was 20K/14.6B, or about 1 in 730,000.

So, if the Spanish agricultural authorities did nothing since the early 1990's,
AC would have had one chance in 730,000 to get Clen poisoning from tainted meat. Talk about bad luck!!

Does anybody want to take their stab at figuring out AC's odds at getting poisoned by Spanish ranchers?