World Championships 2024: Men's Road Race (September 29)

[Escarabajo]

Just a comment about Sivakov. Pogi waited for him anyway. So Sivakov stayed at the front because of Pogi. Without him he would have been caught in no time. So working with Pogacar was the obvious option regardless of UAE. He has at least a minimal chance working with Pogi than not working for him. So there is that.

Last but not least, his manager at UAE was happy and that is more important.

 

[rokovski]

What pointless drama about Sivakov, like that time when Roglic in national kit didnt pulling for WvA? 😅

 

[RedheadDane]

What pointless drama about Sivakov, like that time when Roglic in national kit didnt pulling for WvA? 😅

Except... isn't it kinda reverse?
Sivakov - in French national kit - pulled for Pogacar - in Slovenian national kit - supposedly because they're trade-teammates.

 

[hayneplane]

To me it was very well helped with the situation of having Tratnik in the front group. Without Tratnik at this very crucial moment, besides having Sivakov doing pulls with him afterwards (French team manager can't be that happy about that one, but I bet Gianetti was) and the situation had been a pure solo race for Pogi, I'm of the conviction that the closing stages of the race would've been quite more delicate

The French didn’t have anyone behind who was a better medal chance than seeing if Sivakov hanging with Pogacar and helping a little could extend the gap and break the will of the chasers leading to a shot at Silver.

 

[rokovski]

Except... isn't it kinda reverse?
Sivakov - in French national kit - pulled for Pogacar - in Slovenian national kit - supposedly because they're trade-teammates.

Reverse, but same group of cycling enthusiasts have problem with it.
Sivakov was cooperating from far out, Roglis was supposed to do almost leadout to sprint.

 

[scribers]

Except... isn't it kinda reverse?
Sivakov - in French national kit - pulled for Pogacar - in Slovenian national kit - supposedly because they're trade-teammates.

You're severely oversimplifying this.

 

[RedheadDane]

You're severely oversimplifying this.

People definitely aren't mad that he didn't pull, while people were mad that Roglic didn't pull for WVA.

And then in regular races, where they ride for trade teams, some people get mad when compatriots don't even each other across teams.
There's always gonna be some people mad...

 

[scribers]

It is what it is. Pogi invited many along the road to stay with him. Including Bagioli who Pogi looked back on as if encouraging him to stay on and maybe pull a bit for their own chances.

 

[RedheadDane]

"Stay on" with Pogacar is probably easier said than done.
Hard to "stay on" when your legs are exploding*





*Figuretively speaking.

 

[KZD]

That I found your conjunction pointless, illustrating that by an analogous example, and so asked what your point was: "So?"

"Sure there are some that may not like but no one can deny that we are witnessing history."

How does the latter relate to the former? You say the two are in tension by using "but" as your conjunction.

If someone didn't like Armstrong's dominance of the 2004 Tour, what kind of rejoinder is it to say that a 6th Tour win was a historic feat? That does absolutely nothing to mitigate the dread of Armstrong's reign. When he took his 3rd stage win in a row by sprinting past Klöden (who ended up never winning a Tour stage), the day after catching Basso (2nd in GC) in the MTT, how is anyone going to dislike that any less because "we are witnessing history"?

No one has denied that it's a historic feat. You might as well say "no one can deny that he won solo". Duh. So what?

Wrong, there were several users during the race and after that were trying to downplay the race and the feat that Pogačar had just achieved. The expression that I used is often used in different contexts too.

But on your fourth paragraph you basically say why you are being so neatpicking, its because you are just unhappy that Pogačar has become world champion. If somebody else had written exactly the same about a great win from Boonen, Roglič or Vingegaard I am sure you wouldn't make any remark.

However like it or not, Pogačar is the World Champion and that is the reality that you and the haters will have to live with for the next 12 months.

 

[Netserk]

Wrong, there were several users during the race and after that were trying to downplay the race and the feat that Pogačar had just achieved. The expression that I used is often used in different contexts too.

