Will you see the drop of performance of SKY later this year?

[maxmartin]

Are SKY riders afraid?

2013 WADA took the rare step of warning “cheats” to ensure that there is complete awareness of the possible health risks to athletes who succumb to the temptation of using GW501516 for performance enhancement.

http://playtrue.wada-ama.org/news/w...ss&utm_campaign=wada-issues-alert-on-gw501516

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GW_501516

 

[DirtyWorks]

Are SKY riders afraid?

2013 WADA took the rare step of warning “cheats” to ensure that there is complete awareness of the possible health risks to athletes who succumb to the temptation of using GW501516 for performance enhancement.

http://playtrue.wada-ama.org/news/w...ss&utm_campaign=wada-issues-alert-on-gw501516

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GW_501516

With the sports federation now in total control of testing and test processing, who will ever find out if they got a positive? Remember, the system is anti-doping controversy, not anti-doping.

The compound has yet to be named a controlled or prohibited substance by any nation's drug enforcement or regulation agency.

An AICAR cocktail with GW-501516 would explain the super-duper weight loss and contradictory sustained power we've seen recently. It's not a crime to take either...

 

[maxmartin]

"GW-501516 has yet to be named a controlled or prohibited substance by any nation's drug enforcement or regulation agency. To date, no athlete is known to have tested positive for the substance, though the increase in endurance, muscle fiber performance, fat loss and metabolism suggests GW-501516 has the potential for ergogenic use and abuse."

"GW-501516 was not currently controlled by regulations or detected by standard tests."

Is there any robust way to detect this compound in the human body?

 

[maxmartin]

An AICAR cocktail with GW-501516 would explain the super-duper weight loss and contradictory sustained power we've seen recently. It's not a crime to take either...

"GW-501516 has a synergistic effect when combined with AICAR: the combination has been shown to significantly increase exercise endurance in animal studies more than either compound alone."

But taking GW is an offence, The World Anti-Doping Agency has also begun work on a test for GW-501516 and other related PPARδ modulators, and they have been added to the prohibited list from 2009 onwards.

I think simply there is no robust method to detect this compound up to today. Correct me on this, if I am wrong.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

My gut feel says Sky set the precedent last year, and the peloton is not as dumb as some make it out to be. Particularly when you have managers and DS's that have been around a while and know a thing or two about what's normal. Even if the riders aren't aware or keeping up to date (lax OOC testing, for example), I can comfortably bet their managers are. (Which makes JV's whole "riders are talking now" a bit disingenuous, imo).

So my gut says, expect the peloton to lift their game, which would look the same as Sky's performance being lowered.

I think, despite their 2013 success, the fact that that success is being shared around more than it was in 2012 when it was mostly channeled through one rider (Wiggins) means it is diminished already. Certainly the "not normal" aspect. ie it's more believable (if only just) to have multiple riders winning everything vs one rider winning (almost) everything, even if those multiple riders are on the same team.

But when we look at the sport holistically, and historically, LA did some pretty standard doping, but still dominated convincingly.

So the counter to my intuition is Sky have more than doping on their side, and that will continue to tip the balance in their favour, as it did for LA.

Right or wrong, I am looking forward to some incredible scenery, and very interested to see how this season pans out. The racing itself will not be as interesting to me as the racing I do myself

 

[thehog]

There's a probably few cyclists maybe from Sky taking d-a-w-g115 which is a Kenyan variant of EPO. I've seen some guys take it and rather than walk sideways they start walking straight.

I've not seen what it's done to Pro peloton but if it makes them go straight up hills then it could make some guys excel out of the grupetto into the front group.

Some bloke called Coyle said you could inject it into the wheels of shopping trolleys and it makes them go straight rather than bash into the side aisles.

 

[Gloin22]

No way.

Drop in performance is the obvious sign they doped last year.

 

[DirtyWorks]

"But taking GW is an offence,

You seem to be missing my point. Even if WADA has a test certified and labs performing the test there's a long list of ways to evade a positive.

-Don't test for it.
-Don't process a positive test result.
-Hypothetically use it to non-positive levels.

Remember, the sports federation has complete authority and control of the doping process. There is no amount of WADA expertise that is going to catch AICAR/GW-whatever users when the federation stands in their way.

 

[maxmartin]

My gut feel says Sky set the precedent last year, and the peloton is not as dumb as some make it out to be. Particularly when you have managers and DS's that have been around a while and know a thing or two about what's normal. Even if the riders aren't aware or keeping up to date (lax OOC testing, for example), I can comfortably bet their managers are. (Which makes JV's whole "riders are talking now" a bit disingenuous, imo).

I don't know how swift peloton will react, RP's astonishing TT result shows SKY is still on another level.

I am very keen to see SKY's performance after yesterday's very unusual health warning statement from WADA.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Does anyone know what health issues this drug causes?

 

[maxmartin]

Does anyone know what health issues this drug causes?

rumor is significant risk of liver and stomach cancer, but I am not sure that is on mice model or human model or both. Keep in mind human and mice can react significantly differently to the same substance.

 

[LaFlorecita]

rumor is significant risk of liver and stomach cancer, but I am not sure that is on mice model or human model or both. Keep in mind human and mice can react significantly differently to the same substance.

