Your opinion - How many masters racers dope?

[nslckevin]

For starters, any answers of "all", 90%, or none will be ignored. I'm looking for serious opinions. But I'm also looking for opinions that are not ridiculous.

So, here are the questions.

What district/region/state do you race in?

Of the people who place top 10-20 fairly regularly in your region, what percent do YOU think are on dope?

Do you think masters women are doping also? If so, similar to the men, or less, or more?

Do you think it is more common in "baby masters" than the older racers?

Any other good questions that I over looked?

Here are my answers.

I race in Nor Cal.

I don't see anybody who based on results makes me suspicious. I suspect that there are a few, but it's not the guys who regularly beat me.

I would suspect that significantly less women dope.

If anybody in my district is on EPO I would assume them to be younger. I think that any older rider who is doping would lean towards the "anti-aging" methods like testosterone "replacement", etc.

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think that it's a big problem at the local level in my district.

Kevin Metcalfe

 

[Race Radio]

As percentage of all riders? It is small. Percentage of the top 10....depends on the race, but much higher.

If you want "Top Fuel" masters racing go to Italy and ride a Gran Fondo. Absurd levels from 40-50 year old guys. It is no surprise that most customers of the recent busts of PED distribution rings were masters. 25% of the tests at the Maratona this year were positive, this was all from masters at the front of the field, including the winner of the Woman's race

Spain, Italy, France, Portugal, Germany, over a dozen busts of various rings in the last year....all focused on masters riders.

I am not as connected to the US scene but know a number of guys use this place
http://www.cenegenics.com/

Customers include a couple of former Pro's as well as team sponsor.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Don't know.
New South Wales, Australia
A few years ago had a masters team mate go positive and get a 2 year ban. That sucked for a range of reasons.

 

[ramjambunath]

Without any proper evidence, any number, be it 100% or 10%, would just be an insinuation against a part of the peloton.

Of course, regular and systematic doping can not be written off and would likely take place.

 

[Oldman]

The Pacific NW is considered generally clean although there have been some busts. I'd judge a fairly small amount to be suspect and here's the sad part; they are not necessarily winning. They're just a bit stronger than they were. The track scene here is pretty friendly.
Can't say much about BC as the economy has kept folks more local.

 

[craig1985]

I have no idea, but I would go with my hunch and say no. I did see a few blokes with some large arms and legs, like they had been hitting the gym hard, but when the road goes uphill they get dropped pretty quickly.

 

[MrMaillot]

A very small percentage compared to the Juniors.

 

[bobbins]

There were one or two funny shaped masters on the podium at the worlds in sydney a couple of years ago. I think its more of a problem in aus /us than europe, no evidence to back that up, just gut feel based on racing experiences.

 

[Boeing]

It is more common then some might think.

But a good question for the 50+ guys is this: Is testosterone doping? because there are medical reasons to take it over 50 at least

 

[BroDeal]

I figure that everyone faster than me must be doping. That's a big percentage.

 

[BotanyBay]

I think the percentage for EPO / CERA is fairly small, and here is why:

- We haven't had enough "morgue cases" (yet).

But Floyd's case did a lot to boost the popularity of testosterone, and I think that compound's number is getting higher.

People who are narccissistic enough to juice with EPO / CERA are also generally narccissistic enough to think they can handle managing the science on their own. "Who needs a doctor? I'm smart enough to self-administer"

Ergo, when I hear about more riders ending up on a cold stainless steel table (as most people are (generally) knuckleheads), I'll start to think the problem is more pervasive.

As for now, it is the wealthy narccissists who have either MD degrees or MD friends who are doing it.

 

[usedtobefast]

a lot of guys are using testosterone these days. for a variety of reasons.
like it or not, this area is a hotbed for it. no testing really,so it is a free for all.

 

[nslckevin]

It is more common then some might think.

But a good question for the 50+ guys is this: Is testosterone doping? because there are medical reasons to take it over 50 at least

Yes, taking testosterone is doping. Even if your levels are low. That would be the official WADA/USADA answer, but it is also my "moral compass" answer. I can't see how that would be any different than taking EPO to get your hematocrit up when it's "too low".

I would bet that if you tested every single racer above say 45 years old this would be one of the most common positives. (If they used the test to check for external testosterone.) I would also bet that a fair amount would be shocked to find that they were "cheating". No excuse, but probably true.

 

[Bertie]

East coast, dont know anyone or suspect anyone, but clearly we have had one or two in the past few years, but they have either been in their 30's which isnt a Master in my book in any case, or being on the track which I dont do.

 

[Le breton]

It is more common then some might think.

But a good question for the 50+ guys is this: Is testosterone doping? because there are medical reasons to take it over 50 at least

Like what reason? Of course, taking testosterone is doping, it's not a question of age. Besides, why would you want to increase the odds in favor of the "crab"?

 

[gobuck]

I have raced in New England since 1986 and have seen some things that looked fishy. I have to say that I doubt many are charging. Nobody stands out as being that much better than the other "top guys".
The top guys have been the top guys for a long time and I would bet that nobody would be taking something for 25 years.

 

[Oldman]

It is more common then some might think.