But on your fourth paragraph you basically say why you are being so neatpicking, its because you are just unhappy that Pogačar has become world champion. If somebody else had written exactly the same about a great win from Boonen, Roglič or Vingegaard I am sure you wouldn't make any remark.

However like it or not, Pogačar is the World Champion and that is the reality that you and the haters will have to live with for the next 12 months.

You are the one coupling "some that may not like" and "we are witnessing history". You have still not explained how the latter mitigates the former.

I'm unhappy with how the race was decided, I'm not particularly unhappy with the winner. I really liked Ronde last year and how it was won, it was much better than this year's edition.

Do you think your logic applies to the analogous example of Armstrong? "Sure there are some that may not like but no one can deny that we are witnessing history." Why would it be relevant to the fact that some were unhappy with Armstrong's dominance in the 2004 Tour that he achieved something historic?

You are very much welcome to provide an example from this thread of someone denying that we witnessed something historic.

 

[Lequack]

Stephen Roche interview (in English)

Roche: ‘Zit nu in sandwich tussen Merckx en Pogacar, niet slecht’

Stephen Roche won de Giro, Tour en WK in 1987, nu verwelkomt hij Tadej Pogacar tot de zeer exclusieve 'Triple crown of cycling club'.

nos.nl

 

[Unchained]

The commentators here are trying to make the viewers think that what they watched was amazing. One of them even insisted it was the best world championship he could remember! I think it was one of the worst.

I think the coolest part about this, Pogacar, Remco, MvdP, all people racing, most pros and ex professionals including Eddy Merckx, Lance Armstrong all said that they witnessed something amazing!! I still am processing that Pog had the best in the world on the limit for hours ,solo..

 

[proffate]

Let's play the scenario where Mathieu and Remco chased Tadej and the three of them arrive at the last km. Mathieu would win the sprint with Tadej as second. Remco was doomed when he couldn't drop Mathieu.

depends on when they regrouped. If they're together with 20k to go then Remco can find some moment to attack and hope the others both watch each other.

 

[Unchained]

Its def is the mainstream view, look at the ratings which has never been better. Ofc most people like to watch the best cyclist possible battle it out over second tier riders fighting for sprints. Cycling is in a truly special era right now in terms of talent which are epic.

With ala carte TV and other media, I have people who rarely or never watch cycling enjoying races!! As you can more easily see all kinds of racing, fans are happy, many part timers are watching more racing.. And non fans are in a state of discovery and like what they have found. Special era indeed!!

 

[Danskebjerge]

I think the coolest part about this, Pogacar, Remco, MvdP, all people racing, most pros and ex professionals including Eddy Merckx, Lance Armstrong all said that they witnessed something amazing!!

And then the next questions are: Okay, "amazing", but was it exciting - is this the way we want a world championship race to be?

 

[hayneplane]

And then the next questions are: Okay, "amazing", but was it exciting - is this the way we want a world championship race to be?

Yes absolutely. This is the race that the Imola 2020 circuit could have provided but the riders and teams were still wedded to the old style of racing of waiting for the last lap.

Pogacar went with I think 42km and 2 laps to go but nobody went with him and he was nowhere near as strong as he is now.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Yes absolutely. This is the race that the Imola 2020 circuit could have provided but the riders and teams were still wedded to the old style of racing of waiting for the last lap.

Pogacar went with I think 42km and 2 laps to go but nobody went with him and he was nowhere near as strong as he is now.

Okay, then a 150 k solo break is next.

 

[Unchained]