Okay thank you, I hope the riders are smart enough to stay away from this from now on

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Heavy jail terms probably wouldn't scare the top end of the dopers. A health warning from WADA will barely register.

Sky will continue to dominate with Froome leading the show.

 

[maxmartin]

Okay thank you, I hope the riders are smart enough to stay away from this from now on

that is why I opened this poll for fun

I am very keen to see SKY's performance after this very unusual health warning statement from WADA.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

rumor is significant risk of liver and stomach cancer, but I am not sure that is on mice model or human model or both. Keep in mind human and mice can react significantly differently to the same substance.

Interesting. I thought it sounded too good to be true.

How difficult is it to release a rumour like this that is patently false, purely to get a preferred response to the drug's use?

 

[coinneach]

This is just the sort of cheap thread that makes the Clinic so infuriating.

What has it got to do with Sky, more so than any other cycling team?

Weight loss??

I have often suggested Sky may be at the advanced edge of new, not yet illegal products, but there is f*** all at this stage to link them with this.

Mind you, it would help if they actually told us what medications they are taking

 

[DirtyWorks]

I defined "later in the year" as post-World Championships. After that, it will be back to normal for all of them.

We know Wiggo's going full-blast for the Giro and Froome-dog's going to go alien in June/July. After that, maybe one of those two will revisit the Vuelta. They will probably go on-cycle for the World Championships.

Are they sharing the same domestiques for their grand tour sports fraud?

 

[maxmartin]

Heavy jail terms probably wouldn't scare the top end of the dopers. A health warning from Wada will barely registers.

Sky will continue to dominate with Froome leading the show.

that is also quite possible, who cares cancer risk in later years, you probably will get cancer anyway

On the other hand, some people might be more afraid of cancer than jail time

 

[BroDeal]

Unless the bagman absconds with the cash meant for McQuaid, the team will continue to do what they are doing.

Hopefully Riis has fully debriefed Rogers.

 

[mastersracer]

These PPARdelta-agonists have been around for a long time. Validated tests to detect them (including GW501516) in human plasma were published back in 2009. No one has - as far as I am aware - even examined their efficacy in humans, let alone elite athletes. It's unclear to me if these would have any additive effects in elite athletes - typically the mouse studies involve untrained mice who undergo 4 weeks of moderate exercise compared to a group who get moderate exercise plus the drug and the latter group performs better/longer at the end of the 4 weeks. Just as using untrained athletes to make claims about elite performance is tenuous, so too is the inference to elite athletes here. Since they are exercise mimetics, it's unclear they would have an additive effect as the same pathways (AMPK etc.) were already being targeted near maximally by exercise. Some studies show they actually reduce markers and also could lead to cancer, including pancreatic.

These are available widely for purchase, so it's pretty dubious that if they are being used by professional riders that a single team would only possess them.

 

[maxmartin]

These are available widely for purchase, so it's pretty dubious that if they are being used by professional riders that a single team would only possess them.

Not true, there are not widely available for purchase. Sure you can buy it on black market. GW501516 was a developmental drug that was withdrawn from research by the pharmaceutical company and terminated when serious toxicities were discovered in pre-clinical studies.

http://www.toxicology.org/AI/Pub/Tox/2009Tox.pdf

Don't want to sound like a conspiracist, GSK is a British company

 

[BYOP88]

You become the ultimate Bertie fan.

 

[maxmartin]

These PPARdelta-agonists have been around for a long time. Validated tests to detect them (including GW501516) in human plasma were published back in 2009. No one has - as far as I am aware - even examined their efficacy in humans, let alone elite athletes. It's unclear to me if these would have any additive effects in elite athletes - typically the mouse studies involve untrained mice who undergo 4 weeks of moderate exercise compared to a group who get moderate exercise plus the drug and the latter group performs better/longer at the end of the 4 weeks. Just as using untrained athletes to make claims about elite performance is tenuous, so too is the inference to elite athletes here. Since they are exercise mimetics, it's unclear they would have an additive effect as the same pathways (AMPK etc.) were already being targeted near maximally by exercise. Some studies show they actually reduce markers and also could lead to cancer, including pancreatic.

These are available widely for purchase, so it's pretty dubious that if they are being used by professional riders that a single team would only possess them.

Oh yeah, WADA is is issuing a serious health warning statement about an ineffective PED that nobody is using. LMAF!!!

 

[BYOP88]

Does anyone know what health issues this drug causes?

You become the ultimate Bertie fan

 

[mastersracer]

Not true, there are not widely available for purchase. Sure you can buy it on black market. GW501516 was a developmental drug that was withdrawn from research by the pharmaceutical company and terminated when serious toxicities were discovered in pre-clinical studies.

http://www.toxicology.org/AI/Pub/Tox/2009Tox.pdf

Don't want to sound like a conspiracist, GSK is a British company

http://www.inhibitor2.com/gw501516-S1473.html?gclid=CJ6KgfXLkbYCFW3ZQgodF2oA9g

http://www.greatwhitepeptides.com/gw-501516-5mg-per-1ml-60ml.html

http://www.neobits.com/enzo_life_sc...html?atc=gbp&gclid=CI-k15fMkbYCFch7QgodjCMAcA

lots of bodybuilder blogs about it, including logs/reviews of users.
http://supplementreviews.com/forum/index.php?topic=21471.0