Why U.S Racing is Hampered

[BillytheKid]

It just too hard to put on a quality race here. It is the tribe of Kant again. We need the Forest Service, but not one that is over-zealous... "Let's find a way to prevent, stop, impede the common folk from entering our territory?"

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...challenge-camping-on-independence-pass_231850

The pass should not be included every year, but I doubt the problem was over the top. "Oh look you crushed a blade of grass."

Why not allow the spectators this year, but prevent the route's use year after year?

Hey Bo Bo, ittt's the Ran-a-ger Man.

 

[Race Radio]

It just too hard to put on a quality race here. It is the tribe of Kant again. We need the Forest Service, but not one that is over-zealous... "Let's find a way to prevent, stop, impede the common folk from entering our territory?"

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...challenge-camping-on-independence-pass_231850

The pass should not be included every year, but I doubt the problem was over the top. "Oh look you crushed a blade of grass."

Why not allow the spectators this year, but prevent the route's use year after year?

Hey Bo Bo, ittt's the Ran-a-ger Man.

You might want to share your ire with the fools who trashed the place last year

 

[BillytheKid]

You might want to share your ire with the fools who trashed the place last year

Maybe they can publish some pictures of the mass distruction. It's not like this does not happen in Europe. Do you belong to the tribe of Kant as well?

 

[ElChingon]

Races in the USA only happen if there are big bucks and enough to grease the squeaky wheels, otherwise go to Europe, unless you want to go round and round at the local Business Park Loop or City Park.

I know its a shame but a well known shame, hence the off the books races that are organized, time to go get connected with the local rouge races, if you're into that.

 

[Boeing]

Dear Mods;

How do you allow a sock puppet over 1,500 posts

 

[Califootman]

Jack-booted Forest Rangers Deny Entry to Public!! Or maybe not...

Here's an article from the Aspen Times on the concerns with the USA Pro Cycling Challenge going over Independence Pass twice this year: Protecting the pass a Pro Cycling Challenge

My take is that they are just being sensible about protecting the ecosystem on the pass. They are not allowing car camping on the road over the pass, but my understanding is that is normal operations; camping on the pass was allowed last year as an exception on the day of the race. Note that are still allowing camping in designated campgrounds along the route.

With the race going over the pass on consecutive days this year, it makes sense to limit the amount of time people are tramping around near the roads. We're talking 12,000 feet here! Alpine ecosystems are very fragile... it doesn't take much stomping to kill off plant life up there, and it can take years to get it re-established.

In my opinion they are just taking reasonable measures to protect the area.

 

[Race Radio]

Maybe they can publish some pictures of the mass distruction. It's not like this does not happen in Europe. Do you belong to the tribe of Kant as well?

Ah yes, because if there are no pictures it never happened

Are you really using the "Everyone was doing it" Line? Didn't work with Mom, will not work with the Feds

 

[BillytheKid]

Dear Mods;

How do you allow a sock puppet over 1,500 posts

Testy are we. Seriously, there was great race in Globe, AZ called Mining Country. There was really no prize money, but you had riders from California, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah and many other western states. It was always the first week in April and had fair amount of climbing. It was just a great race everybody did it. It died at the hands the state's highway department on what was a very low traffic route. I hand a little fun at the expense of the the Forest Service, but I was only trying to point out that there are other solotutions at hand rather than just banning fans becuase of the 10% that mess it up for everyone else.

 

[BillytheKid]

Here's an article from the Aspen Times on the concerns with the USA Pro Cycling Challenge going over Independence Pass twice this year: Protecting the pass a Pro Cycling Challenge

My take is that they are just being sensible about protecting the ecosystem on the pass. They are not allowing car camping on the road over the pass, but my understanding is that is normal operations; camping on the pass was allowed last year as an exception on the day of the race. Note that are still allowing camping in designated campgrounds along the route.