e

And then the next questions are: Okay, "amazing", but was it exciting - is this the way we want a world championship race to be?
[/QUOTE
Each person enjoys a race, any race for different reasons,
When I saw gap keep going down, not dramatically, but I saw O'Connor, Remco, Mollema, MvdP in the chase, each pulling to some extent, I knew like all have said Pogacar had overplayed, dumb move, ultimately a loser and from experience,100 k out is usually suicide. So everything, everyone that should have happened didn't. I am glad Wout Van Aert and I were not in the same room for last @25 k because that was awesome bike racing by anyone in any era.
I honestly thought that they had him when gap went to @325 metres, but I was wrong, happily.
This type of story is how you sell bike racing.. Ben O'Connor being chased,an underdog by proven champion. Good Vuelta
Marked champion pissed off about Olympic national snafu, goes to Switzerland with something to prove. Most of the best showing up w jerseys, Olympic medals, national championships, GT podiums.. Decent script..
And hometown Swiss guy shows up coming off double trouble, signed with Swiss professional team, leaving behind Pogacar and UAE and coasting into Zurich with 5 consecutive professional victories.. none won in a sprint..
MvdP post race interview " I thought it was a stupid move, suicide, but for Pogacar, obviously not, the guy was brilliant " or something close to that..
So can he hold it from 100k..exciting to me personally, will he be caught and almost was exciting for me!!
And the rider from my town who I woke up to see, lost contact on lap five, ultimately DNF..

 

[Sciatic]

Both Remco and MvDP stated post race that they had a short chattering with each other when Pogi went and agreed that it was a suicide attack and they were sure Pogi would go stone cold at some moment.
It is, after all, a different level than the Strade Bianche (Pogi on beforehand pics a point +80km before the finish line and then carries it out on the roads).
Myself I was in doubt until after the last descent, i.e. just with 8-9 km to go, I was thinking "Pogi has this in his bag".

Ofc it was way too late for the other favourites to discover the danger, and using sticks for a festival of counter attacks on the last lap didn't do any good. If MvDP, Hirschi, Remco, Skuijns, Healey, O'Conner, Simmons had found an unbroken collaboration with e.g. 60km to go, then in my world they would have timed it, so Pogi was out of the game in the final. Was my POV right since Pogi decided for an exploration of a journey.

But luckily, bike racing doesn't work like that with personalities.
And instead we got a poundingly intense race with our nerves on the outside of our clothes until three quarters of the way into the last lap.

At least I had an exhillerating time.
I can read others, between the lines, comparing the WC RR with other races where Pogi has finished it from far away and therefore with 100km again writes "race decided, how boring".

I think it's a shame, because you miss a lot of good details that way.

Details that for me made this edition one of the very best since I begun following the men's WC RR in 1980 Sallanches.

Aside from claims about boring, which I don’t agree with as long as I’m still watching, I think there is a combination frustration/disappointment with Pogacar’s very long distance attacks. Mainly because of the exasperation a lot of us feel with the failure of collaboration in the chasing group. It’s become so predictable these last few years.

 

[Peyroteo94]

When they were cooperating, they gained 15 seconds, no more after that. They just weren't strong enough against the best engine in the world in this type of terrain.

 

[Sciatic]

When they were cooperating, they gained 15 seconds, no more after that. They just weren't strong enough against the best engine in the world in this type of terrain.

Just because we see a chasing group in a paceline for a stretch doesn’t mean they are really collaborating to catch an opponent, because every rider measures their effort against the others and takes a two-second pull and then pulls off. It merely keeps the time gap stable without significantly reducing it. Had MVDP, Remco, Skujins (sp), and Hirschi committed to drive the pace as long as they needed, they could have caught him. But that’s wishful thinking that will happen.

 

[Sciatic]

Just because we see a chasing group in a paceline for a stretch doesn’t mean they are really collaborating to catch an opponent, because every rider measures their effort against the others and takes a two-second pull and then pulls off. It merely keeps the time gap stable without significantly reducing it. Had MVDP, Remco, Skujins (sp), and Hirschi committed to drive the pace as long as they needed, they could have caught him. But that’s wishful thinking that will happen.

That it took the MVDP-Remco such a long time to catch Skujins and Healy demonstrated how poorly that Grp 3 was cooperating.

 

[DaLong]

Maybe people are too aerodynamic nowadays, let's throw some type of sail on everyone's bike (say, +.20 CdA) so the benefit of working together and staying in the pack once again proves fatal for the breakaway.

Alas, I was entertained - congrats to Pogacar.

 

[saunaking]

The only tactics in this race were bad tactics. Remco and MVDP should have been on Pogi's wheel every meter of this race, even when he was pissing in the bushes.