But a good question for the 50+ guys is this: Is testosterone doping? because there are medical reasons to take it over 50 at least

Yes. And the option is offered by far more physicians than I'd like to see. At least two doctors (the only two I've seen aside from orthopedic surgeons) have suggested that it was appropriate; one said it wouldn't be cheating because it was "restoration of natural levels". Neither tested for my natural levels before offering the suggestion telling me there is a large push from Pharm reps to sell it.

 

[Boeing]

please don't put words in my mouth when replying to a post of mine. I respect your opinions however

just a question and no I dont want to

 

[Boeing]

Like what reason? Of course, taking testosterone is doping, it's not a question of age. Besides, why would you want to increase the odds in favor of the "crab"?

well lets just say male vitality is a huge industry and I know personally here in socal guys 50+ who get scrips for it based on that reason but think it improves their cycling

because I am not a doctor and will not try to play one on the internet a quick google gave me this

"Testosterone deficiency, which becomes more common with age, is linked not only to decreased libido but also to a number of medical problems. These include the metabolic syndrome a cluster of metabolic risk factors that increase the chances of developing heart disease, stroke and type 2 diabetes. Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, also called a fatty liver, commonly co-occurs with the metabolic syndrome and may aggravate the metabolic problems. To receive a diagnosis of the metabolic syndrome, patients must have three of the following five risk factors: abdominal obesity (a large waist line), low HDL ("good") cholesterol, high triglycerides (fats in the blood), high blood pressure and high blood sugar."

just a question not supporting doping fyi

 

[Michele]

So, here are the questions.

What district/region/state do you race in? Italy

Of the people who place top 10-20 fairly regularly in your region, what percent do YOU think are on dope? A couple but some are more than obvious with dodgy past.

Do you think masters women are doping also? If so, similar to the men, or less, or more? In circuit races not much, in granfondo it could be the case.

Do you think it is more common in "baby masters" than the older racers? Nop.

 

[alanshearer]

I wouldn't have any idea what the percentage is, but I suspect it's small.

But I think a distinction needs to be made between those that intentionally dope (i.e., take substances they know are prohibited and do it for performance enhancing purposes) and those that take something because they are ignorant of the rules, don't know the list, don't monitor ingredients or supplements, etc.

I suscpect a good number of masters and others that may not be riding at a professional level consider a banned substance something you have to go out of your way (in an underhanded manner) to get. They simply don't consider that over-the-counter medications or supplements that you get at a nutritional store as things that could possibly be banned. In their minds, this may be consider as much a part of a healthy lifestyle as their participation in the sport.

That's not to say it's an excuse or that they shouldn't be held accountable. Afterall, they agree to the same commitment when the get their annual license. But I think there is a moral distinction between the two.

 

[ihatehills]

Lot's of talk about riders doping.
What about all the people racing on bikes they know are underweight?
Or not UCI compliant? IE the 3:1 rule?

 

[nslckevin]

Lot's of talk about riders doping.
What about all the people racing on bikes they know are underweight?
Or not UCI compliant? IE the 3:1 rule?

USA Cycling has so for decided not to enforce 3:1 at masters nationals. I assume that their line if thinking is that is some poor sap dropped $5k+ for a Specialized Shiv after watching Cancellara use one to win world's it is not helpful to tell him or her that they can't use that bike. I am sure that will change at some point. I have a Transition with the Zipp Vukka bars. Each year I make sure I find out if I need to change bars and/or shave off the little fins on the down tube

As for weight? The only time I've seen it enforced was of all places track nationals in 2008. Lots of guys with totally normal bikes had to add weight to their track bikes to make weight. It seems stupid to have the same limit for track bikes as road bikes! As for road bikes, I do know guys with uber light bikes. When they go to nationals or world's they are always prepared to bring it up to weight if it is going to be enforced, like I said, I've never seen a bike get weighed at road nationals or in Austria the one time I went to world's in 2007.

Personally, I don't get too worked up about that kind of stuff though. I consider it pretty unlikely that somebody is going to win or lose a TT based on having a legal vs illegal Zipp aero bar for instance. And while I consider myself pretty lean (~8-10%), until I get down around 5%, any weight disadvantage I might have can be cured at the dinner table and save me money vs costing me thousands!

Kevin

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

It seems stupid to have the same limit for track bikes as road bikes!

When you consider that you can be pulling 2 - 2.5 G in the bends at sprint speeds, I'm not so sure it's that dumb. If anything, track bikes should require greater structural integrity than their road cousins.

Whether a weight limit is the right way to do that I'm not overly convinced but I don't buy the argument that track bikes should necessarily be lighter just because they don't have the running gear a road bike does.

 

[Berzin]

I have raced in New England since 1986 and have seen some things that looked fishy. I have to say that I doubt many are charging. Nobody stands out as being that much better than the other "top guys".
The top guys have been the top guys for a long time and I would bet that nobody would be taking something for 25 years.

You're missing the point. A rider can be average to good, but as he gets older there's no way he can sustain the same speed as a rider in their twenties and thirties. Eventually the older you get the slower you get. That's life.

I know guys who haven't gotten any faster during the years they've been riding from ages 45-55, but have maintained the same speed and weekly mileage.

That is impossible without PED's.