With the race going over the pass on consecutive days this year, it makes sense to limit the amount of time people are tramping around near the roads. We're talking 12,000 feet here! Alpine ecosystems are very fragile... it doesn't take much stomping to kill off plant life up there, and it can take years to get it re-established.

In my opinion they are just taking reasonable measures to protect the area.

The road salts use to keep roads open in that area (although the pass is close in winter I believe) other than Idependence Pass cause more harm than cycling fans do once a year or once every three years. The heart of the matter is some people don't like cycling and they have too much time and too much money on their hands. Who knows, you might be able to stop the bike menace in all National Forests in the future.

Great.

 

[Deagol]

I was up there last year and have mixed feelings about this. There were a lot of people way off the road (way farther than any salt would be carried) on the "above the road side". If there will be a ton more people up there, I think this is probably a good idea...

It is higher up there than the climbs in Europe, so probably more fragile? (not familiar with Europe first hand, but seems to make sense....)

We probably won't go this time around, but it was a cool thing to see in person last year.

 

[ustabe]

My take. First, alpine zone is alpine zone, regardless of altitude. Europe is considerably more northerly than Colorado so the alpine zone starts a few thousand feet lower. Colorado is a lot drier than western Europe, though. Maybe the extra rainfall and moisture in the air helps European alpine flora recover faster. And Colorado uses little salt on its highways, and primarily in trouble spots on interstates where water is known to puddle and freeze. Anyone who has ever slid a car on black ice on a Colorado highway will attest to this. The high passes that stay open are plowed and sanded. And Independence Pass is closed to traffic through ski season. I'm not going to complain about the Park and Forest Services. They do a terrific job with small budgets.

 

[Califootman]

Less oxygen at 12K feet also means less carbon dioxide. The plants are (figuratively) sucking air up there just as bad as we are.

Those alpine grasses and flowers would be much hardier if they would just sleep high and train low, but they can't seem to be bothered with it.

 

[Mshengu]

Crits are the too common here, even though there are so many open country roads. It seems like the issue is cost. The fact you have to pay law enforcement overtime for road marshalling. I don't know about MTB

 

[BroDeal]

Crits are the too common here, even though there are so many open country roads. It seems like the issue is cost. The fact you have to pay law enforcement overtime for road marshalling. I don't know about MTB

I have always thought that circuit races are the way to go instead of crits. Put a freaking hill on the course and race for more than an hour.

Crit racing makes people good at crit racing.

 

[BillytheKid]

My take. First, alpine zone is alpine zone, regardless of altitude. Europe is considerably more northerly than Colorado so the alpine zone starts a few thousand feet lower. Colorado is a lot drier than western Europe, though. Maybe the extra rainfall and moisture in the air helps European alpine flora recover faster. And Colorado uses little salt on its highways, and primarily in trouble spots on interstates where water is known to puddle and freeze. Anyone who has ever slid a car on black ice on a Colorado highway will attest to this. The high passes that stay open are plowed and sanded. And Independence Pass is closed to traffic through ski season. I'm not going to complain about the Park and Forest Services. They do a terrific job with small budgets.

I am not really complaining about the Forest Service, but more the pressure that's put on them by those who are on the little on over-zealous side. It is a valid concern, but there are other remedies. I worry over this stuff because it often leads to more restriction and then a closed route. It's all true what you saying about the differences in climate, but the big crowds where probably a shock and parties on the mountain well... are going to parties on the mountain. I still think the good solution is not to use it year in and year out.

The restrictions imposed are not really that bad, but there will be someone who wants more. I hope some common sense prevails in the long run.

BroDeal, I saw one of the last installments of the Coors Classic in Aspen in 1986. One stage was a circuit race in town and used the hills leading up to the ski area. Raul Alcala won it for Seven-Eleven. It was very good race for the spectator. The next day the used the pass on a short stage over to Leadville and very few of us were on the pass that day. Close to the normal foot traffic you would get up there anyway.

I think the circuit race in town is great idea in a mix of stages for the Cali, USPCC and Utah.

 

[stainlessguy1]

no reason to have problems with park rangers

Having read all the previous posts . There is no reason to have trouble posting races in North America , if destruction of wildlife and garbage is cited as the cause to disallow the race .
We have the technology and Intelligence that is needed to make it happen :

(a) keep fans near the roads and not all over the sensitive plant life at altitude by making sure porta potties are in place .
(b) passing by laws for garbage and human waste disposal
(c) fans in campers bring back their own garbage and offer to bring back some from the cyclists ( that may have a bit to dispose ) while they watch the race from their bikes .
d) contracting out a general clean up crew , for things that are missed , and there shouldnt be much if the above rules are followed.
e) post signs drawing attention of the sensitivity of the landscape , you will be suprised how people will begin the process when in numbers and watched by others .

If anyone thinks , it is just a couple of pieces of grass or weeds that get trampled on ,guess again , in most cases it is the big picture .

I invite all of you , ( and pass this on ) to read the book : PLASTIKI by David de Rothschild , or for the no time to spare crowd, google it on http://www.plastiki.com
There was a time cycling made a lot of sense. It was born from the need to transport oneself to work and as general transportation. Unlike many items that we have manufactured under the guise of progress it is one of the few that changed very little, until now.
Most of us had bought into the sport under the eco-logic of many years ago and stayed with it . That same eco-logic , ( now that car companies have also bought into it ) should stay with us when we frequent the many locals on this planet and do our part not to destroy it any further. ITS A CONSIOUS CHOICE for intelligent people.
From the boy scout days , leave a campsite like you found it, (there should be nothing visible from your stay after your gone) .

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I have always thought that circuit races are the way to go instead of crits. Put a freaking hill on the course and race for more than an hour.

You mean like Morgul-Bismarck?

I'm not going to complain about the Park and Forest Services. They do a terrific job with small budgets.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[Deagol]

I am going by memory here, but I believe there were port-o-potties on the top of Independence Pass last year. The problem would be that there were people spread out for a mile or two on either side of the summit, as far as that goes. After the peleton went by, we had to get out of there quickly since it was raining on us (there was lightning, to). It was crazy, a mass exodus with hundreds of people on bikes and hundreds of cars all descending in the rain together.

 

[ustabe]

Less oxygen at 12K feet also means less carbon dioxide. The plants are (figuratively) sucking air up there just as bad as we are.

Those alpine grasses and flowers would be much hardier if they would just sleep high and train low, but they can't seem to be bothered with it.

Good point.

 

[DirtyWorks]

It is higher up there than the climbs in Europe, so probably more fragile?

High altitude ecosystems in general are comparable to deserts. Extreme environmental conditions limit pretty much everything such that human impact is felt for years. Part of the agency's job managing the area is preservation, so they are doing their job.

It is very, very easy for me to imagine the area absolutely trashed. Any of us living in dense urban areas with open-space islands know exactly what I'm talking about.

Racing at this level is hampered by Americans not willing to blow their money on importing the UCI's racing show. At the amateur level, it's hampered by other things mostly having to do with USAC and the UCI.

 

[hector5950]

there are other solotutions at hand rather than just banning fans

No one is banning fans. They aren't allowing people camp up there overnight. Overreact much?

 

[Deagol]

Well, as a resident and lover of Colorado, I think they should put the environment ahead of people's desire to camp up there to watch the race. I've ridden Independence pass a few times (both sides), including the morning of last year's stage and it was a great experience. I was blown away by the crowds up there and have no difficulty believing that there was damage due to the crowding. I saw tents in places I would never expect to see them and I guarantee that people used whatever spot or bush they could find as a bathroom when camping. I wasn't there to witness the aftermath due to our required quick exit, but with that many people up there overnight, there had to be some impact. You can still watch the race, but just need to get up there that morning (that's what we did). One thing for sure: it will make the adjoining campgrounds much more in demand.